Windsor Spitfires 2018-19 Season Thread
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Your last post was terrific CFaub. Fans can take pride winning the Memorial Cup the way that they did but that road will never happen again in Windsor for another 20+ years. Heck the only way they could go through the back door again is if they lost in the OHL Championship to the host. At least in that scenario they actually would have won 12 playoff games and won the western conference.
Only 1 time in the last 14 seasons has a team worse than a 2 seed in either conference won the OHL title and that was in 15-16 with London who tied with Erie for the division title but lost the tiebreaker hence being dropped to a 3 seed so even that year they still had tied for most points in the OHL. That is an absolute fact and a trend.
The longer the playoff run, the more fans to go through the gates, the more money the organization makes. Like I said earlier fans are much smarter than ever before they pretty much know if you're a 4 seed or worse the best case scenario is maybe getting into the 2nd round.
The bottom line for some fans is quite possibly they don't pay for many tickets or go free so they don't actually have to invest their money in that product. The bottom line has been hurting they have lost 1000 sth over the past 6 seasons if that has to hurt the bottom line. If their model is just to go for it every few years and take the hit in the form of lack of money coming in that's a very poor model and certainly not sustainable in the long term. Heck I got a call around a week ago asking if I wanted to re-up my st that I gave up after 2011. They asked why not and I gave them an answer and wanted to ask them a question but they couldn't answer it.
The talk of opinion/fact/rumor mongering is hilarious when names of players from opposing teams are mentioned that's really low.
The last part is key if you want the fans to come out make the product appealing. I find it funny that people want to criticize the public for not investing their money for a team that hasn't provided much beyond the 68 games for the past several seasons.
Only 1 time in the last 14 seasons has a team worse than a 2 seed in either conference won the OHL title and that was in 15-16 with London who tied with Erie for the division title but lost the tiebreaker hence being dropped to a 3 seed so even that year they still had tied for most points in the OHL. That is an absolute fact and a trend.
The longer the playoff run, the more fans to go through the gates, the more money the organization makes. Like I said earlier fans are much smarter than ever before they pretty much know if you're a 4 seed or worse the best case scenario is maybe getting into the 2nd round.
The bottom line for some fans is quite possibly they don't pay for many tickets or go free so they don't actually have to invest their money in that product. The bottom line has been hurting they have lost 1000 sth over the past 6 seasons if that has to hurt the bottom line. If their model is just to go for it every few years and take the hit in the form of lack of money coming in that's a very poor model and certainly not sustainable in the long term. Heck I got a call around a week ago asking if I wanted to re-up my st that I gave up after 2011. They asked why not and I gave them an answer and wanted to ask them a question but they couldn't answer it.
The talk of opinion/fact/rumor mongering is hilarious when names of players from opposing teams are mentioned that's really low.
The last part is key if you want the fans to come out make the product appealing. I find it funny that people want to criticize the public for not investing their money for a team that hasn't provided much beyond the 68 games for the past several seasons.
OHLTG
Registered User
Not everyone goes to the hockey games just for the winning, though.
Nelli
Couldn't quote your post but I remember hearing something like that.
Like I said, had the chance to meet him a couple of times when I was much younger. First time I remember thinking not him but afterwards what I do remember was he was just a real nice guy. Still joined in the waterboy chants but it was all good.
What I did appreciate is as the league grew, became bigger he slowly became just another fixture of another team. There were a lot of years I didn't go to games but when I started again he was mainly in the background doing his job.
Couldn't quote your post but I remember hearing something like that.
Like I said, had the chance to meet him a couple of times when I was much younger. First time I remember thinking not him but afterwards what I do remember was he was just a real nice guy. Still joined in the waterboy chants but it was all good.
What I did appreciate is as the league grew, became bigger he slowly became just another fixture of another team. There were a lot of years I didn't go to games but when I started again he was mainly in the background doing his job.
True for a minority but most are looking for the team to win.
The average family isn't going to spend that kind of money on a night out without hoping the team wins.
At the same time the average fan isn't going to continue buying season tickets if they see one losing season after another.
Hardcore fans?
Sure, they will mostly be there through thick and thin unless the organization itself becomes an issue, looking at the previous one to see what happened there.
OHLTG
Registered User
Let me clarify - you want to see winning, but it shouldn't be the sole reason you go. There's much more involved than "they're winning so let's go watch."
For hardcore fans who's first priority is the team, I agree most of them feel that way.
They don't make up the majority of the fanbase though.
Many people want the game day experience so to speak, what would those people have done back in the day when the game was the whole experience, but regardless of that how many people prioritize their kid maybe being on the jumbotron, spending another $100 or so on food and souvenirs, enjoy non stop ads and gimmicks between every whistle after spending around a $100 to get in the door over winning the game?
All of that is complimentary to the game itself, not the priority.
Long time friends who are also long time STH can just as easily get together on game night elsewhere if they become dissatisfied with the product and if numbers are dropping that is probably what's happening.
If team success is trumped by everything else then the team doesn't have a fanbase they have people who just want to be seen and once again, being seen at a game only carries significance if its a full building.
Hardcore fans as I said, they will always be there in good times and bad, they're great to have but there's not enough of them to pay the bills.
Correct if the casual fan is going to a game that person just wants to have a good time because they probably do it once a year or so.
Need to keep perspective that as much as the CHL is the top league as far as putting players in the NHL. Overall it's still a niche sport and based upon the community supporting a local team. Teams have limited budgets, difficult time marketing the product in down times certainly and the best way to continue the fans coming in is being successful as a franchise.
As time goes on fans buying habits change, priorities change and they want to see what they're putting their money towards. They see a franchise with the only success over the past 7 seasons a great week of hockey that culminated in a Memorial Cup. That was probably bigger for the franchise than it was for fans investing their money. You can't tell me for a moment that Rychel isn't bothered by the lack of success after the regular season is done because that effects his bottom line as well. The problem is he decided to take his frustration out on the fans and as the saying goes when you point your finger at people there 100 pointing right back at you.
OHLTG
Registered User
Winning is a part of it; if you're winning 15-games a year and not caring to improve the product, you're going to lose even the hardcore fans. But that's not the case. I just don't believe winning is the sole reason people go, nor should it be.
There are multiple ways to look at that entire situation. One of them is this franchise does whatever it takes to win, and, if I'm a prospect, I appreciate that.
I think the lack of playoff success is a non factor when it comes to the attendance.
As mentioned before not 1 person at the rink has ever said anything about it, I am thinking very recent Mem Cup success has alot to with it.
If the narrative that is being presented is so true then explain to me why only 7 teams in the entire 20 team league increased their average attendance this season and only 3 were in the West.
Here are differences from this past year and 2016/17 season attendance numbers
London (-44)
Kitchener (-93)
Windsor (-260)
Erie(-600)
SSM (+223)
Sarnia (+135)
Owen Sound (+152)
Saginaw (-100)
Guelph (-92)
Flint (-85)
East
Kingston (-244)
Ottawa (-21)
Mississauga (+81)
Hamilton (+137)
Oshawa (-186)
North Bay (-216)
Sudbury (-284)
Niagara (+51)
Barrie (-208)
Peterborough (+525)
More then anything it's the style of play the league currently embraces along with ticket/ concession prices too high in many team locations.
Coming off a Mem Cup win,plus a hard working team last year,I heard zero talk of lack of playoff success as a reason for staying away.
As mentioned before not 1 person at the rink has ever said anything about it, I am thinking very recent Mem Cup success has alot to with it.
If the narrative that is being presented is so true then explain to me why only 7 teams in the entire 20 team league increased their average attendance this season and only 3 were in the West.
Here are differences from this past year and 2016/17 season attendance numbers
London (-44)
Kitchener (-93)
Windsor (-260)
Erie(-600)
SSM (+223)
Sarnia (+135)
Owen Sound (+152)
Saginaw (-100)
Guelph (-92)
Flint (-85)
East
Kingston (-244)
Ottawa (-21)
Mississauga (+81)
Hamilton (+137)
Oshawa (-186)
North Bay (-216)
Sudbury (-284)
Niagara (+51)
Barrie (-208)
Peterborough (+525)
More then anything it's the style of play the league currently embraces along with ticket/ concession prices too high in many team locations.
Coming off a Mem Cup win,plus a hard working team last year,I heard zero talk of lack of playoff success as a reason for staying away.
Every franchise wants to improve especially if you use that 15 win example. Winning isn't the sole reason but if you're spending money on that product it should certainly be a big reason if you choose to go.
The franchise did whatever it takes to win but like I said earlier it was short term gain for long term pain as you can see this past season and it culminating in 2000 fans attending the final game. The message is slowly being sent the question is how long they will stay away. If you're a prospect that's fine but this discussion was about the fans.
Windsor7
You and Rayzor don't count as alot only 2
Cfaub doesn't go to games anymore.
Windsor can win 10 in a row and you will be negative,proof Spits win Cup and you say 1-2 positive things the rest negative, talk about a mind tightly shut.
You and Rayzor don't count as alot only 2
Cfaub doesn't go to games anymore.
Windsor can win 10 in a row and you will be negative,proof Spits win Cup and you say 1-2 positive things the rest negative, talk about a mind tightly shut.
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youngblood10
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2010
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Have to say I've never heard anyone talk about a playoff drought, inside or outside the rink, ever.
With all the different things that go on around a team & league, people talk about the topic of the day. This topic is very remote outside the bubble here.
I've seen the same people attend games for years. Win or lose. So there is a segment that the games are a social activity & or they're diehards etc...
These fans are the backbone of junior hockey in their given communities.
There is also a large segments who come & go as the team goes, for various reasons, priorities etc..
With all the different things that go on around a team & league, people talk about the topic of the day. This topic is very remote outside the bubble here.
I've seen the same people attend games for years. Win or lose. So there is a segment that the games are a social activity & or they're diehards etc...
These fans are the backbone of junior hockey in their given communities.
There is also a large segments who come & go as the team goes, for various reasons, priorities etc..
Rayzor hasn't been to a game in awhile I believe...
It has been discussed many times on here on how the spits won the cup.
I thought u were moving forward n not living in the past?
Talking about lack of playoff success is in the past too, mentioning 7 years,as long as anybody brings up the past in the negative I will bring the positive
Do I prefer otherwise
Yes I do.
Why can't we start from the drafts forward?
I am willing are u?
Could be tough for you
HL
Asking people around the rink/at a game if the limited success would keep them away provides an obvious no, they're at the game.
Yes, I stopped going due to everything that appeared to be contributing to what was becoming a regular lack of success. Last had seasons in 11/12 and last attended a game in 2014.
As for people outside of the rink I've had people I was working with (2 years ago) tell me they had friends with season tickets who were always trying to give them away, they were cancelling end of season but no one was interested in going, my coworker turned them down nearly every game. Other friends coworkers etc that used to go to 5 or 6 games a year haven't been in 3 or 4 years.
They all have many reasons but they all share common ones too, the product, from on ice changes to lack of success makes the experience less entertaining and not worth the money. Why spend their time and money on a less entertaining product when they don't see Windsor having great odds of getting a win.
Even my brother, his wife and 5 kids who would go 3 or 4 times a year may go once a year, every other year now.
As for the numbers you showed, after a Memorial Cup win Windsor had the 3rd biggest decline in average attendance. That's when they should have a nice bump but Erie had an even bigger drop but was also after 5 years of ongoing success so I'm sure fans saw the time was coming for a tough season there.
It's a high level league that has some league wide influences as well as local issues in terms of attendance but high level sports have fans that do have expectations.
Asking people around the rink/at a game if the limited success would keep them away provides an obvious no, they're at the game.
Yes, I stopped going due to everything that appeared to be contributing to what was becoming a regular lack of success. Last had seasons in 11/12 and last attended a game in 2014.
As for people outside of the rink I've had people I was working with (2 years ago) tell me they had friends with season tickets who were always trying to give them away, they were cancelling end of season but no one was interested in going, my coworker turned them down nearly every game. Other friends coworkers etc that used to go to 5 or 6 games a year haven't been in 3 or 4 years.
They all have many reasons but they all share common ones too, the product, from on ice changes to lack of success makes the experience less entertaining and not worth the money. Why spend their time and money on a less entertaining product when they don't see Windsor having great odds of getting a win.
Even my brother, his wife and 5 kids who would go 3 or 4 times a year may go once a year, every other year now.
As for the numbers you showed, after a Memorial Cup win Windsor had the 3rd biggest decline in average attendance. That's when they should have a nice bump but Erie had an even bigger drop but was also after 5 years of ongoing success so I'm sure fans saw the time was coming for a tough season there.
It's a high level league that has some league wide influences as well as local issues in terms of attendance but high level sports have fans that do have expectations.
OHLTG
Registered User
Since the topic is up...
Over the last 4-5 seasons, I've never heard "lack of playoff success" brought up in conversation at the rink. It's always a cautious optimism, such as "hopefully these new kids pan out. We'll see..." This is from random conversations either involving me or with people who friends know. When I'm out in the community, I've had people come up to me and ask about the team. Life got busy for them and they kept up with the team through what I've posted in various social media (which I found to be odd but appreciated).
Really, "lack of playoff success" hasn't been a reason a single time.
He was at one either this past season or the one before that. My memory of exact date is foggy.
Over the last 4-5 seasons, I've never heard "lack of playoff success" brought up in conversation at the rink. It's always a cautious optimism, such as "hopefully these new kids pan out. We'll see..." This is from random conversations either involving me or with people who friends know. When I'm out in the community, I've had people come up to me and ask about the team. Life got busy for them and they kept up with the team through what I've posted in various social media (which I found to be odd but appreciated).
Really, "lack of playoff success" hasn't been a reason a single time.
He was at one either this past season or the one before that. My memory of exact date is foggy.
Cfaub
Spits after 1st Mem Cup win added 1215 fan average increase for 9-10 season.
However after they won again they
Actually lost 25 to their average for 10-11 season
After the 10-11 season where they went to the final 4, the average attendance for 11-12 season dropped 232
And actually after finishing 8th and losing in the 1st round to London that season attendance for the next year dropped 133 for the 12-13 season, which was less then the drop when they went to final 4.
When 5 of the top 6 teams in average attendance drop as they did this season including Windsor which is in the top 6, only Niagara gained +51,
I think it's more then playoff dissatisfaction,but still think more of league style of play and pricing/ concessions.
Spits after 1st Mem Cup win added 1215 fan average increase for 9-10 season.
However after they won again they
Actually lost 25 to their average for 10-11 season
After the 10-11 season where they went to the final 4, the average attendance for 11-12 season dropped 232
And actually after finishing 8th and losing in the 1st round to London that season attendance for the next year dropped 133 for the 12-13 season, which was less then the drop when they went to final 4.
When 5 of the top 6 teams in average attendance drop as they did this season including Windsor which is in the top 6, only Niagara gained +51,
I think it's more then playoff dissatisfaction,but still think more of league style of play and pricing/ concessions.
OHLTG
Registered User
randomhero4life
Registered User
don't forget the 3 fight rule!! Lot's of fans like the fights. Pretty limited now!
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 10,748
- 6,921
Go back 10 years or so (could be different for different organizations), the pricing for Season Tickets was as such it was cheap entertainment for many markets. I know in Ottawa my tickets cost about $11 per game for many years. I didn’t care if we were good or bad with respect to the money. However, as the price of the product went up, and the losing seasons started to pile up, I became much less hard core.
I think the OHL has priced itself into Season Tickets being an investment in our future fun. I can understand when people suggest that going to see a losing product is a bad investment.
randomhero4life
Registered User
These "Fans" during the good times.....lets be honest.....they were band wagon fans, not real fans!! People have many legitimate reasons for now going to the game. 1. Personal Finances 2. Weather 3. School Night 4. It's Televised 5. They are busy. Etc. To get back to my first statement, There are people that will only go to games when the team is on top, happens in every city!! I appreciate the comments real fans give!! The ones that stick with the team through the good and the bad!! That's a real fan!! I can only speak for myself but I am a adament hockey fan and have played the game since I was 3 years old, I love going to the games, I am not concerned with concession prices as I have seen much worse, I have never had a issue with parking,.....I have never had a issue period! To each their own. What I do find entertaining at times other times really annoyed,.... the constant complaining on this thread. There are team threads on this website from teams that have not won anything in years.....decades!! and there is less complaining there!! I know it's my choice to read or participate in the discussions on here......and I will be the first to admit I have engaged in the stupidness that fills this thread. I personally think that more people would participate on here if there was less grade school drama!!
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OHLTG
Registered User
Frankly, after the "Spits moving" scare before Rychel et al. bought the team, I'm kind of just happy to have a team here.
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