Windsor Spitfires 2018 Offseason Thread

[hockeylegend11]

Kari Piiroinen and Xavier Medina are great steps towards that building process. Sorry I am just not sold on Baier, I would like to be proven wrong this season, to me that is a fair perspective.

Guess we will have to see how Piiroinen and Medina play at camp.
And because I have spoken to a couple of players Baier has the confidence of his teammates,they know what he went through last season,one can't discount team unity which usually ignores public perception, can't say I blame them.
That being said sets things up for a great camp, interesting to say the least.

 

[ohloutsider]

Spits have a good problem to have - they have lots of good goalie prospects coming to camp - now if they could just figure out who is going to score goals at the other end.

 

[tomschman]

The Baier situation has been a curious one. He looked good at camp, won the backup job and then got very little opportunity to play. He didn't play that well in his opportunities and when DiPietro went to Team Canada camp, Patton become the starter. While I agree that neither Baier or Patton instill a great deal of confidence with me, I don't see how anyone can dismiss Patton. Last December, he had was clearly given the nod over Baier. At this point, it appears that Piiroinen and Medina are the future and either Baier or Patton are just fillers for a year until Medina arrives in 2019-2020.

As far as Henault, I prefer him on a rebuilding team as a 17 year old over Stevenson as a 19 year old. On a potential contender, my opinion would be different, though I am not sure Stevenson would be top 6 (especially as a 19yo) on a contender.

 

[TheGremlin]

At this point i’d rather keep Mikey until trade deadline with Piiroinen as his backup so he can learn from one of the best instead of learning the ropes from Baier. Once Mikey is traded then we can have Medina backup rest of year and then those 2 battle for the job the next year.

 

[ohloutsider]

The Baier situation has been a curious one. He looked good at camp, won the backup job and then got very little opportunity to play. He didn't play that well in his opportunities and when DiPietro went to Team Canada camp, Patton become the starter. While I agree that neither Baier or Patton instill a great deal of confidence with me, I don't see how anyone can dismiss Patton. Last December, he had was clearly given the nod over Baier. At this point, it appears that Piiroinen and Medina are the future and either Baier or Patton are just fillers for a year until Medina arrives in 2019-2020.

As far as Henault, I prefer him on a rebuilding team as a 17 year old over Stevenson as a 19 year old. On a potential contender, my opinion would be different, though I am not sure Stevenson would be top 6 (especially as a 19yo) on a contender.

I'm actually surprised we have not seen anymore discussion on Stevenson here - I agree being 19 he may very well be a tradeable asset in January but don't see him as a "need to keep" guy. He is a good/average OHL player but his age plays against him. I would say that Sirman, Stevenson and Angle won't be here after January and 1 or more of them may be moved early on. I also agree that Henault needs to make the team but if all is equal them you keep the younger player, being 16 last year this becomes the year he needs to find his way. Look at the leap Corcoran made this past year - maybe Henault has the same improvement this year?

 

[hockeylegend11]

I'm actually surprised we have not seen anymore discussion on Stevenson here - I agree being 19 he may very well be a tradeable asset in January but don't see him as a "need to keep" guy. He is a good/average OHL player but his age plays against him. I would say that Sirman, Stevenson and Angle won't be here after January and 1 or more of them may be moved early on. I also agree that Henault needs to make the team but if all is equal them you keep the younger player, being 16 last year this becomes the year he needs to find his way. Look at the leap Corcoran made this past year - maybe Henault has the same improvement this year?

You ask the staff and they will tell you
that Stevenson was the most consistent dman in the playoffs vs Sarnia,a plus player who did a good bit of everything.
To me he is a keeper would not trade him I have him as an o/a next year.
The other 2 that you mentioned Sirman and Angle I can see 1 or both gone by January.

 

[member 71782]

Stevenson or any other 18, 19 and 20 year olds have to provide more value to the team going forward than they will in a trade while not negatively impacting development of the 16 and 17 year olds who will be the core going forward.

What type of return does Stevenson provide in a trade, this year or next?

Does him playing nightly stifle the development of someone younger who will be expected to play a role when Windsor should be ready to make a run and he has aged out of the league?

Does he bring enough to the table to justify keeping him around this year and risk lowering potential trade returns next year? Flip side of this does he have the potential to increase his value in any possible deal next year staying in Windsor in a more prominent role this year.

This is why I wanted to see Windsor bring more kids from the system up last year instead of bringing in lower level players through trades etc. This is a chance to create value from prior picks in the early stages of a rebuild without spending assets on lower level players to fill a role for a year or two. I liked the team bringing him up last year but now its time to evaluate his max value to the team.

Stevenson is a chance to possibly add assets, not high end if they sign a higher potential, younger D prospect who can play in the top 6 full time this year.

Any player in his situation this year or next should definitely be considered for trades if it is doubtful they will be here as OA when they should be ready to make a run in 2020/21.

Can he return a mid round pick or two if Windsor can replace him from within or with a younger player as part of the return for someone else versus what's his value as an OA next year if he can improve and Windsor doesn't have a legitimate option to replace him with someone younger?

 

[ohloutsider]

You ask the staff and they will tell you
that Stevenson was the most consistent dman in the playoffs vs Sarnia,a plus player who did a good bit of everything.
To me he is a keeper would not trade him I have him as an o/a next year.
The other 2 that you mentioned Sirman and Angle I can see 1 or both gone by January.

Not going to argue his value last year - big issue is where he fits by age with their "go for it year". He ages out next year so him along with Boka/Purboo and DiPietro are all in a position to be moved to help build assets for the "go for it year". It is not a slight on Stevenson or others just a reality of their age.
Cfaub - best guess for Stevenson would be a 4th or 3rd round pick depending on his first 30 games - next year it would be a 8th or 9th. That could rise as well depending what type of year he has if he does stay.

 

[OHLTG]

Stevenson strikes me as the player who is more valuable to the Spitfires than any asset we could realistically get for him (probably 5-8th round pick?). That said, if it's between him and, say, Henault or another 01 defenceman, the youth has to take over.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Is Kari Piiroinen reporting to Spitfires?
There's only few weeks for August so something should be decided already.

 

[randomhero4life]

Is Kari Piiroinen reporting to Spitfires?
There's only few weeks for August so something should be decided already.

According to Warren Rychel he will be reporting.

 

[member 71782]

Not going to argue his value last year - big issue is where he fits by age with their "go for it year". He ages out next year so him along with Boka/Purboo and DiPietro are all in a position to be moved to help build assets for the "go for it year". It is not a slight on Stevenson or others just a reality of their age.
Cfaub - best guess for Stevenson would be a 4th or 3rd round pick depending on his first 30 games - next year it would be a 8th or 9th. That could rise as well depending what type of year he has if he does stay.

If Windsor could get a third for him I wouldn't think twice, take it.

I was figuring somewhere in the 5th to 7th round, maybe a 6th and a 9th it would require weighing all options.

If he returned a third then I would definitely see more value in the pick than keeping him around. As I said, I liked the idea of Windsor giving him a shot as an 18 year old without using any assets and he did a decent job, no issues with that but his age and Windsor's projected timeframe makes him and others questionable in where their value going forward lies.

I can see this same discussion coming around again next year with this years crop of 18 year olds unless Windsor shows the chance to take a big jump next year and be better than expected. That's a conversation for another time though, see how they make out this season first.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Is Kari Piiroinen reporting to Spitfires?
There's only few weeks for August so something should be decided already.[/QUOTE

It's been decided,his billets are in place,he is not expected to be in town till later in August after the -18 tourney playing for Finland.
Toss in the fact Piiroinen has the same agent as former Spitfire Mikhail Sergachev so no issues here.

 

[tomschman]

You ask the staff and they will tell you
that Stevenson was the most consistent dman in the playoffs vs Sarnia,a plus player who did a good bit of everything.
To me he is a keeper would not trade him I have him as an o/a next year.
The other 2 that you mentioned Sirman and Angle I can see 1 or both gone by January.

My original point was Henault vs Stevenson. The next time that the Spits could contend is 2020-2021. In 2020-2021, Stevenson will be done while Henault will be a 19yo. If it comes down to keeping one or the other, it seems that Henault has more potential value to the future of the team. Both will be in their 2nd year in the league this year, so experience wise they are similar. I would give Angle more consideration than Sirman because he is a year younger. But, if it doesn't look like Angle will develop into a solid OA in 2 years, I wouldn't keep him either if there is a younger alternative.

 

[hockeylegend11]

My original point was Henault vs Stevenson. The next time that the Spits could contend is 2020-2021. In 2020-2021, Stevenson will be done while Henault will be a 19yo. If it comes down to keeping one or the other, it seems that Henault has more potential value to the future of the team. Both will be in their 2nd year in the league this year, so experience wise they are similar. I would give Angle more consideration than Sirman because he is a year younger. But, if it doesn't look like Angle will develop into a solid OA in 2 years, I wouldn't keep him either if there is a younger alternative.

I agree about Angle,as it relates to Sirman and also possible o/a situation down the road,as for Stevenson or Henault, don't think anything will happen regarding either one till the end of this season.I am in the camp that the Spits will contend in 19/20 and the run year the year after,and I can see the Spits getting more value as a player in Stevenson for the contend year as an OA, while Henault would
be replaced by one of Robinson or Shier down the road.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

If a kid makes his bed like he's asked to, do you shrug and say "meh, it's fodder" and walk away? Nah. You say "cool, I appreciate it. Onto the next..."

I don't think you truly understand the definition of fodder. The fodder is people that talk about how said player is in the best shape of his life. Such as you spooning up the talk of Baier being in great shape. What matters most is how he rebounds from a poor season. I appreciate how you act oblivious to my example, bravo.........

 

[hockeylegend11]

At this point i’d rather keep Mikey until trade deadline with Piiroinen as his backup so he can learn from one of the best instead of learning the ropes from Baier. Once Mikey is traded then we can have Medina backup rest of year and then those 2 battle for the job the next year.

Would be surprised if Dipietro lasts till December when World Jrs tryouts occur, highly expect him to be moved before then.
As for when he leaves, would rather have a veteran then a 17 year old and 16 year around in goal,the most important position in today's game, whether said vet
splits playing time or not with Piiroinen.
As mentioned before let Medina play alot in the Detriot area,he next year can come in and compete with the Finn
Besides it gets tiresome reading about lack of playoff success, especially mentioning after this season when the team moved most of their top end assets for future, imagine had they kept everyone,won a round then lose,the harpening would have been relentless.
Got to keep experience around in all areas to achieve success.
Medina may get his time,no need to rush.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Would be surprised if Dipietro lasts till December when World Jrs tryouts occur, highly expect him to be moved before then.
As for when he leaves, would rather have a veteran then a 17 year old and 16 year around in goal,the most important position in today's game, whether said vet
splits playing time or not with Piiroinen.
As mentioned before let Medina play alot in the Detriot area,he next year can come in and compete with the Finn
Besides it gets tiresome reading about lack of playoff success, especially mentioning after this season when the team moved most of their top end assets for future, imagine had they kept everyone,won a round then lose,the harpening would have been relentless.
Got to keep experience around in all areas to achieve success.
Medina may get his time,no need to rush.

Here's the rub I can count 4 out of the past 7 where the franchise decided to sell off their most talented players.

Year 1 Campbell, Kuhnackl
Year 2 Ho-Sang
Year 3 Rychel Ebert
Year 4 this past season

You spout cycles but proper cycles don't include moving your best players in 4 out of 7 seasons and now people are talking about DiPietro that would be 5 of 8. There's a reason for all this mass movement over those seasons and you can ignore it but it's still there. The biggest reason is Rychel for the success of Memorial Cups has never grasped the model of being consistently good year to year, having enough in the cupboard to withstand graduation and still be a good team year to year. Some love the all or nothing model but it only lasts for so long and to the point where he throws shade at fans at the end of the year. Warren has nobody to answer to in the organization to the point nobody has the ability to hold him accountable.

 

[OHLTG]

Just because you deal a veteran or two in multiple seasons doesn't make them two different rebuilds. Campbell and Kuhnhackl came right after the OS playoffs, which signaled the start of that rebuild. Ho-Sang wasn't a rebuild. Rychel/Ebert were more of a "we're not going to beat the powerhouse Guelph, so let's help the boys out" than a true rebuild. That season saw three absolute dynamic teams and, despite the Spitfires' moderate success, they knew there wasn't much they could do. This past season, dealing Luchuk, Day, Vilardi, McEneny, and Brown - that's a clear-cut rebuild. Dealing DiPietro in the near future won't signal the start of yet another rebuild, but a continuation of the one that started last season. I think most fans realize that the deal is coming and a new era is underway. You could still see a veteran or two dealt, depending on how the youth develop, but that doesn't mean "here we go again."

 

[member 71782]

Would be surprised if Dipietro lasts till December when World Jrs tryouts occur, highly expect him to be moved before then.
As for when he leaves, would rather have a veteran then a 17 year old and 16 year around in goal,the most important position in today's game, whether said vet
splits playing time or not with Piiroinen.
As mentioned before let Medina play alot in the Detriot area,he next year can come in and compete with the Finn
Besides it gets tiresome reading about lack of playoff success, especially mentioning after this season when the team moved most of their top end assets for future, imagine had they kept everyone,won a round then lose,the harpening would have been relentless.
Got to keep experience around in all areas to achieve success.
Medina may get his time,no need to rush.

I don't know anyone who had a problem with this past season considering the situation they were in with assets.

The problem is since this group took over the team their percentage of winning one round in the playoffs is about .333.

That is the problem.

For all the success they've had, and no one is taking away from that success but four seasons they've won one round or more in the playoffs, and there were six or seven years between the third year they did it and the fourth year.

People want to see a consistent product knowing that not every year they are going to win a championship and yes, they could miss the playoffs once in a while. If the organization is run as great as you think they should not only make the playoffs most of the time but they should be winning at least a round most years as well.

What I think most people would find consistent, make the playoffs at least four of every five years and win at least one round in three of those years. When they have the line up and the assets to make a run, go for it but don't build for three or four years of mediocrity and then hope everything comes together for one good year.

And the longest stretch of lack of playoff success, regardless of sanctions Rychel acquired and used as quick as he acquired a lot of assets with zero success to show for it until 2017.

You always talk about wanting to drop this subject but you always poke and prod until someone bites. I'm sure you won't be disappointed, people get tired of being poked and will bite so obviously you as much as anyone else wants to keep the negative debate going.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Cfaub

You missed my point, clearly more then one person had a problem with Windsor not winning a round this past season when they said now it's 7 straight seasons without winning a playoff round,and I said if Windsor didn't sell off Dipietro not withstanding won a round or 2,they would have been castigated for not looking at the future,so there is no winning here, that is my point re negativity,they dumped off when they moved Ebert and Rychel and it payed off in 2017,heck they moved Neuvirth in 08,and wound up winning in 9 and 10,with the contributions of Shugg and Mitchell,et all,yet all that gets is yeah they won fine we won't give too much credit we will give more venomous towards the non successful seasons.
This is why I said no one at the rink this season mentioned the lack of playoff success, probably because they had just won a cup,and now were
starting the process of a rebuild.
Except on here, that's the negativity I rail against.
In my view regardless of playoff success the last rebuild was a success,they won a National Championship,and for me that's what I wanted.
I know you won't agree,u will think it's ok this past season to count as the 7th season in a row of no playoff success, knowing full well the reason it occurred,like I said no winning with the negative posters,my view can't have it both ways.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Just because you deal a veteran or two in multiple seasons doesn't make them two different rebuilds. Campbell and Kuhnhackl came right after the OS playoffs, which signaled the start of that rebuild. Ho-Sang wasn't a rebuild. Rychel/Ebert were more of a "we're not going to beat the powerhouse Guelph, so let's help the boys out" than a true rebuild. That season saw three absolute dynamic teams and, despite the Spitfires' moderate success, they knew there wasn't much they could do. This past season, dealing Luchuk, Day, Vilardi, McEneny, and Brown - that's a clear-cut rebuild. Dealing DiPietro in the near future won't signal the start of yet another rebuild, but a continuation of the one that started last season. I think most fans realize that the deal is coming and a new era is underway. You could still see a veteran or two dealt, depending on how the youth develop, but that doesn't mean "here we go again."

OHLTG

Excellent post,every point you made is correct and that's how or why things went down.

 

[stips]

WR has done a great job of winning the ultimate prize! He did not draft properly for a couple of years (Kirby occupied), and that set the Spits back big time. Things seem to have settled, and the new management model has the team moving in the right direction. WR is often abrasive, but he knows what he is doing. I trust he will get a king's ransom for DiPietro, and the rebuild will be completed.

Last year the Spitfires were a very hard working team. When you watched a game you usually "got your money's worth". Most fans are very excited to see what happens this year, and can't wait for a tremendously competitive camp.

 

[windsor7]

I don't know anyone who had a problem with this past season considering the situation they were in with assets.

The problem is since this group took over the team their percentage of winning one round in the playoffs is about .333.

That is the problem.

For all the success they've had, and no one is taking away from that success but four seasons they've won one round or more in the playoffs, and there were six or seven years between the third year they did it and the fourth year.

People want to see a consistent product knowing that not every year they are going to win a championship and yes, they could miss the playoffs once in a while. If the organization is run as great as you think they should not only make the playoffs most of the time but they should be winning at least a round most years as well.

What I think most people would find consistent, make the playoffs at least four of every five years and win at least one round in three of those years. When they have the line up and the assets to make a run, go for it but don't build for three or four years of mediocrity and then hope everything comes together for one good year.

And the longest stretch of lack of playoff success, regardless of sanctions Rychel acquired and used as quick as he acquired a lot of assets with zero success to show for it until 2017.

You always talk about wanting to drop this subject but you always poke and prod until someone bites. I'm sure you won't be disappointed, people get tired of being poked and will bite so obviously you as much as anyone else wants to keep the negative debate going.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Stips

Excellent post
I too am forward to training camp
should be very competitive,a sign of more depth in the organization.
With 19 regulars from last season returning I see the following players looking to gain a spot

Goalies- Piiroinen,Medina
Defense- Evans,Yelle, Johnston, Robinson
Forwards-Foudy,Frasca, McDonald,
Brimmer, Andrews, Lemmer, Kelly
Now I think Foudy,Frasca, Piiroinen and Evans would be locks, assuming Evans signs, McDonald as well being signed gets my 5th spot.
If Tanner Kelly shows,and signs I think he is a lock too,Spits will have to do some paring up front if all this occurs, Henault would battle Yelle and perhaps Johnston for the 7th spot
Also very curious what Brimmer,Andrews and Lemmer will show, Brimmer was solid last year,was offered a contract but didn't want to play in Chatham, Andrews played very well in JrB for a bad team and averaged a point a game,though his skating is a drawback,but he can score, while Cade Lemmer is a bull in a China shop with nice skills.
Like I said looking forward to seeing how things go