Tennis: Wimbledon 2019

CupofOil

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Yea it would. Novak is still behind Roger and Rafa as of right now on the all-time list but man Novak’s been ridiculously dominant these last 5 or so years. If you told me in like 2013 that he’d be in position to surpass both Federer and Nadal on the slam list, hence the all time list I would’ve that you were crazy.

He was ridiculously good before 2013. 2011 was arguably his best year ever.
 
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Hadoop

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That's why I think that whatever these guys leave the slam record at it will get broken. I just don't think it will actually take a GOAT to break it. If any of these 3 played in a different era they'd have just a stupid number of slams, and somebody else will end up in the positiion to beat that.

I guess it sucks for these guys, but we saw what may be the greatest era in any sport ever.

Aka the GOAT generation :)
 
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Fighter

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Final slam numbers may not be enough, there's a significant competition difference. Novak's top competitors clearly will be past prime Roger and Nadal... and they're still adding slams themselves... it's an arguement that will always go against him, so he really needs to play as well for as long as Fed to have a chance to take the title.

Dude, you're seriously delusional if you think that Feds and Nadal 2011-2012 etc were past their prime. Really, get yourself a clue. Saying that Nole didn't have rivals is crazy considering that a certain Murray was among them too, not to mention that "prime" Feds from 2003-2007 had nearly nobody except a strictly clay specialist Nadal.
Come on now, let's recognize the greatness of all three and that's it. As for now I still consider Feds as the GOAT, but when it comes to "peak", Nole 2011 and 2015 is difficult to match (just look at his record that year and who he beat...).
 

Maestro84

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He was ridiculously good before 2013. 2011 was arguably his best year ever.
He was insane during that stretch for sure but between the 2012 French Open and the 2014 French Open, Nole had won only one slam, while losing in 5 other finals (he also lost a couple really tight semis to Rafa and Stan along the way as well). He “only” had 6 majors at this time 5 years ago while Nadal and Roger were already at 14 and 17, respectively. Novak was also 27 at the time and back then, it was still common for players (even the top ones) to start drastically declining once they hit their late 20’s.

So even though Novak was already an established ATG, it was difficult to see him actually be in legit contention for the GOAT title 5-6 years ago
 

TaLoN

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Dude, you're seriously delusional if you think that Feds and Nadal 2011-2012 etc were past their prime. Really, get yourself a clue. Saying that Nole didn't have rivals is crazy considering that a certain Murray was among them too, not to mention that "prime" Feds from 2003-2007 had nearly nobody except a strictly clay specialist Nadal.
Come on now, let's recognize the greatness of all three and that's it. As for now I still consider Feds as the GOAT, but when it comes to "peak", Nole 2011 and 2015 is difficult to match (just look at his record that year and who he beat...).
Feds prime years were 2004-2007 in 2008 you could see he was starting to lose a step...

Hence why when he lost in 08, people thought it was the end of his slam chances... as historically happened in tennis.
 

Beau Knows

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16 slams now for Novak. He could be heading to the French next year at 18. Passing Nadal is a gaurnentee imo and he most likely gets more than 20. Amazing.
 

Fighter

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Feds prime years were 2004-2007 in 2008 you could see he was starting to lose a step...

Hence why when he lost in 08, people thought it was the end of his slam chances... as historically happened in tennis.

Geez, he really had tough competition in those "prime" years. Baghdatis, Philippousis and such? Not to belittle his greatness, but some of his fans are so delusional...
 

TaLoN

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Geez, he really had tough competition in those "prime" years. Baghdatis, Philippousis and such? Not to belittle his greatness, but some of his fans are so delusional...
Rafa was winning slams already during that time... I'd that competition.
 

Beau Knows

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Geez, he really had tough competition in those "prime" years. Baghdatis, Philippousis and such? Not to belittle his greatness, but some of his fans are so delusional...

Ok, so is Federer one of the best ever or is Djokovic's biggest competition at Wimbeldon somehow a 37 year old who was apparently never very good to begin with? You can't have it both ways, either Federer is still #3 in the world 12+ years past his prime because he's a GOAT or because there is nobody else around right now. Which is it?
 
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Beau Knows

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I can't see a newcomer winning a slam soon. I think a member of the big 3 will win the US Open and all of next years slams as well. Sucks being a youngster right now.
 

Novak Djokovic

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Feds prime years were 2004-2007 in 2008 you could see he was starting to lose a step...

Hence why when he lost in 08, people thought it was the end of his slam chances... as historically happened in tennis.

Not Federer's fault, but that was pretty weak era of tennis. Heck, Andy Murray is a better player that Novak had to deal with in his prime than Fed had anyone besides clay Rafa.
 

TaLoN

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Not Federer's fault, but that was pretty weak era of tennis. Heck, Andy Murray is a better player that Novak had to deal with in his prime than Fed had anyone besides clay Rafa.
Tennis players peaks are usually only 3-4 years because of how physically demanding the sport is... lose a step and your career can vanish in a blink.

Was that era weak because there wasn't any other quality players, or does it just appear weak because Federer was so historically better than any other single player on the planet when he was at his best?

It's like the Gretzky scoring argument... when people say scoring was so easy in the 80's, yet years later a broken down Gretzky with a bad back was still putting up 91pts in the dead puck era.

Gretzky was just that good.

Federer as a grizzled old man by tennis standards is proving that same level of greatness still himself... his success at his age is unheard of, and has been the case for several years now at this point.

He's the only player who was active on tour in '99 to still be playing. Most of them retired like 6-7 years ago!
 

Fighter

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Ok, so is Federer one of the best ever or is Djokovic's biggest competition at Wimbeldon somehow a 37 year old who was apparently never very good to begin with? You can't have it both ways, either Federer is still #3 in the world 12+ years past his prime because he's a GOAT or because there is nobody else around right now. Which is it?

Nole had started to win way back in the days, Feds was not even 30 when Nole came up winning.

Rafa was winning slams already during that time... I'd that competition.

Rafa was winning the Roland Garros and that's about it. He started to win outside clay after 2007 but yeah, I guess a 27yo Feds was already washed up for you. :loony:
As for the current "weak era", the big three have won 10 or 11 of the last Slams, it's not their fault if their level is the highest in History... heh. Besides, even Feds won 3 slams between 2017-2018, would you consider them shit because Nole went MIA?
 

TaLoN

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Nole had started to win way back in the days, Feds was not even 30 when Nole came up winning.



Rafa was winning the Roland Garros and that's about it. He started to win outside clay after 2007 but yeah, I guess a 27yo Feds was already washed up for you. :loony:
As for the current "weak era", the big three have won 10 or 11 of the last Slams, it's not their fault if their level is the highest in History... heh. Besides, even Feds won 3 slams between 2017-2018, would you consider them **** because Nole went MIA?
Look at the history of tennis. Most tennis greats aged out of competing for slams before they turned 30... most were retired by 32... very few exceptions.
 
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TaLoN

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If you have to play two other ATG to reach a final I wouldn't consider it a weak era. A weak era is when somebody who have never sniffed a Slam like Marcelo Rios reached world's number 1.
Well then we can consider Federer's amazing win over Sampras too... and his wins against Agassi.

Most people talk about how those were unfair because of the age difference, but since you think age has no impact...
 
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Fighter

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Beating Sampras and Agassi is one thing, beating Baghdatis and Philippousis another. Beating a 37yo Federer certainly shouldn't be a huge feat ON PAPER, but if anybody watched the match today would tell you otherwise. Today, as a Nole fan, I appreciate Feds greatness even more, he looked 27. Unbelievable stuff. He just lacked clutchness badly, not the first time in his career he shat his pants... (shades of US Open 11 semis with Nole).
 

TaLoN

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Today, as a Nole fan, I appreciate Feds greatness even more,
That's all any of us are saying! This performance at such an age is completely unheard of in history! It adds to Feds arguement as THE GOAT, and adds another step in the ladder of what needs to happen if anyone wants to take that title from him.

Slam numbers will get you in the conversation, but at this point, with what Fed had proven within slams and beyond, there's so much more that's needed to be achieved to take it.
 

Novak Djokovic

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Is this year a strong year? 2nd best grass player is 37?

I don't get why we're so obsessed with age. I would argue Federer was playing better at Wimbledon in 2015 than he was during some of his tournament wins earlier in his career.

Anyways, Nole needs one full year at #1 to take over most weeks at number 1 in history of tennis. Looks feasible, but we also didn't think he'd have such a huge dip in 2016 for 1.5 years.
 
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Fighter

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That's all any of us are saying! This performance at such an age is completely unheard of in history! It adds to Feds arguement as THE GOAT, and adds another step in the ladder of what needs to happen if anyone wants to take that title from him.

Slam numbers will get you in the conversation, but at this point, with what Fed had proven within slams and beyond, there's so much more that's needed to be achieved to take it.

Wait. I FULLY agree on what you say: mind that I'm not that fond on Feds, despite considering him the GOAT AND the most beautiful player to watch, what I will forever go against is the concept that this is a weak era and that Feds had a tougher competition back then, that is utter BS. The period 2011-2016 with Feds, Nadal, Nole, Murray, Wawrinka is IMO among the toughest eras ever. It's not their fault if the big 4 first and then the big 3 were and still are THAT so much better than the other mortals.
 

TaLoN

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Wait. I FULLY agree on what you say: mind that I'm not that fond on Feds, despite considering him the GOAT AND the most beautiful player to watch, what I will forever go against is the concept that this is a weak era and that Feds had a tougher competition back then, that is utter BS. The period 2011-2016 with Feds, Nadal, Nole, Murray, Wawrinka is IMO among the toughest eras ever. It's not their fault if the big 4 first and then the big 3 were and still are THAT so much better than the other mortals.
I never called either era weak, I just stated that Novak peaking at a different time than Feds and Nadal will hurt him in the long run when the debate starts talking head to head.

If head to head isn't during both players peaks, it carries less weight.

That's why I put zero weight in Federer's win over Sampras, and not a lot of weight in his wins over Agassi. Two drastically different points of their careers.
 

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