Speculation: Will Treliving Show Bennett the Money?

[BVicious]

All I can say is, he better be signed before training camp. Can't afford to have him, of all players, miss training camp.

2 or 3 years, 2.75 per.

 

[DFF]

All I can say is, he better be signed before training camp. Can't afford to have him, of all players, miss training camp.

2 or 3 years, 2.75 per.

Yes, if Bennett misses training camp, it's all downhill from here on for him.

Bennett has a lot to learn on how to play the game, now is not the time to sit

 

[InfinityIggy]

Yes, if Bennett misses training camp, it's all downhill from here on for him.

Bennett has a lot to learn on how to play the game, now is not the time to sit

Agree, I said it before but Bennett can not afford to miss any of camp.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

In an ideal world, for Bennett what kind of contract is he out for, a 1 year?

 

[FlamerForLife]

In an ideal world, for Bennett what kind of contract is he out for, a 1 year?

1 year would be risky for him, especially if he was to get injured or have another subpar season. Imo he's probably looking at a 2-3 year deal.

 

[Butanic]

3 years 2 mil per. Then he can get some of those sweet Brouwer Bucks afterwards.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

1 year would be risky for him, especially if he was to get injured or have another subpar season. Imo he's probably looking at a 2-3 year deal.

Sure, but if he goes out and scores 55 pts next season then he could easily ask for 4.5+ and I think he would get it. I also think the organization would be more comfortable giving it to him.

I think a 2 year deal is mostly likely. I was just trying to think what is Sam ideally looking for.

 

[FlamerForLife]

Sure, but if he goes out and scores 55 pts next season then he could easily ask for 4.5+ and I think he would get it. I also think the organization would be more comfortable giving it to him.

I think a 2 year deal is mostly likely. I was just trying to think what is Sam ideally looking for.

Yeah that's true but at the same time if he puts up ~30 points again, then he'll be in the same position next off-season.

I agree with you, it'll most likely be 2 years, personally I'm hoping for 3 though.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Yeah that's true but at the same time if he puts up ~30 points again, then he'll be in the same position next off-season.

I agree with you, it'll most likely be 2 years, personally I'm hoping for 3 though.

I hope because of the Wennberg deal, Trev somehow signs Bennett to a 7 year deal at 3.5mill cap hit, that's one of those deals that even if Bennett turns out to be a 10 point one dimensional offensive player won't be a big burden on us lol.

 

[FlamerForLife]

Some comparables ppg wise for Bennett

 

[djpatm]

The highlight package clearly shows the potential is there. We shouldn't sign him as if he plays like that every game. But if he can get the confidence to start playing towards his potential, he may be one of our top 3 most important players going forward.

Please, you could make a highlight reel of missed opportunities for any top 9 player.

The history of the NHL is littered with failed l players who just couldn't finish.

2x2.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Please, you could make a highlight reel of missed opportunities for any top 9 player.

The history of the NHL is littered with failed l players who just couldn't finish.

Not sure what you're trying to get at, but implying Sam Bennett is someone that can't finish is an odd one. Sam Bennett is a career 12.0% shooter.

Since 2013 only four Under-21 NHL players have strung together 150 multi-season averages with 12% shooting:

David Pastrnak (plays with Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci)
Sean Monahan (plays with Johnny Gaudreau, and for a good chunk with Hudler too)
Sasha Barkov (plays with Jonathan Huberedeau, played a good chunk with Jaromir Jagr
Sam Bennett (His presence on this list is dumbfounding, to be honest. He doesn't even get power play time to boost his percentages)

That's despite shooting around two percent in the year 2017 at 5-on-5 and generally looking snakebitten. It's actually kind of absurd.

 

[DFF]

Not sure what you're trying to get at, but implying Sam Bennett is someone that can't finish is an odd one. Sam Bennett is a career 12.0% shooter.

Since 2013 only four Under-21 NHL players have strung together 150 multi-season averages with 12% shooting:

David Pastrnak (plays with Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci)
Sean Monahan (plays with Johnny Gaudreau, and for a good chunk with Hudler too)
Sasha Barkov (plays with Jonathan Huberedeau, played a good chunk with Jaromir Jagr
Sam Bennett (His presence on this list is dumbfounding, to be honest. He doesn't even get power play time to boost his percentages)

That's despite shooting around two percent in the year 2017 at 5-on-5 and generally looking snakebitten. It's actually kind of absurd.

If I remembered correct, Bennett got some chances with Gaudreau and others but he eventually worked himself to the bottom line. It's not all his fault but dont make it look like he was buried there for no reason.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

If I remembered correct, Bennett got some chances with Gaudreau and others but he eventually worked himself to the bottom line.

First of all nothing in your post has any real relation to the post you are quoting, so it's strange.

Second, please. This is just "Something happened, so let's manufacture a bias-confirming narrative for it".

Gaudreau and Bennett (..and for the most part Chiasson) played 201.83 together, had a 50.00% on-ice Goals For %, a 56.30% DangerousFenwick% together.

Gaudreau and Monahan played 740.78 together, had a 51.60% on-ice GF%, a 51.10% DangerousFenwick% together. Ferland, Chiasson, Versteeg, and Brouwer were the RWs throughout the season.

Gaudreau and Chiasson played 403.48 together, had a 48.30% on-ice GF% , and a 54.30% on-ice Dangerous Fenwick% together. This time was split pretty evenly between Bennett and Monahan at center.

Gaudreau and Ferland (..and for the most part Monahan) played 282.42 together, had a 63.00% on-ice GF% had a 51.20% Dangerous Fenwick% together.

Gaudreau and Brouwer (..and for the most part Monahan) played 161.30 together, had a 45.50% on-ice GF% had a 49.50% Dangerous Fenwick% together.

Gaudreau and Versteeg (..and for the most part Monahan) played 87.55 together, had a 40.00% on-ice GF% had a 51.50% Dangerous Fenwick% together.

So other than the time Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland were a thing, the only other lines Gaudreau was actually hit 50% GF% with was Gaudreau-Bennett-Chiasson. And it was kept together the least longest despite having the highest dangerous Fenwick% and second-highest Goals%

Maybe, just maybe, Gulutzan was throwing **** against the wall until he united Ferland and Gaudreau, and that wasn't when Gaudreau and Bennett were together.

But no, Bennett "played himself off" that line. That's the narrative you wanna push. Even though Gaudreau-Bennett-Chiasson outperformed Gaudreau-Monahan-Chiasson.

[qutote]It's not all his fault but dont make it look like he was buried there for no reason.[/QUOTE]

Since when was Bennett buried? He played center, and he didn't have two years of primo opportunity behind him like Monahan to be handed the spot with Gaudreau. It's not really complicated.

By the way, even when he was getting chances with Gaudreau, that line was being used most often with Jokipakka-Engelland as the third line. Gaudreau's line's struggles at that time had more to do with the defensemen who were feeding him on the breakout than anything, as Gulutzan insisted on Bennett + Engelland all year, regardless of his wingers. And no, Engelland wasn't very good.

 

[herashak]

Not sure what you're trying to get at, but implying Sam Bennett is someone that can't finish is an odd one. Sam Bennett is a career 12.0% shooter.

Since 2013 only four Under-21 NHL players have strung together 150 multi-season averages with 12% shooting:

David Pastrnak (plays with Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci)
Sean Monahan (plays with Johnny Gaudreau, and for a good chunk with Hudler too)
Sasha Barkov (plays with Jonathan Huberedeau, played a good chunk with Jaromir Jagr
Sam Bennett (His presence on this list is dumbfounding, to be honest. He doesn't even get power play time to boost his percentages)

That's despite shooting around two percent in the year 2017 at 5-on-5 and generally looking snakebitten. It's actually kind of absurd.

He's scored like 20 goals dude

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

He's scored like 20 goals dude

31 actually. With minimal power play time and almost zero first unit time. His shooting percentage is 12%. There are reasons why he's not getting the shots to shoot more - ice time, his own volume shooting rate (which minute for minute is almost identical to Gaudreau, by the way), his linemates, but saying he lacks finish is absurd.

 

[herashak]

31 actually. With minimal power play time and almost zero first unit time. His shooting percentage is 12%. There are reasons why he's not getting the shots to shoot more - ice time, his own volume shooting rate (which minute for minute is almost identical to Gaudreau, by the way), his linemates, but saying he lacks finish is absurd.

He also needs to work on his shot. He loads up to shoot and loses track of where the sticks are sometimes, even when he's in the crowded slot. Til he stops missing so much on the ones he gets through he's gonna get his shot blocked too often.

 

[Mr Snrub]

He also needs to work on his shot. He loads up to shoot and loses track of where the sticks are sometimes, even when he's in the crowded slot. Til he stops missing so much on the ones he gets through he's gonna get his shot blocked too often.

So did you just ignore the wealth of evidence OKG just gave as to the quality of Bennett's shot or

 

[herashak]

So did you just ignore the wealth of evidence OKG just gave as to the quality of Bennett's shot or

I know you guys love your numbers and maybe you watch a few games as well (OKG must be). But players who haven't proven a lot don't get as long of a leash with top 2/3 talents when they keep having throw away games. I know Bennett can be on and can string some games together. But when you are taking penalties and going tunnel vision players like Monahan and backlund take the reigns and get the talent. Monahan has produced with mediocre players, backlund has kept some **** players above water. Bennett has been drafted fourth overall.

 

[Mr Snrub]

I know you guys love your numbers and maybe you watch a few games as well (OKG must be). But players who haven't proven a lot don't get as long of a leash with top 2/3 talents when they keep having throw away games. I know Bennett can be on and can string some games together. But when you are taking penalties and going tunnel vision players like Monahan and backlund take the reigns and get the talent. Monahan has produced with mediocre players, backlund has kept some **** players above water. Bennett has been drafted fourth overall.

There's a difference between only paying attention to the numbers and the numbers painting a pretty clear image. I'm probably one of the people on this board least sold on advanced stats in general. My problem is that OKG makes a compelling argument as to Bennett having an excellent shot and your reply kind of indicates you either didn't read or didn't understand his post.

 

[herashak]

There's a difference between only paying attention to the numbers and the numbers painting a pretty clear image. I'm probably one of the people on this board least sold on advanced stats in general. My problem is that OKG makes a compelling argument as to Bennett having an excellent shot and your reply kind of indicates you either didn't read or didn't understand his post.

"150 multi season averages" ???

So after 150 games, I would have liked to have seen goals actually scored beside the shooting percentage. Because over the last 3/4 years those guys have earned big time contracts and Bennett hasn't.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

He also needs to work on his shot. He loads up to shoot and loses track of where the sticks are sometimes, even when he's in the crowded slot. Til he stops missing so much on the ones he gets through he's gonna get his shot blocked too often.

You're just taking anecdotes and applying them universally. It's so easy to make up a narrative in your mind based on a few instances.

56.3% of Bennett's shot attempts registered as "shots" at 5-on-5 over his short career. 5.8% became goals. 7.4% became rebounds.

56.1% of Backlund's shot attempts registered as "shots" at 5-on-5 over the last three seasons. 5.3% became goals. 6.5% became rebounds.

Bennett might not be perfect, but his shot attempts are no less likely to go in than Backlund, who is pretty clearly a top 6 forward.

He doesn't lack finish. Does he lack an ability to generate shots? Maybe, but it usually takes more than one guy doing all the work to generate shots, unless your name is Evgeni Malkin or Mario Lemieux (or... for some reason, Nazem Kadri IDK). Bennett's ability to convert shot attempts into goals is rock solid. The next step for him is generating more shot attempts, but to do so he needs more:

1) Power Play Ice time. This is where a large proportion of shot attempts get generated
2) Linemates who not only generate shot-assists but rebounds and shots of their own. This is a criticism I had of Troy Brouwer and Alex Chiasson before last season even began. Chiasson actually exceeded expectations with Bennett, but actually does lack finish.

I know you guys love your numbers and maybe you watch a few games as well (OKG must be).

This phrasing is beyond loaded. "maybe you watch a few games as well". Why would any sane person be on HFFlames if they didn't watch Calgary Flames games?

But players who haven't proven a lot don't get as long of a leash with top 2/3 talents when they keep having throw away games.

Monahan did. But people like to forget his throwaway games because his first year playing center the team was supposed to be bad, and his second year playing center our only real centers Backlund and Stajan were injured from the get go, allowing Monahan to play huge minutes with no meritocracy applied.

I know Bennett can be on and can string some games together.But when you are taking penalties and going tunnel vision

Bennett isn't getting tunnel vision - you're just making stuff up.

And his penalty rate in the second half of last season *when he actually struggled offensively was remarkably average or better. His penalties were high when he was getting hit with phantom calls, which weren't actual penalties. He once got called for a stick infraction for winning a faceoff cleanly. A coach is able to watch tape and not blame a player for that.

players like Monahan and backlund take the reigns and get the talent. Monahan has produced with mediocre players

Assuming you're talking about during his ELC, and not last year (his age 22 season):

You mean Monahan was hot for the first eight games of his career and capitalized on it even though he barely did anything the rest of the year. The only year Monahan "produced" with mediocre players, his 1.19 P/60 @ 5v5 in the final 67 games of the 2013-14 season was worse than Bennett's 1.22 last year. Why did Monahan have more points that year than Bennett last year? An 8 game hot stretch and more power play opportunity.

Or maybe you mean 2014-15 (Monahan's age 20 season) when Monahan, before getting stuck between Gaudreau and Hudler, was producing at 1.21 P/60 @ 5v5. I'm sure the fact that he was getting huge ice time and power play ice time had nothing to do with the fact that he produced better than Bennett.

Let's not pretend Monahan was a model of consistency before he got Gaudreau. Hell let's not pretend he was a model of consistency last year with Gaudreau. Monahan is a highly inconsistent center who plays with an Art Ross caliber talent and has a "reputation" as a producer.

Which is fine, but saying that he "took the reigns" to get the talent is BS. Backlund took the reigns to get the talent. Monahan got to the NHL two years before Bennett, nothing more. If Monahan got hurt for 40+ games (like Backlund did in 2014-15). Even though he is two years older he doesn't really drive the bus anymore than Bennett. At best he's a slightly better (but less dynamic) goal scorer than Bennett. But that's just one aspect of the game.

Monahan has produced with mediocre players?
No more than Bennett has.

Monahan is more ""proven"" in a role suited to producing offensively?
Absolutely.

Monahan has consistently been given more opportunity in a role suited to producing offensively?
Just as absolutely.

Bennett has been drafted fourth overall.

This statement, while factual, supports no argument. . The Flames wear red jerseys. Gaudreau is not 6 feet tall. Brouwer was signed as a UFA when common sense said steer clear.

He was drafted fourth overall as a center and is being developed as a center now that Tkachuk has given us the wing depth needed to do so.

He was drafted fourth overall by a team that made the playoffs without him in his draft+1 season.

He was drafted fourth overall by a team with two centers who have put up 52+ points last season.

He was drafted fourth overall by a team with five other left-shot forwards on its PP last season plus a 4.5 million dollar player signed specifically for the PP.

He was drafted fourth overall, not unlike Ryan Johansen who ultimately priced himself out of the team that drafted him after he exploded in his Draft+4/+5 seasons were completely unlike his draft+1/2/3 seasons.

So yeah, he was drafted fourth overall. Does that sugest he was put in the exact same positions to succeed as every player drafted 3rd to 5th overall?

 

[herashak]

You're just taking anecdotes and applying them universally. It's so easy to make up a narrative in your mind based on a few instances.

56.3% of Bennett's shot attempts registered as "shots" at 5-on-5 over his short career. 5.8% became goals. 7.4% became rebounds.

56.1% of Backlund's shot attempts registered as "shots" at 5-on-5 over the last three seasons. 5.3% became goals. 6.5% became rebounds.

Bennett might not be perfect, but his shot attempts are no less likely to go in than Backlund, who is pretty clearly a top 6 forward.

He doesn't lack finish. Does he lack an ability to generate shots? Maybe, but it usually takes more than one guy doing all the work to generate shots, unless your name is Evgeni Malkin or Mario Lemieux (or... for some reason, Nazem Kadri IDK). Bennett's ability to convert shot attempts into goals is rock solid. The next step for him is generating more shot attempts, but to do so he needs more:

1) Power Play Ice time. This is where a large proportion of shot attempts get generated
2) Linemates who not only generate shot-assists but rebounds and shots of their own. This is a criticism I had of Troy Brouwer and Alex Chiasson before last season even began. Chiasson actually exceeded expectations with Bennett, but actually does lack finish.



This phrasing is beyond loaded. "maybe you watch a few games as well". Why would any sane person be on HFFlames if they didn't watch Calgary Flames games?



Monahan did. But people like to forget his throwaway games because his first year playing center the team was supposed to be bad, and his second year playing center our only real centers Backlund and Stajan were injured from the get go, allowing Monahan to play huge minutes with no meritocracy applied.



Bennett isn't getting tunnel vision - you're just making stuff up.

And his penalty rate in the second half of last season *when he actually struggled offensively was remarkably average or better. His penalties were high when he was getting hit with phantom calls, which weren't actual penalties. He once got called for a stick infraction for winning a faceoff cleanly. A coach is able to watch tape and not blame a player for that.



Assuming you're talking about during his ELC, and not last year (his age 22 season):

You mean Monahan was hot for the first eight games of his career and capitalized on it even though he barely did anything the rest of the year. The only year Monahan "produced" with mediocre players, his 1.19 P/60 @ 5v5 in the final 67 games of the 2013-14 season was worse than Bennett's 1.22 last year. Why did Monahan have more points that year than Bennett last year? An 8 game hot stretch and more power play opportunity.

Or maybe you mean 2014-15 (Monahan's age 20 season) when Monahan, before getting stuck between Gaudreau and Hudler, was producing at 1.21 P/60 @ 5v5. I'm sure the fact that he was getting huge ice time and power play ice time had nothing to do with the fact that he produced better than Bennett.

Let's not pretend Monahan was a model of consistency before he got Gaudreau. Hell let's not pretend he was a model of consistency last year with Gaudreau. Monahan is a highly inconsistent center who plays with an Art Ross caliber talent and has a "reputation" as a producer.

Which is fine, but saying that he "took the reigns" to get the talent is BS. Backlund took the reigns to get the talent. Monahan got to the NHL two years before Bennett, nothing more. If Monahan got hurt for 40+ games (like Backlund did in 2014-15). Even though he is two years older he doesn't really drive the bus anymore than Bennett. At best he's a slightly better (but less dynamic) goal scorer than Bennett. But that's just one aspect of the game.

Monahan has produced with mediocre players?
No more than Bennett has.

Monahan is more ""proven"" in a role suited to producing offensively?
Absolutely.

Monahan has consistently been given more opportunity in a role suited to producing offensively?
Just as absolutely.



This statement, while factual, supports no argument. . The Flames wear red jerseys. Gaudreau is not 6 feet tall. Brouwer was signed as a UFA when common sense said steer clear.

He was drafted fourth overall as a center and is being developed as a center now that Tkachuk has given us the wing depth needed to do so.

He was drafted fourth overall by a team that made the playoffs without him in his draft+1 season.

He was drafted fourth overall by a team with two centers who have put up 52+ points last season.

He was drafted fourth overall by a team with five other left-shot forwards on its PP last season plus a 4.5 million dollar player signed specifically for the PP.

He was drafted fourth overall, not unlike Ryan Johansen who ultimately priced himself out of the team that drafted him after he exploded in his Draft+4/+5 seasons were completely unlike his draft+1/2/3 seasons.

So yeah, he was drafted fourth overall. Does that sugest he was put in the exact same positions to succeed as every player drafted 3rd to 5th overall?

Okay before I get into this I am in the camp that wants to see a 1-3 year deal under 3M per.

Secondly can you explain what exactly constitutes a shot attempt. Because I've seen a lot of instances where Bennet isn't even able to get an attempt off where he's holding on longer than a player like Monahan or even Backlund would. It's an observation I've had, I watched around 40 games. It wouldn't surprise me if Bennett's shot is better in a lot of ways then Backlund's. It's also lacking, just like a lot of things in Bennett's game when compared to Backlund.

That's why I would rather bridge him and not be overly worried about how long it takes for his game to grow.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Well, at least this isn't a "trade Bennett" thread yet.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Okay before I get into this I am in the camp that wants to see a 1-3 year deal under 3M per.

Secondly can you explain what exactly constitutes a shot attempt. Because I've seen a lot of instances where Bennet isn't even able to get an attempt off where he's holding on longer than a player like Monahan or even Backlund would. It's an observation I've had, I watched around 40 games. It wouldn't surprise me if Bennett's shot is better in a lot of ways then Backlund's. It's also lacking, just like a lot of things in Bennett's game when compared to Backlund.

That's why I would rather bridge him and not be overly worried about how long it takes for his game to grow.

For the record I'm with you on the bridge deal business. I just think it's bizarre to say Bennett's shots are low quality and get blocked too often based on anecdotal evidence when OKG provided a pretty clear case for Bennett having a great shot in the exact post you quoted.

But you're right in that he's not worth rolling the dice on a long term deal for yet. Plenty of more promising players have fallen off.