Wilson gets 20 games

[chilimac]

Well, I didnt give much thought beforehand to how long the appeal meeting might last, but 7 hours ? I think thats ...uh..impressive. Until I hear otherwise I'm going to assume Tom's legal team put on a thorough presentaion. The explanation given by the league when they handed down the suspension clearly stated that the 20 games were warranted because this latest hit was Tom's fourth in 'x-number of games', and that rate was 'unprecedented',,,yadda...yadday..yadda. As far as I'm concerned, that means Tom certainly has the right to go back and critique each of those hits and claim the league was in error on any, or all of them. I would imagine that process would consume a few hours at least. I seem to remember at least one of the preseason hits from last season as being not that egregious in my opinion. Then we have the seemingly inconsistent way suspenions are, or are not doled out in the NHL, and that could have been a couple more hours of presentation. Or, maybe, they all just got liquored up in the commissioners office and played texas holdem' for 5 or 6 hours...i dont know! If I'm Tom, Im already planning to take this to arbitration , or at least thats what I want the league to think...

 

[AtNightWeFly]

7 hours? Willy must've dug up Johnnie Cochran to be on his legal team and he put in work!

 

[Jags]

Oh it's that simple?

Yes. On both of these suspensions, he lined hits up way before they actually took place. He accelerates, lines them up, and at that point they either get off the tracks or get hit by the train. He doesn't have the right of way, it's on him to make sure he's not hurting people, it's his responsibility to make sure he's not hitting high, and he has time to alter his course and the point of impact.

"Sorry, dude! You took on the train and lost! Enjoy your concussion and destroyed jaw and eating through a straw!"

"Sorry, dude! You weren't looking! You made a mistake! You deserve your concussion and shoulder injury because that's what Tom does and it's on you to compensate for his poor choices and execution."

Yes, it's a fast-paced game, but he lined those hits up well in advance and had every opportunity to pull up and/or hit more responsibly.

I don't think he intended to hurt anyone, but he absolutely intended for those hits to be exactly what they were. He put it completely on them to spare themselves pretty serious injuries. He has to own his part it in, and his part consists of recklessness and poor choices. He checks like head-hunting safeties in football hit -- it's all upper body. That's poor form in hockey, especially when you're bigger/taller than most guys, and even more so if you're trying to avoid penalties and suspensions in today's NHL.

Yes, the two victims made poor choices, too. But their stupidity wasn't predatory. Their stupidity only endangered themselves. Tom's puts others in danger. He does what he does the way he does it, everyone else be damned. It's on them to get out of his way or pay the price. And that'd probably be okay if his checking tendencies weren't so dangerous.

 

[traparatus]

Yes. On both of these suspensions, he lined hits up way before they actually took place. He accelerates, lines them up, and at that point they either get off the tracks or get hit by the train. He doesn't have the right of way, it's on him to make sure he's not hurting people, it's his responsibility to make sure he's not hitting high and that his target can see him, and he has time to alter his course and the point of impact.

The injuries are on him. The high points of contact are on him. That the hits are happening at all, the speed, the severity... It's all on him.

"Sorry, dude! You took on the train and lost! Enjoy your concussion and destroyed jaw and eating through a straw!"

"Sorry, dude! You weren't looking! You made a mistake! You deserve your concussion and shoulder injury because that's what Tom does and it's on you to compensate for his poor choices and execution."

These are your arguments. Yes, it's a fast-paced game, but he lined those hits up well in advance and had every opportunity to pull up and/or hit more responsibly.

I don't think he intended to hurt anyone, but he absolutely intended for those hits to be exactly what they were. He put it completely on them to spare themselves pretty serious injuries. He has to own his part it in, and his part consists of recklessness and poor choices. He checks like head-hunting safeties in football hit -- it's all upper body. That's poor form in hockey, especially when you're bigger/taller than most guys, and even more so if you're trying to avoid penalties and suspensions in today's NHL.

Yes, the two victims made poor choices, too. But their stupidity wasn't predatory. Their stupidity put themselves in danger. Tom's puts others in danger. He does what he does the way he does it, everyone else be damned. It's on them to get out of his way or pay the price. And that'd probably be okay if his checking tendencies weren't so dangerous.

I appreciate the amount of thought you put in your argument and I want to add one more thing.

If there were 30 players in the league who hit the way that Wilson hits, NHL would have to come up with rule changes to address this issue. There aren't 30. There is just one. If the choice is between creating an all new set of rules and simply banning one player, it's no choice at all.

Personally, I believe that all of Tom's questionable hits are charges. He commits to plays very early and he carries way too much speed to make on-the-fly adjustments when situation calls for it.

While I believe that a 20 game suspension was out of line, it doesn't bother me very much. All that a short suspension would accomplish is to slightly postpone the situation we are currently in. Given a choice, I would rather be missing Wilson for the first 20 games of the regular season than for the last 10 of the playoffs. Adjustments have to be made and he is the one who has to make them.

 

[4thTierSport]

This. Plus again, kid ended up with a separated shoulder which would seem to indicate that the primary contact was with the shoulder and the head contact happened secondarily and potentially as a consequence of the injury caused by the primary contact. Similarly, Willy got 3 playoff games for a hit in which the hittee was a full and active participant but lost the confrontation. It’s all one-sided. Willy comes in for a clean hit and the other players somehow bear no responsibility when their actions create a dangerous situation.

Oh, it was a seperated shoulder? I didn’t follow up but him going on ltir the day after screams not a concussion. Maybe if he had a history but I couldn’t find anything. It takes a pretty sizeable impact to seperate a shoulder in that manner. Especially an athlete that has put some time in to building muscle. You have to love injury matters until it doesn’t.

I would love to hear the rationale behind the league’s handling of Marchand so I could laugh in their face because that is what it would deserve. In what world does it make sense to suspend that blatant cheap shot elbow after the play for 5 games on his SIXTH GOD DAMN SUSPENSION! I’ll give him a very slight pass on the low bridge because of his height but what other suspensions and fines are remotely close to hockey plays?

We see the exact reason why Bettman is the initial person to hear appeals. Delay the process so as many games stick as possible. They don’t care about paying back money. They just don’t want the player on the ice. Thankfully the NHL schedule is so jacked up to start this year it might not reach 20 games prior to an independent hearing. It just makes the league look petty and incompetent. Not to mention I really doubt a 20 gamer is handed out with Bettman being involved in some degree.

 

[Ajax1995]

I love the ‘Wilson is the real victim’ sentiment by so many around here. Our society rules...

 

[Ridley Simon]

Oh come on....hyperbole much? No one is saying Wilson is the real victim.

All people are saying-- is that the rules are as clear as mud, the way the rules are carried out is even worse, and the punishments for breaking said rules are wildly inconsistent.

If you think that's all false, then lets hear why?

 

[maacoshark]

Yes. On both of these suspensions, he lined hits up way before they actually took place. He accelerates, lines them up, and at that point they either get off the tracks or get hit by the train. He doesn't have the right of way, it's on him to make sure he's not hurting people, it's his responsibility to make sure he's not hitting high, and he has time to alter his course and the point of impact.

"Sorry, dude! You took on the train and lost! Enjoy your concussion and destroyed jaw and eating through a straw!"

"Sorry, dude! You weren't looking! You made a mistake! You deserve your concussion and shoulder injury because that's what Tom does and it's on you to compensate for his poor choices and execution."

Yes, it's a fast-paced game, but he lined those hits up well in advance and had every opportunity to pull up and/or hit more responsibly.

I don't think he intended to hurt anyone, but he absolutely intended for those hits to be exactly what they were. He put it completely on them to spare themselves pretty serious injuries. He has to own his part it in, and his part consists of recklessness and poor choices. He checks like head-hunting safeties in football hit -- it's all upper body. That's poor form in hockey, especially when you're bigger/taller than most guys, and even more so if you're trying to avoid penalties and suspensions in today's NHL.

Yes, the two victims made poor choices, too. But their stupidity wasn't predatory. Their stupidity only endangered themselves. Tom's puts others in danger. He does what he does the way he does it, everyone else be damned. It's on them to get out of his way or pay the price. And that'd probably be okay if his checking tendencies weren't so dangerous.

Apparently you have never laced up the skates before. It is definitely not as easy as you think. It is pretty easy to say that watching a replay multiple times and slowing it down. When you are on the ice you dont have the luxury of slowing things down.
Of course Wilson had him lined up for a big hit. Once he us in the motion of going for the hit there is no stopping. The laws of physics wont allow it. If the player that is about to get hit changes the position of his body it could end up being a dangerous hit. This happens on a lot of hits. Check out videos of guys getting hit from behind. A lot of those hits are because the player turned his back just before the hit. There is no way the player making the hit can avoid but they penalize him anyway.
The only way this is simple is if Wilson takes hitting out of his game completely.

 

[RandyHolt]

The human body is a piece of work. It's of questionable design, what with our pencil legs and all, and vulnerable head up top. We are gangly, and are very accident and injury prone. The bigger we are the harder we fall. You think you are a big bad ass tough guy, let someone poke you with a tiny pin.

At least we are graced with built in helmets. My kid going to the bathroom in the middle of the night, hit his head on 2 door knobs lol. Our cranium is damn strong and of superior design but only does so much to protect our jostle-able brainage. Our heads atop of gangly bodies afford us great vision, at least.

Hockey players that don't have their head on a swivel using our superior vision, probably aren't hockey players for long. Maybe Tom needs to stop f***ing around and target the players that know how to protect themselves, like S1d, The Rat, etc.

 

[g00n]

I appreciate the amount of thought you put in your argument and I want to add one more thing.

If there were 30 players in the league who hit the way that Wilson hits, NHL would have to come up with rule changes to address this issue. There aren't 30. There is just one. If the choice is between creating an all new set of rules and simply banning one player, it's no choice at all.

Personally, I believe that all of Tom's questionable hits are charges. He commits to plays very early and he carries way too much speed to make on-the-fly adjustments when situation calls for it.

While I believe that a 20 game suspension was out of line, it doesn't bother me very much. All that a short suspension would accomplish is to slightly postpone the situation we are currently in. Given a choice, I would rather be missing Wilson for the first 20 games of the regular season than for the last 10 of the playoffs. Adjustments have to be made and he is the one who has to make them.

This is very similar to my previous argument. Wilson is being punished for hurting other players. Whether or not he's technically within the rules is a detail of the process of getting him to stop.

The league is stuck with a guy who is an exception to their rules and the most attractive option at the moment is to try go deal with that one guy rather than change the rules entirely (which they probably will eventually, imo).

The rules are written to give the refs leeway in many cases. Charging is one of those rules, so yes, many hits that go uncalled could be charges. Same with some of the other physical fouls. But because Wilson's hits are so forceful he often ends up blowing right through legal contact areas and into illegal ones, which causes damage. That is where the disconnect is, and why you have a 7hr appeal hearing.

So it's not "simple" when you consider the details, even if it's simple when reduced to the idea that they are trying to stop Wilson from hitting and using the flawed rules as the stick to enforce it.

 

[Jags]

Apparently you have never laced up the skates before.

The bulk of my childhood and 3 years of college.

It is definitely not as easy as you think.

Yes it is.

It is pretty easy to say that watching a replay multiple times and slowing it down.

Watch both hits at full speed and look at how far ahead of each hit he lines them up. PLENTY of time to make a better decision. PLENTY of time to alter his course, speed, or center of gravity. It's not a split-second thing. Seconds pass between the decision and the hit.

If you've played a lot, then you know exactly what I'm talking about. You cannot have played this game extensively and never come across that perfect hit that you line up from clear across the ice because everyone else -- especially the target -- is focused on the play and not you.

The person that has a split-second to react is the target, who either sees you right before impact or never sees you at all. Your attention is 100% on them the whole way through and they're barely registering you. Most guys pull up and follow the play. Of those that choose to hit, most pull up and settle for a lesser impact, skating through it, forcing a lower center of gravity.

Wilson goes through people like a cruise missile. He stops skating to shift his weight upward and rises into hits because he wants the pop, like every badass NFL safety that ever lived. Choosing to hit, not pulling up one iota, and choosing to hit high... bad combo that gets him into trouble.

Once he us in the motion of going for the hit there is no stopping. The laws of physics wont allow it.

The only way this is simple is if Wilson takes hitting out of his game completely.

Both of these statements are absolute nonsense.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Jags!

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I love the ‘Wilson is the real victim’ sentiment by so many around here. Our society rules...

Gimme a break.....the self righteous boards are somewhere else...if anything, today’s society is too hung up with making everyone a victim.

 

[maacoshark]

The bulk of my childhood and 3 years of college.



Yes it is.



Watch both hits at full speed and look at how far ahead of each hit he lines them up. PLENTY of time to make a better decision. PLENTY of time to alter his course, speed, or center of gravity. It's not a split-second thing. Seconds pass between the decision and the hit.

If you've played a lot, then you know exactly what I'm talking about. You cannot have played this game extensively and never come across that perfect hit that you line up from clear across the ice because everyone else -- especially the target -- is focused on the play and not you.

The person that has a split-second to react is the target, who either sees you right before impact or never sees you at all. Your attention is 100% on them the whole way through and they're barely registering you. Most guys pull up and follow the play. Of those that choose to hit, most pull up and settle for a lesser impact, skating through it, forcing a lower center of gravity.

Wilson goes through people like a cruise missile. He stops skating to shift his weight upward and rises into hits because he wants the pop, like every badass NFL safety that ever lived. Choosing to hit, not pulling up one iota, and choosing to hit high... bad combo that gets him into trouble.




Both of these statements are absolute nonsense.

I have watched this hit over and over. And he had him lined up head on for a hit to the chest. Just before the hit Sundqvist turned his body to shoot the puck. It was too Kate for Wilson to stop. There was no way he could avoid that hit. Yes the problem with Wilson is that he elevates his body during contact. We all know that.
You are making it sound as if Wilson can break the laws of physics and hold up after he is in the motion of making a hit. Sorry Jags but it doesnt work that way. You also seem to think that Wilson should try to blow everyone up. But that's his game. It always has been his game. If he played differently he wouldnt be effective.
These comments about Wilson having plenty if time to hold up is nonsense. Do you have any idea the distance you can travel in one second at that speed? Those comments are coming from a spectator that has never played the game. Like I said before a lot of players put themselves in a vulnerable position for a big hit and a possible injury.
In this particular case Sundqvist did put himself in a vulnerable position. Unfortunately Wilson got him high. Answer this Jags. If Sundqvist didnt turn his body and Wilson went through his chest and destroyed him and injured him, would your opinion on the hit be any different?

 

[txpd]

Bentsie needs a week to read the transcripts. Hilarious, he is fooling no one. If he hasn't already made up his mind I question what he was doing for those 7 hours. Or who is calling the shots.

The jury now deliberates

One of these days, RH, you are going to have to let Mario hate go.

 

[RandyHolt]

One of these days, RH, you are going to have to let Mario hate go.

When they undo all his rule changes, I will.

Ironic in the wilson thread here... he wanted the clutching and grabbing gone, and now no one can slow down a forward at all before watching a teammate get destroyed. It's a crazy theory, but maybe slowing down a forechecker made the game safer.

Save the tackled on breakaways killed all the scoring spiel from the era when scoring was never higher.

 

[txpd]

When they undo all his rule changes, I will.

Ironic in the wilson thread here... he wanted the clutching and grabbing gone, and now no one can slow down a forward at all before watching a teammate get destroyed. It's a crazy theory, but maybe slowing down a forechecker made the game safer.

Save the tackled on breakaways killed all the scoring spiel from the era when scoring was never higher.

I am as big a fan of Bobby Gould for the one fight as anyone, but clutching and grabbing wrecked the game for me too. Watching Mike Gartner just get tackled disgusted me. The 3rd period put the whistles away disgusted me. You liked that stuff? Did Mario not liking something you didn't like change your mind on it?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I am as big a fan of Bobby Gould for the one fight as anyone, but clutching and grabbing wrecked the game for me too. Watching Mike Gartner just get tackled disgusted me. The 3rd period put the whistles away disgusted me. You liked that stuff? Did Mario not liking something you didn't like change your mind on it?

All those things annoyed me as a fan, but at least they were consistent. The inconsistency is more maddening to me today. The numbers guys like 99 and 66 would have put up with today’s “space”....mind boggling...

 

[txpd]

All those things annoyed me as a fan, but at least they were consistent. The inconsistency is more maddening to me today.

I remember trying explain hockey to friends while watching games. A penalty is only a penalty some times. Yes, if you are on the power play the defending team may legally dismember you.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

When they undo all his rule changes, I will.

Ironic in the wilson thread here... he wanted the clutching and grabbing gone, and now no one can slow down a forward at all before watching a teammate get destroyed. It's a crazy theory, but maybe slowing down a forechecker made the game safer.

Save the tackled on breakaways killed all the scoring spiel from the era when scoring was never higher.

MHL- Mario Hockey League

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I remember trying explain hockey to friends while watching games. A penalty is only a penalty some times. Yes, if you are on the power play the defending team may legally dismember you.

I don’t think I would have tried to explain....lol....but they all pretty much called it the same way....

 

[Ajax1995]

Gimme a break.....the self righteous boards are somewhere else...if anything, today’s society is too hung up with making everyone a victim.

You have your opinion I have mine. I feel like I’m just watching a bunch of episodes of When Keeping it Real Goes Wrong staring Wilson. But sure we can all agree that in a prefect world Tom should be able to keep it real...

 

[Calicaps]

Oh come on....hyperbole much? No one is saying Wilson is the real victim.

All people are saying-- is that the rules are as clear as mud, the way the rules are carried out is even worse, and the punishments for breaking said rules are wildly inconsistent.

If you think that's all false, then lets hear why?

It's this. And I think the biggest issue as others have alluded to, and probably why the meeting went all day yesterday, is that the league doesn't have any more clear sense of its own rules than we or the players do and has no reasonable metric by which to evaluate or provide meaningful guidance for a player like Big Willy.

 

[RandyHolt]

I am as big a fan of Bobby Gould for the one fight as anyone, but clutching and grabbing wrecked the game for me too. Watching Mike Gartner just get tackled disgusted me. The 3rd period put the whistles away disgusted me. You liked that stuff? Did Mario not liking something you didn't like change your mind on it?

I loved the league in that era. The single ref, the players getting away with things, everything actually. I was an NHL addict.

The open ice era half puts me to sleep.... I need action - yes even if its a guy being held and a guy turning around and slashing him. You can't even do a light stick check now. Heaven forbid the easily breakable composite stick.... breaks.

Here is the thing, and its largely true even now. When push comes to shove, the refs still bury the whistles. Admittedly, less so now, but no less widely inconsistent. Why call things differently than they did in the 9 months before that?

You know damn well some of the best games you watched featured the whistles put away. Us losing most of them, aside. Love the buried whistles - which allows players to do anything to win. As long as its even for both sides, what do we care? Instead of the modern day skate fests, we saw battles.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Old time Eddie shore hockey!