Will you get vaccinated if one is available in 6 months?

[Treb]

Because the evidence is consistently ignored over and over and over and over. Then the studies which dismiss evidence are used as proof they are safe.

Oh, and those other causes - you mean things like "stress" which are cited over and over by medical researchers as the cause for Graves' Disease. Stress?!? Let's actually look at the pathology and not blame all disease that mainly impact women on their mental health.

Two people in the Phase 3 test for the Gardasil HPV vaccine also developed transverse myelitis, including a young man who ultimately killed himself rather than living with paralysis.

The way these studies are set-up, the burden of proof to show something like transverse myelitis was caused by the vaccine is next to impossible. The only way it will be proved is shear volume and attention from the media. Maybe that finally happens now.

Yeah sure, I meant women stress/mental health when I was actually rebuking this earlier when it was mentioned by another poster.

Or you know, I could mean those:
Transverse myelitis - Symptoms and causes

Viral, bacterial and fungal infections affecting the spinal cord may cause transverse myelitis. In most cases, the inflammatory disorder appears after recovery from the infection.
Viruses associated with transverse myelitis are:

• Herpes viruses, including the one that causes shingles and chickenpox (zoster)
• Cytomegalovirus
• Epstein-Barr
• HIV
• Enteroviruses such as poliovirus and coxsackievirus
• West Nile
• Echovirus
• Zika
• Influenza
• Hepatitis B
• Mumps, measles and rubella

Other viruses may trigger an autoimmune reaction without directly infecting the spinal cord.
Bacterial infections that are associated with transverse myelitis include:

• Lyme disease
• Syphilis
• Tuberculosis
• Actinomyces
• Pertussis
• Tetanus
• Diphtheria

Bacterial skin infections, gastroenteritis and certain types of bacterial pneumonia also may cause transverse myelitis.
Rarely, parasites and fungal infections may infect the spinal cord.
There are a number of inflammatory conditions that appear to cause the disorder:

• Multiple sclerosis is a disorder in which the immune system destroys myelin surrounding nerves in your spinal cord and brain. Transverse myelitis can be the first sign of multiple sclerosis or represent a relapse. Transverse myelitis as a sign of multiple sclerosis usually causes symptoms on only one side of your body.
• Neuromyelitis optica (Devic's disease) is a condition that causes inflammation and myelin loss around the spinal cord and the nerve in your eye that transmits information to your brain. Transverse myelitis associated with neuromyelitis optica usually affects both sides of your body.
  In addition to transverse myelitis, you may experience symptoms of damage to myelin of the optic nerve, including pain in the eye with movement and temporary vision loss. This can happen with or separately from transverse myelitis symptoms. However, some people with neuromyelitis optica don't experience eye-related problems and might have only recurrent episodes of transverse myelitis.
• Autoimmune disorders probably contribute to transverse myelitis in some people. These disorders include lupus, which can affect multiple body systems, and Sjogren's syndrome, which causes severe dryness of the mouth and eyes.
  Transverse myelitis associated with an autoimmune disorder may be a warning sign of neuromyelitis optica. Neuromyelitis optica occurs more frequently in people with other autoimmune diseases.
• Sarcoidosis is a condition that leads to inflammation in many areas of the body, including the spinal cord and optic nerve. It may mimic neuromyelitis optica, but typically sarcoidosis symptoms develop more slowly. The cause of sarcoidosis isn't understood.

Before you accuse me of lying by omission, they also mention vaccines:

• Vaccinations for infectious diseases have occasionally been associated as a possible trigger. However, at this time the association is not strong enough to warrant limiting any vaccine.

Here is another source for you:
Transverse Myelitis, Possible Adverse Reaction to COVID-19 Vaccine, Explained

What causes transverse myelitis?
A large proportion — how large varies with the study — of cases are associated with central nervous system autoimmune disorders, such as multiple sclerosis and neuromyelitis optica spectrum disorder, and other autoimmune disorders, such as sarcoidosis and Sjögren syndrome. In fact, transverse myelitis can be the first demyelinating event that precedes full-blown multiple sclerosis.
Another large fraction of cases — as large as two thirds in some studies — of transverse myelitis cases are labeled idiopathic, meaning that the cause is uncertain. But that is a bit of a misnomer because a large proportion of those idiopathic cases occur after an illness or infection of some kind has occurred. “Nevertheless, these are considered idiopathic because the causative nature of the infection is seldom proven,” says the Wolters Kluwer UpToDate article on transverse myelitis. The thinking is that an infection can trigger an aberrant, unregulated immune response that turns on the body — and, in this case, the spinal cord — instead of taking on the invasive organism.
Some of the infectious agents that have been linked to the development of transverse myelitis include the enteroviruses, the West Nile virus, and the Zika virus. Transverse myelitis can also be a complication of Lyme disease, which is typically caused by bacterium Borrelia burgdorfer
There have been several case reports suggesting that COVID-19 itself could trigger transverse myelitis. For example, in a letter published in May in the Journal of Neurology, German clinicians described the case of a 60-year-old man who recovered quickly from COVID-19 pneumonia but then developed symptoms suggestive of transverse myelitis three days after he was discharged.
Do other vaccines cause transverse myelitis?

There are reports of instances when getting a vaccine appeared to lead to transverse myelitis. But Roger Baxter of the Northern California Kaiser Permanente Vaccine Study Center in Oakland, California, and his colleagues used the Vaccine Safety Database to look at the question more systematically. Among 64 million vaccine doses, they found 7 cases of transverse myelitis and no statistically valid association between those cases and prior vaccination. They reported the results of their study in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases in 2016. in the Vaccine Safety Database to look at the question more systematically.

In this meta-analysis, they found 37 cases in 39 years of transversive myelitis where vaccination is associated to the disease: Transverse myelitis and vaccines: a multi-analysis - PubMed

A systematic review of PubMed, EMBASE and DynaMed for all English-language journals published between 1970 and 2009 was preformed, utilizing the key words transverse myelitis, myelitis, vaccines, post-vaccination, vaccination and autoimmunity. We have disclosed 37 reported cases of transverse myelitis associated with different vaccines including those against hepatitis B virus, measles-mumps-rubella, diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis and others, given to infants, children and adults. In most of these reported cases the temporal association was between several days and 3 months, although a longer time frame of up to several years was also suggested.

Transversive myeletis is so rare as a side-effect that refusing a vaccine for it would be the equivalent of refusing a flu vaccine because someone had a reaction due to an undiagnosed egg allergy.

I do agree more research should be done on the subject but academic research funding mostly goes to hot subject and even within those, only on hot sub-topics. This is the main problem with today's science, everyone work on the same disease and the same proteins. Guys like SGC are trying to reverse that trend, but they are just one organisation.

 

[FerrisRox]

It continues to amaze me the silly things I hear coming out of the United States. On the topic of vaccines, I have heard many claim that they are not going to even consider a virus until much further down the road and the first reason they cite is that they don't know the "long term effects" that the vaccine might have.

However, this exact some group of people have repeatedly played down COVID-19 and it's effects as being "flu like" and cite anecdotal stories about their friend Dave who had it, was bed-ridden for a few days and now he's fine. How come they have no concerns at all about the long term effects of COVID-19?

 

[SFKingshomer]

I'm not sure why anyone would. I'll take my chances...

 

[TaLoN]

Guys, you start arguing politics, your post will be deleted and warnings may come with it. This is not a political forum. This thread is about vaccination, not about the left and right political agendas.

 

[Montag DP]

It continues to amaze me the silly things I hear coming out of the United States. On the topic of vaccines, I have heard many claim that they are not going to even consider a virus until much further down the road and the first reason they cite is that they don't know the "long term effects" that the vaccine might have.

However, this exact some group of people have repeatedly played down COVID-19 and it's effects as being "flu like" and cite anecdotal stories about their friend Dave who had it, was bed-ridden for a few days and now he's fine. How come they have no concerns at all about the long term effects of COVID-19?

No one knows why unspecified/generalized people said or did the things you claimed they did. After all, we are all specific/individual people. However, it is possible for someone to be concerned about both the long-term effects of Covid-19 and the long-term effects of a vaccine that goes through the testing process in record [by a long shot] time.

 

[Rob Brown]

I'm not sure why anyone would. I'll take my chances...

Hard to really feel comfortable doing it when you have the head of the CDC saying it won't be available to the public for a year and then the administration contradicts him and says he isn't close to the process. Clearly it's entirely disorganized.

 

[jjp66]

Hard to really feel comfortable doing it when you have the head of the CDC saying it won't be available to the public for a year and then the administration contradicts him and says he isn't close to the process. Clearly it's entirely disorganized.

I think a lot of the confusion stems from the difference between when the vaccine is first rolled out to the mass public vs when the majority of the public will be vaccinated. Reports and interviews don't seem to be clarifying one from the other. Technically, both guys are probably right. A vaccine likely will be rolled out to the mass public within the next few months, but it will probably take half a year before the majority of the public is actually vaccinated due to simple logistics.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think a lot of the confusion stems from the difference between when the vaccine is first rolled out to the mass public vs when the majority of the public will be vaccinated. Reports and interviews don't seem to be clarifying one from the other. Technically, both guys are probably right. A vaccine likely will be rolled out to the mass public within the next few months, but it will probably take half a year before the majority of the public is actually vaccinated due to simple logistics.

Yeah, big difference to when first date vaccine is released and the date of when enough of the population is vaccinated to start to return to a level of normalcy again. It's also why places were told to prep earlier rather than later, so that when the vaccine is first released, it will be as efficient as possible.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

No one knows why unspecified/generalized people said or did the things you claimed they did. After all, we are all specific/individual people. However, it is possible for someone to be concerned about both the long-term effects of Covid-19 and the long-term effects of a vaccine that goes through the testing process in record [by a long shot] time.

I truly love how he just believes these thoughts are coming solely out of the United States and the same thoughts aren't being had by people in Canada or elsewhere in the world.

Once again, its a poster that has his blinders on when it comes to his own country but attributes all the negativity to the US.

 

[JacketsFanWest]

Before you accuse me of lying by omission, they also mention vaccines:

The problem is the way scientists can label autoimmune diseases as being "unmasked" by vaccines but not caused by the vaccine. This means doctors don't see the true stats. Those who are deemed already at risk for autoimmune diseases can have adverse side effects ignored.

NIH Worried About Side Effect in Coronavirus Vaccine Trial

The precise cause of the disease is key to the decision by authorities whether to resume the trial. Sometimes an underlying medical condition is "unmasked" by a person's immune response to the vaccine, leading to illness, as happened with the MS patient. In that case, the trial might be continued without fear, because the illness was not specific to the vaccine.

In the case of the first person with transverse myelitis like symptoms, AstraZeneca can say that this was merely "unmasked" multiple sclerosis and thus the vaccine is not to blame - the person is blamed for having a disease they didn't know they had.

This is the situation my high school friend has with MS. The only time she has symptoms of MS is when she gets a flu vaccine, but her neurologist says this is proof she has MS because if she didn't, the wouldn't have symptoms after the flu vaccine.

It's a chicken or the egg situation. If she had never had the flu vaccine, would she ever have had MS symptoms?

And how many people will have diseases like MS "unmasked" by the Oxford vaccine?

 

[Treb]

The problem is the way scientists can label autoimmune diseases as being "unmasked" by vaccines but not caused by the vaccine. This means doctors don't see the true stats. Those who are deemed already at risk for autoimmune diseases can have adverse side effects ignored.



In the case of the first person with transverse myelitis like symptoms, AstraZeneca can say that this was merely "unmasked" multiple sclerosis and thus the vaccine is not to blame - the person is blamed for having a disease they didn't know they had.

This is the situation my high school friend has with MS. The only time she has symptoms of MS is when she gets a flu vaccine, but her neurologist says this is proof she has MS because if she didn't, the wouldn't have symptoms after the flu vaccine.

It's a chicken or the egg situation. If she had never had the flu vaccine, would she ever have had MS symptoms?

And how many people will have diseases like MS "unmasked" by the Oxford vaccine?

Her body is the chicken and the vaccine is the egg.

 

[Batrous]

I sort of have mixed feelings on this topic. If the vaccine is safe and proven to be reasonably effective at protecting against COVID then I'll get it if I can. I fall into a pair of categories that make me a bit more vulnerable to diseases in general (diabetic and overweight) so I have been doing my best to try and stay vaccinated as best I can.

If however the vaccine is still not yet proven to be effective or there is uncertainty as to its safety then I will probably wait a while longer.

 

[FerrisRox]

It's a chicken or the egg situation. If she had never had the flu vaccine, would she ever have had MS symptoms?

You either don't understand the chicken and the egg causality dilemma or you don't understand the scenario you just explained.

You're friends body is the chicken. The vaccine is the egg. There is no mystery here.

 

[JacketsFanWest]

You're friends body is the chicken. The vaccine is the egg. There is no mystery here.

The problem is people like her board certified neurologist don't blame the vaccine for causing the MS. They say that vaccines cause people with MS to have symptoms which reveals the MS they already have but never showed symptoms before.

But there's no proof. Drug companies can claim someone has MS and any adverse side effects are dismissed. Thus anyone developing MS type symptoms can be ignored and not disclosed as an adverse side effect.

There no known cause for why people develop MS but the first person with the transverse myelitis who is not unable to walk can be ignored because their MS can be written off as unrelated even though they were entirely healthy before the vaccine.

And the UK is going ahead with challenge studies so they don't care:
UK to host 'human challenge' trials for COVID-19 vaccines: FT

 

[FerrisRox]

The problem is people like her board certified neurologist don't blame the vaccine for causing the MS.

Because the vaccine didn't cause the MS.

Are you actually suggesting that the vaccine *gave* your friend MS?

 

[Treb]

The problem is people like her board certified neurologist don't blame the vaccine for causing the MS. They say that vaccines cause people with MS to have symptoms which reveals the MS they already have but never showed symptoms before.

But there's no proof. Drug companies can claim someone has MS and any adverse side effects are dismissed. Thus anyone developing MS type symptoms can be ignored and not disclosed as an adverse side effect.

There no known cause for why people develop MS but the first person with the transverse myelitis who is not unable to walk can be ignored because their MS can be written off as unrelated even though they were entirely healthy before the vaccine.

And the UK is going ahead with challenge studies so they don't care:
UK to host 'human challenge' trials for COVID-19 vaccines: FT

Not a fan of this.

 

[DonkeyHotay]

No but not because I don't think they work. My reasons are political and I can't get into them in detail. But I won't get one ever.

 

[Sojourn]

No but not because I don't think they work. My reasons are political and I can't get into them in detail. But I won't get one ever.

Your reasons for not getting a scientifically proven measure are political?

It's one thing to not want to get a vaccine for COVID-19 until there is more evidence, but for any vaccine? I'm sorry to say, but that isn't simply politics. It's ignorance.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Trump’s vaccine czar says the first vaccine should be submitted for emergency authorization around Thanksgiving

This sounds really promising. If the effectiveness of the vaccine is truly between 80%-90%, then we're in really good shape. I'd assume these potential vaccines will be more effective due to the fact that they're targeting a specific strain, and given the fact coronaviruses don't mutate nearly as much as influenza viruses- we're not chasing the virus, so to say.

@Treb
Is this a reasonable take? Can we reasonably assume that the vaccine should be more effective than the influenza vaccine due the reasons I mentioned?

Also, good to see the FDA doubling down on their standards, and not allowing the White House to bully them into jumping through loopholes to deliver a vaccine.

 

[Treb]

Trump’s vaccine czar says the first vaccine should be submitted for emergency authorization around Thanksgiving

This sounds really promising. If the effectiveness of the vaccine is truly between 80%-90%, then we're in really good shape. I'd assume these potential vaccines will be more effective due to the fact that they're targeting a specific strain, and given the fact coronaviruses don't mutate nearly as much as influenza viruses- we're not chasing the virus, so to say.

@Treb
Is this a reasonable take? Can we reasonably assume that the vaccine should be more effective than the influenza vaccine due the reasons I mentioned?

Also, good to see the FDA doubling down on their standards, and not allowing the White House to bully them into jumping through loopholes to deliver a vaccine.

I can't really say anything about the effectiveness of the vaccine since the phase 3 data is not public yet. We do know the vaccines generate antibodies and T-cell response, but we don't know if they are protective enough yet.

We also don't know how long the vaccine acquired immunity will last.

Since it mutates a lot less than Influenza because it only drift and not shift, the vaccine should require less (if any) yearly adaptation. However, we don't know if the current vaccine immunity breadth cover all existing strains. It's relatively simple to test, but very tedious as you have to generate a lot of mutated proteins to check for binding.

 

[ORRFForever]

I'm first in line for the flu and C19 vaccine.

 

[TaLoN]

I'm first in line for the flu and C19 vaccine.

Why haven't you gotten your flu shot yet? We're already in the very early stages of flu season.

 

[Maple Leaf]

This vaccine is going to be garbage

 

[Treb]

This vaccine is going to be garbage

Why?

 

[Perennial]

I will not be getting vaccinated...