Speculation: Willy Nilly XX

[Antropovsky]

There’s no offer sheet coming to save the day. For one, no-one wants to pick a fight with the financial might of the Leafs, fearing one of their own would be poached in retaliation. And the money just doesn’t work for anyone.

Which does not make a lot of sense, considering there is a cap... Leafs wouldn't be able to afford to retaliate in that way/no matter how much money the "leaf business" is worth.

 

[Antropovsky]

your opinion is weak, lets look at Pastrnak, he has already outgrown his contract, im sure Willie is looking at him as a example.

William isn't Pastrnak. If you are afraid of outgrowing your contract... then you sign short term and take the risk of career ending injuries and losing out long term.

William can't have his cake and eat it too.

 

[aingefan]

You can find it funny if you want, just like I'm entitled to feel sorry for you and what you find funny

I don't care about you or what you think and if that stupidity makes you feel better have at it

Thanks for contribution, sunshine.

 

[PromisedLand]

You entirely ignored the second part of my post, which is equally important. You stated he should be happy with 6.5m and the chance to win the Cup on a contender (the Leafs). Do you know what a 6.5m contract makes William Nylander? An extremely tradeable asset if Dubas decides we need a Dman. Why should he take a "discount" to play for a contender, when that contender could then turn around and trade him to Arizona next week?

Dubas has countless times said that he will not trade Nylander; there are reports that the face-to-face meeting was to ensure Willy that Dubas will not turn around and deal Nylander who is on a decent cap hit.

Hypothetical but if Dubas does that he loses credibility in future negotiations with any of his players as they and their agents will not trust a word Dubas says; Dubas is not stupid enough to make false promises.

Here is a direct quote from Dubas: "as long as I am here, William is part of the core and is not going to be traded"

 

[realgoodleafs]

You entirely ignored the second part of my post, which is equally important. You stated he should be happy with 6.5m and the chance to win the Cup on a contender (the Leafs). Do you know what a 6.5m contract makes William Nylander? An extremely tradeable asset if Dubas decides we need a Dman. Why should he take a "discount" to play for a contender, when that contender could then turn around and trade him to Arizona next week?

6.5 isn't a discount.

 

[Kiwi]

Thanks for contribution, sunshine.

Here to help sport

 

[Throw More Waffles]

your opinion is weak, lets look at Pastrnak, he has already outgrown his contract, im sure Willie is looking at him as a example.

Pastrnak hasn't outgrown his contract. 6.6 per year putting up those numbers is realistic for a restricted free agent. It's your ufa years where you can play the entire market against itself.

Rfa's make less than ufa's because they have far less bargaining power because 1 team owns their rights in the nhl. Let's also add that they aren't nearly as proven as ufa's, and teams don't entirely know what they have yet.

Every player coming off of their elc argues that they'll be far better in the near future (including Ehlers and Pastrnak). That has already been taken into consideration when determining their market value. So, again, none of this is unique to Nylander.

You seem to want to revamp the entire system and have rfa's paid the same as ufa's. Or, much more likely, you just don't really understand what you're talking about.

Let's also add that it sounds like the leafs are fine with offering a bridge deal to give Nylander another chance to prove that he's more than a (lol) 20 goal/60 point guy. It sounds like it's Nylanders camp that doesn't want a bridge.

 

[Havoc]

Dubas has countless times said that he will not trade Nylander; there are reports that the face-to-face meeting was to ensure Willy that Dubas will not turn around and deal Nylander who is on a decent cap hit.

Hypothetical but if Dubas does that he loses credibility in future negotiations with any of his players as they and their agents will not trust a word Dubas says; Dubas is not stupid enough to make false promises.

Here is a direct quote from Dubas: "as long as I am here, William is part of the core and is not going to be traded"

I was thinking how absurd it was for Dubas to fly all the way to Swiss just to tell Nylander something he could have skype'd or texted. Who hops on a plane for a meeting if you're not carrying papers and a pen with you?

Then it hit me...there really is no way to guarantee a trade does not happen. Simple fact is no NTC or NMC allowed.

Hopping on a plane halfway across the world is a very great way to show the player you are 100% serious about keeping your word.

So, I agree with your post. No way Dubas has any intention of stabbing Will in the back.

 

[PromisedLand]

Except for one thing - Their isn't one team in the league that will pay him $8mil

If Leafs were to deal him that would be his new team's problem not a Leafs problem

 

[Fogelhund]

You entirely ignored the second part of my post, which is equally important. You stated he should be happy with 6.5m and the chance to win the Cup on a contender (the Leafs). Do you know what a 6.5m contract makes William Nylander? An extremely tradeable asset if Dubas decides we need a Dman. Why should he take a "discount" to play for a contender, when that contender could then turn around and trade him to Arizona next week?

Yes, that makes him tradeable... and $7.5 means you can't keep him, so you must trade him... probably before the contract is even signed. Catch 22.

 

[Fogelhund]

If Leafs were to deal him that would be his new team's problem not a Leafs problem

It would still be the Leafs problem, because we wouldn't get near the return we would, at a $6.5 mil contract.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If after the face to face Nylander refuses to sign then that tells me he has made up his mind and will be sitting out the year.

He's not going to decide to sit out the year. He could get $6.5M right now. If he sits out a season, that's $6.5M he loses. Minus whatever he gets in Europe. To just break even, he'd have to get a $7.5M contract over 6 years next year, and he'll have made no progress on earning that.

He's not going to sit out a season. It's literally his worst option.

 

[PromisedLand]

I was thinking how absurd it was for Dubas to fly all the way to Swiss just to tell Nylander something he could have skype'd or texted. Who hops on a plane for a meeting if you're not carrying papers and a pen with you?

Then it hit me...there really is no way to guarantee a trade does not happen. Simple fact is no NTC or NMC allowed.

Hopping on a plane halfway across the world is a very great way to show the player you are 100% serious about keeping your word.

So, I agree with your post. No way Dubas has any intention of stabbing Will in the back.

It is common practice in businesses to get a deal done face-to-face. Dubas going all the way to Zurich to ensure Willy that it isn't Dubas' plan to trade him shows good faith by him, his belief in Willy and his vision for the future as Willy being part of the core.

Also, presenting different scenarios to Willy would not have been done on skype; it would have been better to go to Willy and show how he and others (in future) will potentially fit under the cap with minimal cap increases and then answer any queries Willy had right there face to face so that Willy can read dubas' body language as well .

As far as I am concerned the ball is now in Nylander camp's court; and they have to decide whether being a Leaf and keeping the band together is as important to them as the Leafs or does $ mean more

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

your opinion is weak, lets look at Pastrnak, he has already outgrown his contract, im sure Willie is looking at him as a example.

it seems like you don't understand how RFA contracts work. players "outgrow" them pretty much all the time. that's the nature of the market, since they have no leverage in negotiations.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

If Leafs were to deal him that would be his new team's problem not a Leafs problem

Yes, but that's probably why his trade value is very low right now.

It's the same reason that right after a ufa is signed, there's no trade market for him. Any team that would be willing to lose assets for that contract would have just offered the contract. Nylander probably isn't worth 8 million a year by that contract alone... let alone giving up additional assets for him.

 

[PromisedLand]

It would still be the Leafs problem, because we wouldn't get near the return we would, at a $6.5 mil contract.

Why in the world would Leafs trade Nylander when he is on that cap hit?

 

[diceman934]

Dubas has countless times said that he will not trade Nylander; there are reports that the face-to-face meeting was to ensure Willy that Dubas will not turn around and deal Nylander who is on a decent cap hit.

Hypothetical but if Dubas does that he loses credibility in future negotiations with any of his players as they and their agents will not trust a word Dubas says; Dubas is not stupid enough to make false promises.

Here is a direct quote from Dubas: "as long as I am here, William is part of the core and is not going to be traded"

Except Willy has to sign a contract. If not all bets are off.

Dubas has said many silly things thus far...if Willy does not want to sign for what he is worth he will be shopped around the league and when we get an acceptable offer he will be traded. His promise is only IF Willy signs a deal at his value.

He Loses nothing if Willy fails to sign a contract at his value. In fact he gains a better reputation for sticking to his guns.

 

[LeafsHome]

Which does not make a lot of sense, considering there is a cap... Leafs wouldn't be able to afford to retaliate in that way/no matter how much money the "leaf business" is worth.

No player has signed an offer sheet in the last 5 years - Having one of your top RFAs offer-sheeted is a very upsetting experience for GMs. You have to choose between losing a star player in his prime or paying him more money than you’d like. The whole point of RFA status (like most of the CBA) is to facilitate teams holding onto their players for less than market value. Offer sheets ruin that for you

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You entirely ignored the second part of my post, which is equally important. You stated he should be happy with 6.5m and the chance to win the Cup on a contender (the Leafs). Do you know what a 6.5m contract makes William Nylander? An extremely tradeable asset if Dubas decides we need a Dman. Why should he take a "discount" to play for a contender, when that contender could then turn around and trade him to Arizona next week?

This argument isn't unique to Nylander. Players cannot have ntc's/nmc's until they have 7 years experience, or are 27. Are you suggesting that every team has to pay every single one of their young players inflated contracts in order to assure them they won't/can't be traded? You really don't think that sounds nuts?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Pastrnak hasn't outgrown his contract. 6.6 per year putting up those numbers is realistic for a restricted free agent. It's your ufa years where you can play the entire market against itself.

Rfa's make less than ufa's because they have far less bargaining power because 1 team owns their rights in the nhl. Let's also add that they aren't nearly as proven as ufa's, and teams don't entirely know what they have yet.

Every player coming off of their elc argues that they'll be far better in the near future (including Ehlers and Pastrnak). That has already been taken into consideration when determining their market value. So, again, none of this is unique to Nylander.

You seem to want to revamp the entire system and have rfa's paid the same as ufa's. Or, much more likely, you just don't really understand what you're talking about.

you are making no points and just blabbing on now ... i'm done with you and don't insult in a discussion, [mod] have a good one

 

[Kiwi]

He's not going to decide to sit out the year. He could get $6.5M right now. If he sits out a season, that's $6.5M he loses. Minus whatever he gets in Europe. To just break even, he'd have to get a $7.5M contract over 6 years next year, and he'll have made no progress on earning that.

He's not going to sit out a season. It's literally his worst option.

I can't understand how people don't understand that fact, it makes no sense for Nylander to sit this year and be in exactly the same situation next season

None

Even Trouba who wanted out of Winnipeg didn't sit an entire year

 

[Mr Hockey]

it seems like you don't understand how RFA contracts work. players "outgrow" them pretty much all the time. that's the nature of the market, since they have no leverage in negotiations.

this discussion is not for you, trust me...

 

[Antropovsky]

Here to help sport

 

[Throw More Waffles]

you are making no points and just blabbing on now ... i'm done with you and don't insult in a discussion, [mod] have a good one

It was a fair criticism. Based on what you've written, I think it's very possible that you don't understand the difference between an rfa and ufa.

If you did understand the difference between an rfa and ufa, yet still wrote what you wrote... then... I... I really don't know what to say.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yes, but that's probably why his trade value is very low right now.

It's the same reason that right after a ufa is signed, there's no trade market for him. Any team that would be willing to lose assets for that contract would have just offered the contract. Nylander probably isn't worth 8 million a year by that contract alone... let alone giving up additional assets for him.

A decent hockey trade can be made IMO. If Leafs hadn't signed JT Leafs had plenty of cap room to make it fit. Find a team that has cap room and make a good hockey trade. Even if that team isnt paying Nylander 8M; I think Nylander would take the 7 X 7 deal because chances of him being dealt by that team would be lower.

Even if Leafs don't get equal value for Nylander; they may get some value + picks; which can then be turned into something closer to Nylander's value.

This is a prime year for the Leafs with both Marner and Matthews on ELC to really go for it; sitting on an asset like Nylander when that asset is not being used is a waste IMO