Windsor Spitfires 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 6)

[Cherrydon]

We all realize the Spits are less than mediocre this season. No we didn't expect them to seriously contend this season, and now less likely next season as well. The point of conversation is if the assembled team this season is under or over achieving in comparison to their talent level. Most would agree as do I that better utilization of such talent may have yielded slightly better results to date. Obvious questions regarding "systems" come into the conversation when seemingly easy choices made by the coaching are not changed. Playing a left D on the right side is great for a offensive shot potential but hell to hold a puck in the offensive zone, chipping pucks out of the defensive zone or skating back to defend the opposing players advance with your stick on the wrong side of you. This is just basics. I believe in utilizing the talent you're given to their strengths. Great quick release shot " power play" great shot blocking "shorthanded " opportunity. Centers drawing better one side to the other circle. All these simple things make a difference in the results. When players see coaching with favoritism and no logical sense decision being made. It spurns the jealousy and decent that so many of our players have demonstrated this year. Did they have to go, yes toxic is toxic, but solve the problem before our new talent gets infected.
Example, feel bad for a player like Boka being sent out when a needed tying goal is required. He himself probably feels there are better shots on the bench in that situation. Just because you are a veteran does not mean you should have the ice in certain situations. Those decisions are made by the coaching staff we like to think anyways lol. I would just like to see the best of what talent we have, used in the best possible scenarios. Don't care if we are last place team if the boys are a team on the ice and off. Just like to see team unity and respect between for one another, win or loose.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Will be interesting to see who gets the start in goal for Windsor vs Erie Thursday at home.
Case can be made for both Piironen and Inzce.
Piironen has a surprising 6-1-1 record at home this season,has been pulled twice and both times his replacement
Inzce got the loss,while 1 time early in the Dipietro got pulled vs Saginaw,and Piironen replaced him and got the win.
Enough though Piironen had a tough night in Saginaw,his home record is compelling enough to have him get the start, however the fact that Inzce has played 3 solid games in a row all on the road,has not started a home game yet,makes me think I would give him the start vs Erie, not only because of his strong play lately but more so the game on Friday where Windsor visits Kitchener for the final time this season, Piironen has played all 3 games is 2-1 against them,recorded his only shutout of the season in Kitchener the last time here,has only allowed 3 goals against the Rangers in the games the teams have played against each other.
So I say start Inzce Friday,go with the Piironen Friday at Kitchener, and worry about the game at Saginaw Sunday night after the 2 goalies performances proposed.

 

[OHLTG]

That makes sense. I'm surprised Incze hasn't started a home game yet, too.

 

[TheGremlin]

Will be interesting to see who gets the start in goal for Windsor vs Erie Thursday at home.
Case can be made for both Piironen and Inzce.
Piironen has a surprising 6-1-1 record at home this season,has been pulled twice and both times his replacement
Inzce got the loss,while 1 time early in the Dipietro got pulled vs Saginaw,and Piironen replaced him and got the win.
Enough though Piironen had a tough night in Saginaw,his home record is compelling enough to have him get the start, however the fact that Inzce has played 3 solid games in a row all on the road,has not started a home game yet,makes me think I would give him the start vs Erie, not only because of his strong play lately but more so the game on Friday where Windsor visits Kitchener for the final time this season, Piironen has played all 3 games is 2-1 against them,recorded his only shutout of the season in Kitchener the last time here,has only allowed 3 goals against the Rangers in the games the teams have played against each other.
So I say start Inzce Friday,go with the Piironen Friday at Kitchener, and worry about the game at Saginaw Sunday night after the 2 goalies performances proposed.

Looks like we have a great chance in thursdays game with 2 goalies playing.

 

[TheGremlin]

Excellent post,could not have expressed things any better and most people I speak to at rink, be it fans,hockey people pretty much agree.
No question had the four players that were moved out speaking of Morgan, Starikov,Macdougal, Kitkevicious performed better or weren't a cancer in the room,1 of them wont say who,I am sure a few more wins would exist,and as said if Dipietro were here more wins too.
Not every player is going to turn out as expected, dont like it is what it is.

I do not buy that most people you talk to say

I do think the team is better than last year's year ending team. Overall last year, the team finished 6th, but would have finished 8th, if they had lost their final game to Saginaw. A "stand on his head" performance by Brock Baier (his only win of the year) put them is 6th place. However,the first half of the season, they had Brown, Day, Luchuk, McEneny and Vilardi. If they had kept those players, they probably would have finished top 4. So, compare this team's performance against the 2nd half of the year. It is pretty much Apples to Apples. This team is much better than that team with the exception of goaltending.

Two years ago, the Spits were Mem Cup Champions (don't argue, look it up, they won the Cup). There are only 5 players left from that team: Purboo, Boka, Corcoran, Angle and Playfair. Purboo and Boka were 3rd or 4th liners and Corcoran was playing out of position as a forward on the 4th line. Angle and Playfair were in the pressbox. The team has added no significant veteran presence since that time.

The team is getting better and should be much better next year. The Offense is much better than the 2nd part of last year and much better than the first half of this year. In the beginning of the season, they were struggling to score 2 goals a game. Now 3 to 5 goals a game is common place. If they had kept DiPietro, this team would easily finish 5th. They needed to trade DiPietro because who is satisfied with 5th.

Anyone that has been around hockey knows that Forwards develop the quickest. We are seeing that now. I like the way most of our younger Forwards are developing especially Foudy, Cuylee and D'Amico. Angle has been the team's most improved player. Frasca and McDonald have looked very good at times, but could probably use more consistent icetime.

The defence is always slower to develop. We have an OA defenceman in Allen, a 1999 in Stevenson, 2000 in Corcoran and 2001 Ds in Staios, Henault and Ladd. The 2 oldest Ds are probably the least talented of the 6. Corcoran is drafted and I expect the other 3 to be invited to NHL camps in the next 2 years. Yes, the D has not performed well, but look at the age of the group.

Goaltenders are the slowest to develop. We have a 2001 Starter who is a rookie. He has played well at times and terrible at other times. That is the norm for a 17yo in the OHL (not named DiPietro). If you look at most of the top Goaltenders in the league, they weren't starters at 17, and they also didn't have the pressure of being DiPietro's replacement).

Overall, the team has gathered some very good talent. Hopefully they will develop and additional pieces can be placed around them. I am not predicating that this will be a super team over the next 2 to 3 years, but some very talented pieces are there.

Just as a side note on how teams are doing that played in the 2017 Memorial Cup. In a league (CHL) where 54 of 60 teams make the playoffs. If the season ended today, Erie and Seattle would not be in the playoffs, while St. John would have the last playoff spot in the Q. The Spitfires have done the best job of rebuilding of the 4.

i would not say windsor has done the best job rebuilding. Erie had like a 4 year stretch of getting over 100 points leading up to Memorial Cup appearance. What did Windsor do in that time? Not 100 point seasons. I’d say it harder to rebuild after that long of success then it is being mediocre for 3 of those 4 same years leading to Memorial Cup. Were we really that much better then Erie last year??? If DiPietro is traded last year would we have more likey been battling Erie for the 8th seed. We had our star goalie for most of the first half of season and still only 3 points ahead of them. Are we really doing that much better then them right now?

 

[hockeylegend11]

Looks like we have a great chance in thursdays game with 2 goalies playing.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion, geez who do I sound like.

 

[hockeylegend11]

I do not buy that most people you talk to say

i would not say windsor has done the best job rebuilding. Erie had like a 4 year stretch of getting over 100 points leading up to Memorial Cup appearance. What did Windsor do in that time? Not 100 point seasons. I’d say it harder to rebuild after that long of success then it is being mediocre for 3 of those 4 same years leading to Memorial Cup. Were we really that much better then Erie last year??? If DiPietro is traded last year would we have more likey been battling Erie for the 8th seed. We had our star goalie for most of the first half of season and still only 3 points ahead of them. Are we really doing that much better then them right now?

And even with Connor McDavid a generational player they couldn't win a Mem Cup.
Windsor had one in Taylor Hall and won 2.
As for this year Erie just dumped their best point producer an oa ,plus their 2nd leading scorer Poddunyi wont be back next year,98 points between them this year,let's see how they do next year.
Windsor's top 6 point guys will all be back and assuming Afanaseyev shows and by most accounts 99 per cent he will be here,I don't see Erie competing
New nickname for you guys The Surrogates for Spitfire Negativity, be proud you wear it well.

 

[OHLTG]

What's strange is that, in a couple of seasons, it won't matter who was better in Jan 2019. It'll be very much a "what have they done for me lately?"

 

[tomschman]

I do not buy that most people you talk to say

i would not say windsor has done the best job rebuilding. Erie had like a 4 year stretch of getting over 100 points leading up to Memorial Cup appearance. What did Windsor do in that time? Not 100 point seasons. I’d say it harder to rebuild after that long of success then it is being mediocre for 3 of those 4 same years leading to Memorial Cup. Were we really that much better then Erie last year??? If DiPietro is traded last year would we have more likey been battling Erie for the 8th seed. We had our star goalie for most of the first half of season and still only 3 points ahead of them. Are we really doing that much better then them right now?

I was not making any comparisons between Erie and Windsor, other that the along with St. John and Seattle are struggling 2 years after a Memorial Cup appearance. I did say that I felt the Spits performed better in the 1st half of this season than they did in the 2nd half of last season. I would agree with you that if the Spits had not had DiPietro for the 1st half of the season that they would probably be in 9th. Nor did I say that they were doing a great job in the rebuild because the jury is out at this point. The rebuild can not be judged as a success or failure until the results of the next 2 to 3 seasons. I do think that the have acquired some talented players with a great potential. We can only see if they reach there potential or wash out in Windsor like Starikov, Morgan and McDougall. I will agree that the performance of those three reflect as a large negative on the rebuild. Especially Morgan since I feel that we gave away Vilardi and Day for practically nothing in retrospect. Starikov was a 2nd round Import pick and McDougall didn't cost that much, so the expectations weren't that high in the beginning. The problem with those 2 is hat they showed promise last year and totally flopped this year. IMO, the biggest mistake in the rebuild was they should of had a 2000 or 2001 Goalie to back up DiPietro last year and gave him 15 to 20 games. We entered training camp this year with 1 known Goalie and he was on the trading block. I hope Piironien works out, but at this moment, there is no known plan B.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I do not buy that most people you talk to say

i would not say windsor has done the best job rebuilding. Erie had like a 4 year stretch of getting over 100 points leading up to Memorial Cup appearance. What did Windsor do in that time? Not 100 point seasons. I’d say it harder to rebuild after that long of success then it is being mediocre for 3 of those 4 same years leading to Memorial Cup. Were we really that much better then Erie last year??? If DiPietro is traded last year would we have more likey been battling Erie for the 8th seed. We had our star goalie for most of the first half of season and still only 3 points ahead of them. Are we really doing that much better then them right now?

Right. I have my doubts he openly canvasses people in the arena to ask them how they are with the rebuild, if they are bothered by lack of playoff success. He said yesterday that if they aren't successful it's not a big deal. If that's truly the case why would he ask them questions where he might not hear the answer that he wants to hear?

Once Windsor moved their players out last year the Spits and Erie had the exact number of points 25 in their remaining 31 games. Also it's hard to compare the 2 situations because Erie in 2017 was going for it in the sense they didn't have many pieces to move the following year. They moved Raddysh/Sambrook and were done. Windsor still had multiple pieces to move and kept DiPietro. I think the perception is that Windsor is in a better situation than Erie but judging by the play on the ice it's hard to tell. So from the end of the trade deadline last year to this current time the Spits are 3 points better overall, it's amazing those numbers weren't brought up.......

 

[OHLTG]

What if the answer he gets simply isn't the answer people on here want to hear? People talk at the arena. A lot, in fact. Frankly, the conversation is pretty much a 180 from here, but who'd believe me anyway?

I still don't get why right now, in the current, is any indication of much towards the rebuild. If Windsor was better, we all know Erie could pass them, and vice versa. Not every rebuild is the same, nor should it be.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I was not making any comparisons between Erie and Windsor, other that the along with St. John and Seattle are struggling 2 years after a Memorial Cup appearance. I did say that I felt the Spits performed better in the 1st half of this season than they did in the 2nd half of last season. I would agree with you that if the Spits had not had DiPietro for the 1st half of the season that they would probably be in 9th. Nor did I say that they were doing a great job in the rebuild because the jury is out at this point. The rebuild can not be judged as a success or failure until the results of the next 2 to 3 seasons. I do think that the have acquired some talented players with a great potential. We can only see if they reach there potential or wash out in Windsor like Starikov, Morgan and McDougall. I will agree that the performance of those three reflect as a large negative on the rebuild. Especially Morgan since I feel that we gave away Vilardi and Day for practically nothing in retrospect. Starikov was a 2nd round Import pick and McDougall didn't cost that much, so the expectations weren't that high in the beginning. The problem with those 2 is hat they showed promise last year and totally flopped this year. IMO, the biggest mistake in the rebuild was they should of had a 2000 or 2001 Goalie to back up DiPietro last year and gave him 15 to 20 games. We entered training camp this year with 1 known Goalie and he was on the trading block. I hope Piironien works out, but at this moment, there is no known plan B.

I think perception and perspective is the largest factor on how discussions move. Honestly I didn't even look at Saint John or Seattle. Both leagues have different rules in regards to the draft. For instance both of those leagues you can trade 1st round picks and in the WHL they have a bantam draft eg. they already drafted their 03's back in June of 2018. Maybe it means a lot maybe it doesn't.

For some reason I don't get how we can preach patience with the rebuild and young guys but when it comes to Starikov/Morgan/MacDougall praise the organization for getting rid of perceived cancers etc.. All this does is just give a crutch to the organization and absolve the leaders of this team of responsibility as well as management. Didn't Rychel value you these guys enough to trade for them? Shouldn't he be receiving criticism for it getting to this point as well? They can be a negative on the rebuild but let's not lay blame on 2nd year guys for why the team isn't better. If that's the case everybody has to share in it Staois/Ladd/Boka/Purboo/Corcoran/Stevenson etc... If the blame is put on the ones that left it doesn't speak much of the others on the team imo.

Yes it will take a couple years to see how things go but.... Going into this year the Spits had 8 draft eligible players. Would it look ominous if the Spits only have 3-4 drafted and none before round 3? Spits are only down to 6 draft eligibles now with Morgan/Starikov gone.

What constitutes a successful rebuild?

Number of high NHL picks?
Number of division titles?
Number of playoff series victories?
Number of conference championships?
Number of ohl championships?

Here's a graphic and maybe it won't mean much to people but I only bring it up because there are 3 teams in the western conference on this list.

Does anyone believe that scouting/drafting and player development doesn't need to be better? If we are going to believe the Spits are near the top why haven't they had more success??

Yes one of the larger issues was not having a younger and/or capable backup for DiPietro last year because there wasn't really a succession plan and that was probably more important than anything they did last year and this year.

 

[OHLTG]

For some reason I don't get how we can preach patience with the rebuild and young guys but when it comes to Starikov/Morgan/MacDougall praise the organization for getting rid of perceived cancers etc..

If you detect someone isn't right for you, even after you've given it a chance, you cut it loose. Patience is required for the team as a whole because you can't expect a team with this litle experience in the league to necessarily succeed right away. Learning and growing takes time, as a team. The two work hand-in-hand; patience is required as a whole while you create the team you need to win a title. If that means cutting one or more players out of the equation, for whatever reason, then that's what happens.

Didn't Rychel value you these guys enough to trade for them? Shouldn't he be receiving criticism for it getting to this point as well?

If Rychel traded Vilardi and Day for just Morgan, then criticize away. We got Morgan along with multiple picks even more if you include the picks we got FOR Morgan. Same with MacDougall.

As far as drafting goes - Windsor was at 20, which I'd imagine is near the top of the OHL (just below Oshawa). They also had an additional 11 in the three drafts before that. (London had 7, Osh 7, SSM 5, OS 5). If you go back to near when Rychel started, Windsor is at 31, just behind SSM and OS. That's not bad at all.

Does anyone believe that scouting/drafting and player development doesn't need to be better? If we are going to believe the Spits are near the top why haven't they had more success??

You can always improve scouting and drafting, but the last four drafts (say, 2015 til now) have been very good, and the handful from 2006-2010 were very good. Would it be nice to have every draft be gold? Ideally, yes, but is that realistic? Ask 2/3 of the teams in this league.

Regardless of all of this, the future looks as bright as it has since probably 2007ish. It'll take time and there will be bumps along the road, but they have the youth in place. I'd love a few changes but this is part of hockey. Patience isn't a bad thing and, now that the rebuild has truly started, we'll see how the next couple or three seasons play out.

 

[Hardcore Techno]

If only we had not traded Dipietro or hosting the Mem Cup ? We would have gone all the way again.

 

[TheGremlin]

And even with Connor McDavid a generational player they couldn't win a Mem Cup.
Windsor had one in Taylor Hall and won 2.
As for this year Erie just dumped their best point producer an oa ,plus their 2nd leading scorer Poddunyi wont be back next year,98 points between them this year,let's see how they do next year.
Windsor's top 6 point guys will all be back and assuming Afanaseyev shows and by most accounts 99 per cent he will be here,I don't see Erie competing
New nickname for you guys The Surrogates for Spitfire Negativity, be proud you wear it well.

It funny how you think i’m always negative. You only comment on negative stuff that i write and when i try to have a discussion with you you don’t want to talk. I’m sorry i like to be realistic and not be all sunshine and rainbows. But hey. It is who you are. The Spits number 1 homer. Team who rarely does anything wrong.

 

[windsor7]

Looks like we have a great chance in thursdays game with 2 goalies playing.

Haha

 

[windsor7]

What if the answer he gets simply isn't the answer people on here want to hear? People talk at the arena. A lot, in fact. Frankly, the conversation is pretty much a 180 from here, but who'd believe me anyway?

I still don't get why right now, in the current, is any indication of much towards the rebuild. If Windsor was better, we all know Erie could pass them, and vice versa. Not every rebuild is the same, nor should it be.

Especially when 1 team has been in a constant rebuild since 2012.

 

[windsor7]

If only we had not traded Dipietro or hosting the Mem Cup ? We would have gone all the way again.

Probably.

 

[TheGremlin]

Also about erie never winning. Give them an actual goalie and they probably win 1 and possible 2 Mem Cups

 

[tomschman]

I think perception and perspective is the largest factor on how discussions move. Honestly I didn't even look at Saint John or Seattle. Both leagues have different rules in regards to the draft. For instance both of those leagues you can trade 1st round picks and in the WHL they have a bantam draft eg. they already drafted their 03's back in June of 2018. Maybe it means a lot maybe it doesn't.

For some reason I don't get how we can preach patience with the rebuild and young guys but when it comes to Starikov/Morgan/MacDougall praise the organization for getting rid of perceived cancers etc.. All this does is just give a crutch to the organization and absolve the leaders of this team of responsibility as well as management. Didn't Rychel value you these guys enough to trade for them? Shouldn't he be receiving criticism for it getting to this point as well? They can be a negative on the rebuild but let's not lay blame on 2nd year guys for why the team isn't better. If that's the case everybody has to share in it Staois/Ladd/Boka/Purboo/Corcoran/Stevenson etc... If the blame is put on the ones that left it doesn't speak much of the others on the team imo.

Yes it will take a couple years to see how things go but.... Going into this year the Spits had 8 draft eligible players. Would it look ominous if the Spits only have 3-4 drafted and none before round 3? Spits are only down to 6 draft eligibles now with Morgan/Starikov gone.

What constitutes a successful rebuild?

Number of high NHL picks?
Number of division titles?
Number of playoff series victories?
Number of conference championships?
Number of ohl championships?

Here's a graphic and maybe it won't mean much to people but I only bring it up because there are 3 teams in the western conference on this list.

Does anyone believe that scouting/drafting and player development doesn't need to be better? If we are going to believe the Spits are near the top why haven't they had more success??

Yes one of the larger issues was not having a younger and/or capable backup for DiPietro last year because there wasn't really a succession plan and that was probably more important than anything they did last year and this year.

I would judge success based on the performance of the team. While it is fantastic to have players drafted and become successful in the NHL, it is the success of the team that is most important to me. I think we can all agree that the 09 and 10 teams were fantastic, only a few players have had successful NHL careers. Hall, Ellis, Henrique and Watson from 09. Hall, Ellis, Henrique, Kassian, Fowler and Grubaer from 10. I might have missed someone. There were many other solid players that have not found success in the NHL. They include Young, Mitchell, Nemisz, Wellwood and others. They needed all those players to make a great team.

 

[OHLTG]

The issue with "success" in junior hockey is you can't pin down a firm definition. For some, it's how many players make the NHL, or how many Memorial Cups you win, or how many OHL titles you win. Given it's only a four-year window, it changes the game.

 

[Cherrydon]

I think we can unfortunately all state that London can be called a success in every way. They have produced many NHL players, have playoff success, have won a couple of mem cups. One thing is for sure they have always put a highly competitive team that does not quit on the ice annually. Their rebuild years have been few and are far in between. They are like the energizer bunny they keep going and going. They are annually subjected to poor draft position yet they as a management and scouting group get it done. That success breeds success. Players come there who may otherwise have chosen a different route. I hate to praise their program as they are my arch enemies. But I can't ignore all their successes in all the terms of the the definition. It's taken decades for them to find a recipe that works within the 4 yr windows. I think WR can also deliver such a recipe. We have had success over the past 10 yrs . We have had some bad luck. Coaches constantly have graduated to higher levels. I think the steadfast difference between London and the Spits is Dale Hunter. I'm not saying he's a better coach. You just know as a player, a young kid that Hunter will be your coach as long as you're there. London's strength is stability. Yes if Bougner made a decision to ever return and stay as head coach of Windsor for the long term, we could easily enjoy similar success. Just my opinion.

 

[ohloutsider]

The fun part of this discussion is there is no RIGHT answer. The bad part of this discussion is there is no RIGHT answer.

I will say at my age it is more important what will happen tomorrow than what will happen 4 years from now.

Speaking of the next 2 games they will have a big impact on where we will finish in the standings. Both in my eyes are like 4 point games. I'm sure Erie and Kitchener are looking at them that way as well. Go Spits Go!

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I would judge success based on the performance of the team. While it is fantastic to have players drafted and become successful in the NHL, it is the success of the team that is most important to me. I think we can all agree that the 09 and 10 teams were fantastic, only a few players have had successful NHL careers. Hall, Ellis, Henrique and Watson from 09. Hall, Ellis, Henrique, Kassian, Fowler and Grubaer from 10. I might have missed someone. There were many other solid players that have not found success in the NHL. They include Young, Mitchell, Nemisz, Wellwood and others. They needed all those players to make a great team.

I would agree with that. I am also of the opinion that you need NHL draft picks to win in the OHL. Guelph had some NHL picks but they also went all in and did a great job of obtaining NHL picks. In their lineup they have 11 NHL picks now. London has 8, Saginaw 9, Soo 5. I don't think it's a coincidence that these are the teams most thought to make a run in the west. Right now Windsor has 2, might be up to 4-5 next year but still lacking elite game changing talent and that's extremely important as well. Unfortunately that game changing talent usually comes from the draft because it would take a lot of assets to acquire that type of player in trade and the Spits don't have those assets right now.

 

[ohloutsider]

I would agree with that. I am also of the opinion that you need NHL draft picks to win in the OHL. Guelph had some NHL picks but they also went all in and did a great job of obtaining NHL picks. In their lineup they have 11 NHL picks now. London has 8, Saginaw 9, Soo 5. I don't think it's a coincidence that these are the teams most thought to make a run in the west. Right now Windsor has 2, might be up to 4-5 next year but still lacking elite game changing talent and that's extremely important as well. Unfortunately that game changing talent usually comes from the draft because it would take a lot of assets to acquire that type of player in trade and the Spits don't have those assets right now.

The players you are comparing on here are 19 year old draft picks in London/Guelph to 16-17 rookies in Windsor - how can you come to that conclusion when everything is not equal? - it is the old apples and oranges thing. Throw out numbers and "facts" that suit your narrative but this argument holds as much water as an already wet paper bag. Please show us comparable numbers before I for one will buy into your justifications.