Windsor Spitfires 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 6)

[tomschman]

Slim to none.
Kid is turning 19 in 3 weeks wont be here next year anyway, he is American who would be seeking a 2 year deal education wise,and 15,000 per year minimum to take him on,can guarantee Rychel has no appetite to this.
As well you mention Bernard deal with Erie,strictly a backup move no chance he plays here,he is the backup for La Salle and indicated to Windsor that he would serve a 3rd tender if needed.
This allowed Spits to ship Patton to Guelph,near home where bmhe can be their 3rd tender.
Nothing else to read into here.
Something to add,re Macdougall, his education package was picked up by Erie in the trade.

The benefit that I see from Bernard is that he is 17, whereas Patton is 19. I also do not expect Bernard to play in the OHL, but the Spits have a 3rd goaltender for 2 more seasons. He also gives the Spits 2 goaltenders going into next season, since I do not expect both Piironien and Incze to be here next year. It would make no sense to have Incze, as an OA, being the backup. I expect the goaltenders for Windsor next year to be: 1) Piironien; 2) ?????? and; 3) Bernard. Unless Incze has a fantastic remainder of the season and clearly becomes the number 1, I don't even expect to see him in training camp next year. If in the unlikely event Incze does become number 1, I would expect Piironien to be elsewhere next year.

 

[OHLTG]

Just curious - if nobody here had "unrealistic expectations" then why are people getting annoyed with lower results? If you don't expect much due to the rebuild, you have no reason to be cranky.

The "experience" thing is weird. They include Garagan and Campbell (which is fair), but neither has played much for us. Take those away (due to them being so new), we're second last in the league by a fair margin. Yes, they were brought in for experience but it shows the roster as a whole is very new.

It's ironic there was a lot of talk how useful that 6 game series was against Sarnia was last year.

Would you have preferred they missed the playoffs or lost in four-straight?

 

[TheGremlin]

Having Dipietro i think made it harder to judge this team for the past year and a half.

 

[member 71782]

Just curious - if nobody here had "unrealistic expectations" then why are people getting annoyed with lower results? If you don't expect much due to the rebuild, you have no reason to be cranky.

The "experience" thing is weird. They include Garagan and Campbell (which is fair), but neither has played much for us. Take those away (due to them being so new), we're second last in the league by a fair margin. Yes, they were brought in for experience but it shows the roster as a whole is very new.



Would you have preferred they missed the playoffs or lost in four-straight?

I don't think a lot of people had expectations that this team was going to finish top 4 in the conference but noticeable improvement over last year should not be unrealistic. What people are upset about, at least myself and based on comments some others is that other than a few individuals team play has not improved and that is what people find annoying and unacceptable. Throw in a lot of what's already been mentioned, getting older, not younger, not doing a whole lot at the deadline to either build towards the future or even make some adjustments to solidify the line up for the rest of this year with an older player or two who could have provided a bit of an impact and it becomes very frustrating, disheartening for fans.

Rychel had the chance to get younger or at least the chance was likely out there to move Boka, Purboo etc. The return probably would not have been what many had hoped for but it would likely have been more then they should expect going into their OA seasons next year.

The apparent issues stemming from within the organization, player issues, player/coach issues, unwillingness to deal with some of them from above shows a complete lack of accountability on all parts.

It may only be year two of a rebuild but there always needs to be realistic expectations, a desire to play and be part of a team, an ability to show noticeable improvement from year to year etc. Right now Windsor is heading into next season with more uncertainty then they came into this with going into the third year of this rebuild. That's not a good position to be in.

Over the off season issues need to be dealt with and that goes beyond signing and recruiting players but moving those out who are part of the issue if they are not part of the future or dealing with them if they are expected to be part of the core. Put players in their respective roles as well. It will eliminate frustration and cut down on any possible animosity that may exist between players. We have Boka, a defensive minded forward who excels in that role playing PP, PK, when trailing on the board etc when he is going into his OA season next year while we have McDonald and Frasca, both expected to be part of the core going forward, expected to contribute offensively etc playing fourth line minutes on a team that is struggling to reach the level they did last year. It's a rebuild get younger and pass the responsibilities onto the younger players. There will be hiccups no doubt but at least you are actually developing players instead of having them sit on the bench most of the games while others are put into situations they don't excel at.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Having Dipietro i think made it harder to judge this team for the past year and a half.

I think this would be closer to reality. Unfortunately it's a little surprising because going back to the last time we saw Windsor they just finished allowing 43 shots per game against Sarnia. DiPietro did his best to keep them in every game, a lot of those shots were from high danger areas as well. They came back with almost the same D take out Shankar put in Allen. Now this year the Spits are 2nd in the league giving up high danger shots. It can only be two things 1. the players, 2. the systems/coaching. Like most things it's a little bit of both but it's up to management to make the correct evaluations. Will they? Guess we will find out October 2019.

 

[OHLTG]

Rychel had the chance to get younger or at least the chance was likely out there to move Boka, Purboo etc. The return probably would not have been what many had hoped for but it would likely have been more then they should expect going into their OA seasons next year.

Here's the issue with dealing Purboo and Boka - if you don't get what you perceive to be fair value, you're risking losing more than you gain. Whether we like it or not, Purboo has become a point getter that really does help us out, and Boka is a premiere defensive forward. Both of those are big on an inexperienced/younger club. We can see a lot of the overall responsibilites have been put on the younger guys (D'Amico, Douglas, Foudy, Cuylle, etc). That's a big step. This second half, without DiPietro, is going to show us more than last year's second half did.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I don't think a lot of people had expectations that this team was going to finish top 4 in the conference but noticeable improvement over last year should not be unrealistic. What people are upset about, at least myself and based on comments some others is that other than a few individuals team play has not improved and that is what people find annoying and unacceptable. Throw in a lot of what's already been mentioned, getting older, not younger, not doing a whole lot at the deadline to either build towards the future or even make some adjustments to solidify the line up for the rest of this year with an older player or two who could have provided a bit of an impact and it becomes very frustrating, disheartening for fans.

Rychel had the chance to get younger or at least the chance was likely out there to move Boka, Purboo etc. The return probably would not have been what many had hoped for but it would likely have been more then they should expect going into their OA seasons next year.

The apparent issues stemming from within the organization, player issues, player/coach issues, unwillingness to deal with some of them from above shows a complete lack of accountability on all parts.

It may only be year two of a rebuild but there always needs to be realistic expectations, a desire to play and be part of a team, an ability to show noticeable improvement from year to year etc. Right now Windsor is heading into next season with more uncertainty then they came into this with going into the third year of this rebuild. That's not a good position to be in.

Over the off season issues need to be dealt with and that goes beyond signing and recruiting players but moving those out who are part of the issue if they are not part of the future or dealing with them if they are expected to be part of the core. Put players in their respective roles as well. It will eliminate frustration and cut down on any possible animosity that may exist between players. We have Boka, a defensive minded forward who excels in that role playing PP, PK, when trailing on the board etc when he is going into his OA season next year while we have McDonald and Frasca, both expected to be part of the core going forward, expected to contribute offensively etc playing fourth line minutes on a team that is struggling to reach the level they did last year. It's a rebuild get younger and pass the responsibilities onto the younger players. There will be hiccups no doubt but at least you are actually developing players instead of having them sit on the bench most of the games while others are put into situations they don't excel at.

Agreed it's just the frustration that these core principles in how a team is to succeed aren't being performed at the necessary level.

The stuff about Boka replacing Douglas on the top line is ridiculous. I am sure somebody will say well he scored in his last few games. That doesn't explain when he wasn't scoring how he was one of the first guys over the boards for the PP and if the team pulled their goalie being the extra attacker. We can only come to the conclusion that Letowski absolutely loves Boka's game and can't see through his flaws which in the end looks bad on Letowski.

We aren't that far gone from the end of the 2012 season when people were really pumped about the future.

17 year olds who take their lumps in 2012 but will be back strong
Rychel
Vail
Clarke
Johnson
Ebert
Webermin
Devlin

16 year olds who have a bright future
Maletta
Bateman
Smith

The year ends and the Spits draft
Ho-Sang
Sanvido
Brown

Spits get Sieloff to report and there you go that's pretty much 70% of the roster returning not including goaltenders.

I think when you have Boka/Purboo returning next year there isn't any reason to think Letowski wouldn't force the issue and put them in his top 6. After all if you put Boka bottom 6 you aren't increasing his value either.

 

[windsor7]

Just curious - if nobody here had "unrealistic expectations" then why are people getting annoyed with lower results? If you don't expect much due to the rebuild, you have no reason to be cranky.

The "experience" thing is weird. They include Garagan and Campbell (which is fair), but neither has played much for us. Take those away (due to them being so new), we're second last in the league by a fair margin. Yes, they were brought in for experience but it shows the roster as a whole is very new.



Would you have preferred they missed the playoffs or lost in four-straight?

Take away hosting- u get a automatic buy to the memorial cup. What have they actually done in the playoffs???

 

[OHLTG]

Wait, we're comparing Maletta/Smith/Webermin to Cuylle/Foudy/D'Amico? Cuylle alone has more goals at this point than Maletta had points in his entire first season. I think anyone who's logical can see the current trio is already much better than the 2012 version.

I would also take a handful of Kerby Rychel's - back-to-back 40-goal seasons?! Works for me.

 

[member 71782]

Here's the issue with dealing Purboo and Boka - if you don't get what you perceive to be fair value, you're risking losing more than you gain. Whether we like it or not, Purboo has become a point getter that really does help us out, and Boka is a premiere defensive forward. Both of those are big on an inexperienced/younger club. We can see a lot of the overall responsibilites have been put on the younger guys (D'Amico, Douglas, Foudy, Cuylle, etc). That's a big step. This second half, without DiPietro, is going to show us more than last year's second half did.

I can see keeping Purboo, this team needs all the offensive help it can get but Boka as a premier defensive player on a team that needs more offensive help, which would benefit their overall defensive game provides more value in trade return.

As for fair value fans expectations have nothing to do with it.

Boka is a defensive specialist with limited offensive upside, what is fair return for someone who is realistic a one dimensional player with some rare streaks of offensive contributions? Add in he's 19, OA next year in a market where trade prices are going through a major correction?

If he were dealt last year when he showed offensive upside riding shotgun next to Luchuk he may have returned a 2nd and 2x 3rds. This year a 3rd and a 4th would have been the most Rychel likely could have gotten.

What will he return, fair market price not fan expectations for him as an OA? He brings almost no offensive upside, a big expectation for OA forwards. He is amazing defensively but the struggles Windsor has had as a team has likely caused some doubts. Would he return a 4th and a 6th next year? Maybe, maybe not depending on the market and needs.

We know what he brought to Windsor for three years but this year he hasn't improved and the way he's been used hasn't been helpful to him or the team.

Keeping him at this point and going forward was and will be a mistake and if the issues concerning older players, including Boka have any merit it comes across as him being part of the problem.

What's fair value for a one dimensional OA in a market where prices are coming down who as captain has at the very least struggled to keep the room together?

 

[hockeylegend11]

Take away hosting- u get a automatic buy to the memorial cup. What have they actually done in the playoffs???

Who cares,a championship was the goal and it was achieved period.
On to try to win another championship or two in this cycle ,if it happens great, if it doesn't matter to me.

 

[OHLTG]

Boka is a defensive specialist with limited offensive upside, what is fair return for someone who is realistic a one dimensional player with some rare streaks of offensive contributions? Add in he's 19, OA next year in a market where trade prices are going through a major correction?

Fair value is what helps both clubs out. If you deal Boka for three 2nds, that's realistically too much. If you deal him for a 5th, how does that help the Spitfires? You only deal him if the return helps the Spits as much as dealing him would.

We know what he brought to Windsor for three years but this year he hasn't improved and the way he's been used hasn't been helpful to him or the team.

I think this is the key. We KNOW what he can do in the right situation. It's there in black-and-white.

 

[ohloutsider]

Just for clarification - it is year 1 of a rebuild. Many posters on here stated rebuild does not start until Spits deal DiPietro. He was dealt in December so that is when it started. Like many have accused others - stop moving the goal posts to fit your narrative.


And further to this any and all good teams never stop re-tweaking - it is junior hockey so a lifetime of flux is what we see. There are down years and up years but teams need to keep reinventing themselves constantly.

 

[member 71782]

Wait, we're comparing Maletta/Smith/Webermin to Cuylle/Foudy/D'Amico? Cuylle alone has more goals at this point than Maletta had points in his entire first season. I think anyone who's logical can see the current trio is already much better than the 2012 version.

I would also take a handful of Kerby Rychel's - back-to-back 40-goal seasons?! Works for me.

Rayzor will correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me like the comparison is more about the perceived expectations of some who assume all young players/rosters will automatically progress and how some questioned that and were automatically tagged as just being negative and impatient.

I don't think it was comparing players but the similar situations of the organization.

Young rebuilding team expected to progress with their mix of youth and experience that never did.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Having Dipietro i think made it harder to judge this team for the past year and a half.

We sure know that now up here. So many deficiencies and mistakes are covered up.

 

[member 71782]

Fair value is what helps both clubs out. If you deal Boka for three 2nds, that's realistically too much. If you deal him for a 5th, how does that help the Spitfires? You only deal him if the return helps the Spits as much as dealing him would.



I think this is the key. We KNOW what he can do in the right situation. It's there in black-and-white.

Between last year and this year Letowski has proven he is more than willing to use Boka in the wrong situations would make a 5th more valuable.

If that were his value then its likely diminished due to how he's been used and at the same time the longer he's here used the wrong way he blocks development of the kids going forward by filling the, not in a satisfactory way a kid should be filling.

 

[member 71782]

Just for clarification - it is year 1 of a rebuild. Many posters on here stated rebuild does not start until Spits deal DiPietro. He was dealt in December so that is when it started. Like many have accused others - stop moving the goal posts to fit your narrative.


And further to this any and all good teams never stop re-tweaking - it is junior hockey so a lifetime of flux is what we see. There are down years and up years but teams need to keep reinventing themselves constantly.

If this is year one of a rebuild then last seasons results become very disappointing.

Teams will have ups and downs but within those ups and downs there still needs to be actions taken to fix problems.

 

[OHLTG]

Rayzor will correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me like the comparison is more about the perceived expectations of some who assume all young players/rosters will automatically progress and how some questioned that and were automatically tagged as just being negative and impatient.

See, I took it as "we heard this story before and look how they turned out." That's why I said that the current three are already ahead of the 2012 group and it's not even close.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Rayzor will correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me like the comparison is more about the perceived expectations of some who assume all young players/rosters will automatically progress and how some questioned that and were automatically tagged as just being negative and impatient.

I don't think it was comparing players but the similar situations of the organization.

Young rebuilding team expected to progress with their mix of youth and experience that never did.

Correct, it's more about the young core and how they will be together and be the next group to bring regular season and playoff success. Just because you're young doesn't mean you're automatically part of the future. I mean look no further to last year people penciling in Starikov/Morgan for success this year and beyond. Just like next year upcoming fans like Frasca/McDonald but there's no guarantee both will take off. In fact there's probably a better chance one of them doesn't improve a lot especially if you're going to have Purboo/Boka/Playfair/Angle taking up 33% of the forwards, possibly draft an import forward or a forward in April for the minor midget draft.

 

[OHLTG]

If Cuylle/Foudy/D'Amico aren't part of the future, there's a major issue with this club.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

If this is year one of a rebuild then last seasons results become very disappointing.

Teams will have ups and downs but within those ups and downs there still needs to be actions taken to fix problems.

I think saying the rebuild just started with moving DiPietro is a way to move the goalposts and absolve the group last year Staois/Morgan(obviously)/Ladd/D'Amico/Starikov(obviously) that the results didn't matter and neither did the results before the DiPietro trade.

If the Spits are average next year and have to move a couple guys like Purboo/Boka/Corcoran/Douglas does that mean the rebuild starts after you move those guys?

Right now the Spits need their best players to be at their best because their best is needed right now. They need to set the tone for the rest of the year and going into next year.

 

[aresknights]

Just for clarification - it is year 1 of a rebuild. Many posters on here stated rebuild does not start until Spits deal DiPietro. He was dealt in December so that is when it started. Like many have accused others - stop moving the goal posts to fit your narrative.


And further to this any and all good teams never stop re-tweaking - it is junior hockey so a lifetime of flux is what we see. There are down years and up years but teams need to keep reinventing themselves constantly.

Not sure when any particular poster wants to start the clock on a rebuild, to each there own.
But when a team ships out talents In 1 year like Luchuk, Day, Vilardi, Brown, Stanley...... For the returns they got, helping replinish some much needed picks and also adding a few young (at the time promising) players....
Id guess thats a strong signal the rebuild is underway.
And for collectively much more in return than DiPi, althou he was the franchises most important player. The combined return of all those players should contribute more to a rebuild than DiPis return. Just the way I look at it. Not saying right or wrong.

 

[OHLTG]

Who was it that said the rebuild starts after you move DiPietro? I know it wasn't me and I'm almost certain it wasn't CFaub, Legend, or Random...

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Between last year and this year Letowski has proven he is more than willing to use Boka in the wrong situations would make a 5th more valuable.

If that were his value then its likely diminished due to how he's been used and at the same time the longer he's here used the wrong way he blocks development of the kids going forward by filling the, not in a satisfactory way a kid should be filling.

Realistic value of Boka???

Boka career numbers 5th round pick 2015 95th overall
229 gp
38g
54a
+5
3 PPG
1 SHG
39% at faceoffs


Player B
160 gp
24g
51a
+8
1 PPG
2 SHG
Doesn't take faceoffs

Player B is Jaden Peca 6th round pick 102nd overall 2015 draft, acquired for a 6th round pick in 2020. Fair value for Boka would probably be in the 5th/6th round draft pick range, maybe you get a real young prospect who was a 7th/8th round pick you can develop into something.

 

[OHLTG]

Good to see people value the intangibles