Tennis: Wimbledon 2019

[Novak Djokovic]

I never called either era weak, I just stated that Novak peaking at a different time than Feds and Nadal will hurt him in the long run when the debate starts talking head to head.

If head to head isn't during both players peaks, it carries less weight.

I would argue Nadal's peak corresponded more to Novak's (concurrently) than your artificial created peak for Fed at 2004-2007 which undermines your entire point.

 

[TaLoN]

I would argue Nadal's peak corresponded more to Novak's (concurrently) than your artificial created peak for Fed at 2004-2007 which undermines your entire point.

Artificially created? Have you LOOKED at his stats those years? You can't look at multiple of Tennis' greatest seasons by a single player in history and call that artificial.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I like fed the best out of the Big 3, but I think Novak has the best chance at ending up the GOAT. Winning record against Rafa and roger, dominating stretches, and I think provided he doesn’t get injured he will end up with the most slams. I don’t see Rafa holding up as long and roger has to start fading soon right ?

We’ll see, I just enjoy knowing this is the greatest era of tennis in history.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

I thought Fed had a 49% chance of winning which is why I bet less than 1% of my vcash on the match. I doubled my vcash by betting on Fed in the semi and Halep in the Final.

I still can't believe Ms Meow said she'd be shocked if Fed won a set off Rafa!

 

[Fighter]

I never called either era weak, I just stated that Novak peaking at a different time than Feds and Nadal will hurt him in the long run when the debate starts talking head to head.

In 2013 Nadal won FO and USOpen... at the age of 27. Yeah, he was way past his prime. Come on dude, stop this nonsense, really.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

In 2013 Nadal won FO and USOpen... at the age of 27. Yeah, he was way past his prime. Come on dude, stop this nonsense, really.

And he lost to Novak in 4 of the 5 GS consecutively from 2011 to 2012 when he was 25, again at his peak.

 

[MsMeow]

I can't see a newcomer winning a slam soon. I think a member of the big 3 will win the US Open and all of next years slams as well. Sucks being a youngster right now.

This is what I was thinking as well. As much as I want to see guys like Felix, Denis, Tsitsipas etc take a few steps, they aren't anywhere near the level these guys were at today or Rafa's level throughout the tourney. I think now that out of the big 3, Rafa will be the first to fall off, which is crazy considering Roger's age. I never would have expected Roger to play at this level in the semis and final.

 

[Maestro84]

And he lost to Novak in 4 of the 5 GS consecutively from 2011 to 2012 when he was 25, again at his peak.

Nadal/Djokovic matches between like 2008-2013 were utterly insane, classic after classic after classic. With the excpetion of the last year's Wimby match which was obviously an all-timer as well, Djokovic has powned Rafa for much of the last 5 years and it sadly hasn't been all that close

 

[MsMeow]

I thought Fed had a 49% chance of winning which is why I bet less than 1% of my vcash on the match. I doubled my vcash by betting on Fed in the semi and Halep in the Final.

I still can't believe Ms Meow said she'd be shocked if Fed won a set off Rafa!

Yup, I also said if he wanted to win he'd have to be aggressive and that's why he won. Had he been passive, no way.

 

[kihei]

Some odds and ends:

Whoever won, the curious stat that no one born in the '90s has won a Grand Slam title yet remains in effect.

Roger sets a negative but still rather impressive record as the only man to lose a match at Wimbledon in three tie breakers.

The Goat has played in the two longest Wimbledon finals in history and lost both of them.

The Big Three now have a total of 54 Grand Slam titles among themselves--a fact which continues to boggle my mind.

A great match that did honour to both players.

 

[NJDevs26]

I won't believe Federer's slam run is done until the old man retires.

I won't either, but let's face it...with Joker at the top of his game again it's hard to see anyone but him being favored at three of the next four majors - the US Open, Australia and the next Wimbledon. He could easily blow by Fed and Nadal, he probably would have already if whatever happened to him (injury, personal issues?) from mid-2016 to mid-2018 didn't happen.

I like fed the best out of the Big 3, but I think Novak has the best chance at ending up the GOAT. Winning record against Rafa and roger, dominating stretches, and I think provided he doesn’t get injured he will end up with the most slams. I don’t see Rafa holding up as long and roger has to start fading soon right ?

We’ll see, I just enjoy knowing this is the greatest era of tennis in history.

The best argument for Fed is even though he had that six-year stretch where he won just one major, he was still a factor - got to four finals and eight semis during that time. He was never a total non-factor in terms of being in contention for majors the way Joker was for about a year and a half or Nadal for like two years.

 

[NJDevs26]

Best Wimbledon final I've ever seen. Epic.

Federer was the better player, but what can you do.

It seems like there's more classic, epic finals at Wimbledon these days. Fed-Nadal, Fed-Roddick, Fed-Djokovic, Djokovic-Nadal last year was basically a final...Australia's had a few classics too. The French not so much since it's Nadal's turf and I don't remember many recent classic finals at the US Open.

 

[Fighter]

I don't remember many recent classic finals at the US Open.

Not a final maybe but 2011 semis between Nole and Feds was a real classic with Nole saving 2MPs on Feds' serve, one down 40-15, 5-3 in the fifth with an unreal ROS which might be the best ever. Everybody was left dumbfounded after that. Funniest part was Nole's face BEFORE hitting that shot.

 

[GQS]

Because 1 player came to play and the other didn't want to step on the court? Don't take Halep's excellent play away from her. Serena wasn't prepared and wasn't interested in yesterday's match. That's not Halep's fault, nor is it the fault of women's tennis.

Except that's what often happens in women's tennis. One player does well while the other plays like crap and then you have a boring finals that ends quickly. Why do you think so few women's matches are memorable and are talked about years later? Because usually there's nothing note worthy to talk about those matches years later.

Compare that to men's matches like this one which will be talked about 10-20 years from now as being one of the best matches in recent memory much like the Nadal/Federer Wimbledon finals matches are still remembered 10+ years after it happened as being possibly the best tennis matches ever. The bottom line is that women just play tennis while the men create moments in tennis history that will last a lifetime.

 

[TCTC]

It seems like there's more classic, epic finals at Wimbledon these days. Fed-Nadal, Fed-Roddick, Fed-Djokovic, Djokovic-Nadal last year was basically a final...Australia's had a few classics too. The French not so much since it's Nadal's turf and I don't remember many recent classic finals at the US Open.

Yeah, there haven't been many memorable finals at the US Open in recent years. Murray-Djokovic in 2012 probably was the last one you can call a classic.
There have been some stinkers at Wimbledon too though. From 2016 to 2018 we only had clean sweeps.

It really seems like we only get an interesting final when two of the Big 4 are involved. Everyone else is just cannon fodder, Wawrinka being the only exception.

 

[Maestro84]

It seems like there's more classic, epic finals at Wimbledon these days. Fed-Nadal, Fed-Roddick, Fed-Djokovic, Djokovic-Nadal last year was basically a final...Australia's had a few classics too. The French not so much since it's Nadal's turf and I don't remember many recent classic finals at the US Open.

The US Opens had some great matches too if I remember correctly.

Federer vs Del Potro in 2009
Federer vs Djokovic in 2010 and 2011
Murray vs Djokovic in 2012
Nadal vs Djokovic from 2010-2013 (weren’t exactly classics but all three of those felt like a boxing match on a tennis court)
Nadal vs Thiem in 2018
Del Potro vs Thiem in 2017

If we’re going even further back, Federer and Agassi had a 5-setter in like 2004 and of course, Agassi vs Blake in the QF in 2005 (one of my personal favs as an Agassi fan back in those days).

I will say though that in comparison to Wimbledon and Australia, the US Open has had less classic matches in comparison in the big 3/4 era

 

[NJDevs26]

The US Opens had some great matches too if I remember correctly.

Federer vs Del Potro in 2009
Federer vs Djokovic in 2010 and 2011
Murray vs Djokovic in 2012
Nadal vs Djokovic from 2010-2013 (weren’t exactly classics but all three of those felt like a boxing match on a tennis court)
Nadal vs Thiem in 2018
Del Potro vs Thiem in 2017

If we’re going even further back, Federer and Agassi had a 5-setter in like 2004 and of course, Agassi vs Blake in the QF in 2005 (one of my personal favs as an Agassi fan back in those days).

I will say though that in comparison to Wimbledon and Australia, the US Open has had less classic matches in comparison in the big 3/4 era

There's only been three finals in like the last thirty years at the US Open that even went to a fifth set, and all of them were 6-2 in the fifth. I don't doubt the US Open had classics earlier in the tournament, but I'm just talking about last weekend matches. Even the semis at the US Open have been bores in recent years. The last classic semi was Joker-Warwinka in 2013. We had two classic semis at Wimbledon just last year and of course an all-time final today.

 

[Maestro84]

There's only been three finals in like the last thirty years at the US Open that even went to a fifth set, and all of them were 6-2 in the fifth. I don't doubt the US Open had classics earlier in the tournament, but I'm just talking about last weekend matches. Even the semis at the US Open have been bores in recent years. The last classic semi was Joker-Warwinka in 2013. We had two classic semis at Wimbledon just last year and of course an all-time final today.

Oh crap how could I possibly forget that one, I knew there was one involving Wawrinka but I couldn’t remember which one, but yeah I get what you mean. In comparison to the other majors, the US Open has lacked a little bit when it comes to latter stage classics

 

[discostu]

Nice little article on Djokovic, his win today and his legacy in general
Novak Djokovic’s Lovely, Victorious Crisis

This passage in particular I think makes a great point.

This is, in essence, the whole tragedy of Djokovic. He arrived either a little too early or a little too late in the Federer-Nadal screenplay—too late to seem like an equal partner in the story, too early for the story to have ended without him—and as a result has always felt weirdly extraneous, even as he’s won 16 majors and been the best player in the world for most of the last 10 years.

By the time he started winning, people already claimed their position in the Nadal/Federer camps.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Nadal has only won 6 majors off clay. Outside Roland-Garros he's not in the same league as Fed and the Joker.

 

[discostu]

Nadal has only won 6 majors off clay. Outside Roland-Garros he's not in the same league as Fed and the Joker.

I don't see that as disqualifying.

Of all the surfaces to be best suited for in tennis, clay puts you at the most disadvantage to rack up titles, yet Nadal has managed to land second all time. I don't think that should count against him.

 

[Hadoop]

Still amazed at what we saw today. Djokovic truly has ice in his veins and that was IMO the gutsiest slam win of his illustrious career.

@Novak Djokovic guess it's time to update your sig again

 

[Hadoop]

Nice little article on Djokovic, his win today and his legacy in general
Novak Djokovic’s Lovely, Victorious Crisis

Great article. I would add that it's not a coincidence that Djokovic's mental toughness is seemingly indestructible considering what he experienced during his youth: Novak Djokovic: How 1999 Nato bombings of Belgrade shaped his career (mods feel free to take this down; but I feel it's relevant in turns of understanding him as a person)

 

[TaLoN]

I don't see that as disqualifying.

Of all the surfaces to be best suited for in tennis, clay puts you at the most disadvantage to rack up titles, yet Nadal has managed to land second all time. I don't think that should count against him.

Clay performance alone for Rafa has kept Fed from having 4 more major titles, and Joker...2 I think?

His affect is real. He is the single greatest clay court player in history, and is so dominant on that surface it fits him into the conversation in a big way.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Before Serena fans understood that the number of majors is not the only thing that matters. They also understood that not all tournaments are equal. Before Serena it was not that unusual for a healthy top 10 player to skip the Aussie or the French if they felt like it. Research it. I agree to disagree.
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I'm a fan, but I think it's gonna be tough for Serena to get #24. She has all the passing shots, power, serve, and strength you need, but she's a slow, emotional player who makes unforced errors. It's a tough combo.