Will the Olympics be used as a bargaining chip by the NHL?

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missK

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Here's my 2 cents - Olympic Men's Hockey games are scheduled 2/15-2/26 (11 days). With travel both ways it's effectively a 15 day timeframe for the trip to Torino if your team goes all the way to the Bronze or Gold Medal games. You shut the league down for a max 17 days total and you cancel the All Star Weekend. NHL last games before the break are 2/11, games start again on 3/1.
 

blitzkriegs

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The Messenger said:
Jacques Rogge the President of the IOC and the Olympic committee members, as well as the IIHF was in attendance in Vancouver about a month ago looking at the progress and sites for the events of the 2010 Winter games .. At that time it was reported in the media that the success of the games would be in large part do to the NHL participation in the Hockey event as that would be one of the spot light events.

However the warning was issued that the Olympic Winter Games in Turin should not be neglected by the NHL, and that what actually happens there will effect the 2010 games in regards to Hockey players involved.

Roggue made that comment directly to put pressure on the NHL who apparently have told him that its unlikely at this stage due to the labour dispute, to expect NHLers and that currently the NHL does not intend to be planning an Olympic break in the 2005-06 season should there be one.

The IIHF was there in attendance as that would then fall into their laps of recruitment of players for both the games of 2006 and 2010.

With the 2006 games quickly approaching the IIHF has made statements that players that sign up now for the Euro leagues will be given the first right to participation in the Olympics but the catch being that if the NHLer commits to Europe then it has to be for the full season without an out clause should the NHL start up again at any time next year.. Clearly an indication that they are presently involved in the issue and that they want some sort of commitment from players who want to be considered for the winter games as the planning is underway .. They also have mentioned a mid July commitment is necessary, and that the player needs to be playing at a high level throughout the year to be involved in the Olympics as per the IIHF selection process.

People can decide for themselves what a 1 year guaranteed contract in Europe means to both sides.

Thus I would imagine as the Bettman we need a deal by mid June was also influenced by the fact somewhat. The North American born players it would effect differently then the Euro's as well I would imagine .. Kovalchuk would have no problem committing to a year in REL and an Olympic games participation as he made $3 mil to play at home last season .. Would Joe Thornton and Rick Nash commit as quickly again to the Swiss leagues, who knows ..

So the IIHF is very much in the middle of this dispute ..

You seem to harping on the No Turin = No Vancouver. I'm sure what is said in 2005 will have an effect on the 2010 games. :dunno:

Moreover, if the success of the games in Vancouver would be BASED ON NHL PARTICIPATION, then it would seem that the NHL would be more than welcome to participate in the games most popular place. And since the Olympics regulary whores itself out for $, the NHL in the Vancouver games would bring tons of $ to the table.
 

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blitzkriegs said:
You seem to harping on the No Turin = No Vancouver. I'm sure what is said in 2005 will have an effect on the 2010 games. :dunno:

Moreover, if the success of the games in Vancouver would be BASED ON NHL PARTICIPATION, then it would seem that the NHL would be more than welcome to participate in the games most popular place. And since the Olympics regulary whores itself out for $, the NHL in the Vancouver games would bring tons of $ to the table.
You missed the whole point .. The IOC is concerned about the games in 2006 just a few months away and wants a commitment from the NHL .. To this point they are saying NO to 2006 because of the lockout .. Then the IOC is saying if you are not interested in Italy this comming year then count yourself out of the 2010 games as I am give authority over to the IIHF to find players for both games ..

Bottom line : The NHL can't pick and chose when to participate .. All or nothing as far as the Olympic committee is concerned .
 

Lanny MacDonald*

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The Messenger said:
You missed the whole point .. The IOC is concerned about the games in 2006 just a few months away and wants a commitment from the NHL .. To this point they are saying NO to 2006 because of the lockout .. Then the IOC is saying if you are not interested in Italy this comming year then count yourself out of the 2010 games as I am give authority over to the IIHF to find players for both games ..

Bottom line : The NHL can't pick and chose when to participate .. All or nothing as far as the Olympic committee is concerned .

I think YOU have missed the whole point. If push comes to shove the NHL will be in Vancouver, whether they participate in Italy or not. The NHL players will not be a big thing in Italy, but would be a massive shortcoming in Vancouver. Hockey won't be the main sport in Italy, but will be in Canada. The IOC will do everything in their power to get the NHL players in Vancouver, even if they don't have them in Italy. They would be setting up the Vancouver olympics for a big let down without them. If push comes to shove I'm sure that the host city will have a lot to say in who participates. They put up all the money, they are lining the IOC's pockets, and they will have some serious input. You're kidding yourself if you think that the NHL will not be in Vancouver. Its for the IOC's benefit more than the NHL.
 

WC Handy*

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Not only that, Icon, but I'd like to know when the IOC said anything like what he's saying. Like I said earlier, last I heard the IOC wasn't putting any sort of a deadline on the NHL's decision because they want the NHL there even if it's not decided until a couple months beforehand. They have no reason to set a deadline.
 

mooseOAK*

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I think that the only IOC deadline is when rosters need to be decided by which is a short time before the games begin.

Being an NHL fan first I don't like the idea of the players having to travel there, adjust to the time difference, play a competitive tournament for a couple of weeks, then return to North America and have to re-adjust again.

Let the second tier players play this one and the NHL come back in 2010.
 

WC Handy*

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mooseOAK said:
I think that the only IOC deadline is when rosters need to be decided by which is a short time before the games begin.

Being an NHL fan first I don't like the idea of the players having to travel there, adjust to the time difference, play a competitive tournament for a couple of weeks, then return to North America and have to re-adjust again.

Let the second tier players play this one and the NHL come back in 2010.

Sorry, but that's a horrible idea. The NHL needs to decide one way or another and stick with it.
 

mooseOAK*

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WC Handy said:
Sorry, but that's a horrible idea. The NHL needs to decide one way or another and stick with it.
I think that they need to do what is in their own best interest which is my scenario.
 

WC Handy*

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mooseOAK said:
I think that they need to do what is in their own best interest which is my scenario.

Your scenario pisses off fans, sponsors, members of the media, and anyone else who wants to see the NHL make a final decision on this subject. And it make the NHL look like the joke that many people already claim it is.
 

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The Iconoclast said:
I think YOU have missed the whole point. If push comes to shove the NHL will be in Vancouver, whether they participate in Italy or not. The NHL players will not be a big thing in Italy, but would be a massive shortcoming in Vancouver. Hockey won't be the main sport in Italy, but will be in Canada. The IOC will do everything in their power to get the NHL players in Vancouver, even if they don't have them in Italy. They would be setting up the Vancouver olympics for a big let down without them. If push comes to shove I'm sure that the host city will have a lot to say in who participates. They put up all the money, they are lining the IOC's pockets, and they will have some serious input. You're kidding yourself if you think that the NHL will not be in Vancouver. Its for the IOC's benefit more than the NHL.
I'm kidding myself .. !!!!

This is what the president of the IOC stated .. You got a problem with it take up with him ..

You some how have twisted this into thinking the Host city will not be effected if it happens in Italy that NHLers do not go .. This is world event and broadcast worldwide .. So fans would want to see NHLers in both events if possible but the lockout complicates things a lot.

The host city bids on the right to host the Olympics they have no say in which athletes will attend .. Olympic athletes have to qualify for most sports to make their teams is some big name stars do no qualify then too bad.. Vancouver does not have a say in changing the rules for profit reasons. I do not see any difference in making demands for hockey.

NHlers in the Olympics is a new thing anyway .. In general the Olympics have for generations been considered amateur athletes events .. The 1980 US Olympic team that won in Lake Placid was made entirely of US College amateurs and the ratings went through the roof when they won Gold.

If the IOC says that NHLers will not attendance even though of course they would like them there put I also see their point .. The NHL can't pick and choose and regardless the NHL does not profit one way or another financially regardless which country they are in other then generating fan interest in the sport ..

So bottom line then .. In the best interest in see the best hockey players in the world in the 2006 Olympics then the lockout needs to continue otherwise NHLers will not be there.

For those who watched the World Championships a team like Russia has all but given Olympic roster spots to Ovechkin and Malkin .. You give that some thought and that means that fans should not expect either in the NHL should it start up in the fall, if NHLers are not going to be there .. That means some Euro Players will delay their NHL arrival after the Olympics are over ..
 
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kdb209

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The Iconoclast said:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
You missed the whole point .. The IOC is concerned about the games in 2006 just a few months away and wants a commitment from the NHL .. To this point they are saying NO to 2006 because of the lockout .. Then the IOC is saying if you are not interested in Italy this comming year then count yourself out of the 2010 games as I am give authority over to the IIHF to find players for both games ..

Bottom line : The NHL can't pick and chose when to participate .. All or nothing as far as the Olympic committee is concerned .
I think YOU have missed the whole point. If push comes to shove the NHL will be in Vancouver, whether they participate in Italy or not. The NHL players will not be a big thing in Italy, but would be a massive shortcoming in Vancouver. Hockey won't be the main sport in Italy, but will be in Canada. The IOC will do everything in their power to get the NHL players in Vancouver, even if they don't have them in Italy. They would be setting up the Vancouver olympics for a big let down without them. If push comes to shove I'm sure that the host city will have a lot to say in who participates. They put up all the money, they are lining the IOC's pockets, and they will have some serious input. You're kidding yourself if you think that the NHL will not be in Vancouver. Its for the IOC's benefit more than the NHL.

There is one other major reason that NHL players will be at the Olympics - NBC.

Never underestimate the influence of the IOC's single largest source of revenue - the US broadcast rights.
 

mooseOAK*

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WC Handy said:
Your scenario pisses off fans, sponsors, members of the media, and anyone else who wants to see the NHL make a final decision on this subject. And it make the NHL look like the joke that many people already claim it is.
With the Olympics in Europe games will need to be broadcast at times where people who have jobs won't be able to watch them live so the fans and the sponsors are already inconvenienced. Okay for me because I work from home but there are millions of viewers who won't be able to.

NBC doesn't really care unless the US is involved.
 

WC Handy*

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mooseOAK said:
With the Olympics in Europe games will need to be broadcast at times where people who have jobs won't be able to watch them live so the fans and the sponsors are already inconvenienced. Okay for me because I work from home but there are millions of viewers who won't be able to.

The games will be played on tape delay and will still be watched by a lot of people IF nhlers are playing. If you've got a teamful of people that nobody has heard of, nobody will be watching. So, while the time change might be an inconvenienced, the sponsors and fans haven't been nearly inconvenienced as they would if NHLers didn't play.

NBC doesn't really care unless the US is involved.

That isn't true at all. USA games will get better ratings, but CZE vs SLO will get much better ratings with NHLers than without. Without NHLers we won't see a single hockey game w/o USA involved.
 

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Doesn't the medal round traditionaly get played on a weekend. If that is the case it's easier to get a live broadcast to the US audiance.
 

mooseOAK*

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WC Handy said:
The games will be played on tape delay and will still be watched by a lot of people IF nhlers are playing. If you've got a teamful of people that nobody has heard of, nobody will be watching. So, while the time change might be an inconvenienced, the sponsors and fans haven't been nearly inconvenienced as they would if NHLers didn't play.
Viewership would be higher with NHL players, for sure. But would it be high enough (i.e. close to Salt Lake numbers) to make it a huge deal that they are there? I don't think so.
That isn't true at all. USA games will get better ratings, but CZE vs SLO will get much better ratings with NHLers than without. Without NHLers we won't see a single hockey game w/o USA involved.
From what I know about the US hockey fan, whether it is a non-US team with or without their best players it will still be low priority. The US in the gold medal game would be HUGE but games between non-US teams will be WAY down there in interest.
 

blitzkriegs

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The Iconoclast said:
I think YOU have missed the whole point. If push comes to shove the NHL will be in Vancouver, whether they participate in Italy or not. The NHL players will not be a big thing in Italy, but would be a massive shortcoming in Vancouver. Hockey won't be the main sport in Italy, but will be in Canada. The IOC will do everything in their power to get the NHL players in Vancouver, even if they don't have them in Italy. They would be setting up the Vancouver olympics for a big let down without them. If push comes to shove I'm sure that the host city will have a lot to say in who participates. They put up all the money, they are lining the IOC's pockets, and they will have some serious input. You're kidding yourself if you think that the NHL will not be in Vancouver. Its for the IOC's benefit more than the NHL.

Thank you. :clap:
 

WC Handy*

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mooseOAK said:
Viewership would be higher with NHL players, for sure. But would it be high enough (i.e. close to Salt Lake numbers) to make it a huge deal that they are there? I don't think so.

From what I know about the US hockey fan, whether it is a non-US team with or without their best players it will still be low priority. The US in the gold medal game would be HUGE but games between non-US teams will be WAY down there in interest.

Ratings will be down considerably in Italy without NHL players. It's as simple as that.
 

Mess

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kdb209 said:
There is one other major reason that NHL players will be at the Olympics - NBC.

Never underestimate the influence of the IOC's single largest source of revenue - the US broadcast rights.
Do you believe that they pay based on which athletes attend??.. Or did they commit funding for broadcast rights based on knowing the host cities in advance ??

The NBC will have to committed its funding long long before they know who will be on the ice for Hockey in 2010 by a successful bid, and they won the rights based on $$$ comitment before the Athens 2004 Summer Games ..

The IOC awards the Olympic broadcast rights in blocks and includes the Summer and Winter games, to avoid the exact pick and chose discussion problem we have in this thread ?


NBC's unprecedented 24-hour, around-the-clock coverage of the 2004 Olympic Games from Athens will total 1,210 hours aired across seven platforms. Over the 17 days of the Athens Games (Aug. 13-29), NBC's coverage will average more than 70 hours per day.

NBC, America's Olympic Network, holds the exclusive U.S. media rights to the Olympic Games through 2012, which include Athens in 2004, Torino, Italy in 2006, Beijing in 2008, Vancouver 2010 and the Summer Games of 2012.
 
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Lanny MacDonald*

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The Messenger said:
Do you believe that they pay based on which athletes attend??.. Or did they commit funding for broadcast rights based on knowing the host cities in advance ??

The NBC will have to committed its funding long long before they know who will be on the ice for Hockey in 2010 by a successful bid, and they won the rights based on $$$ comitment before the Athens 2004 Summer Games ..

The IOC awards the Olympic broadcast rights in blocks and includes the Summer and Winter games, to avoid the exact pick and chose discussion problem we have in this thread ?




You're kidding? So NBC would prefer having another group of Mike Eruzionis to broadcast rather than Mike Modanos? NBC would rather have teams filled with no ones than with stars to promote a short tournament like the olympic hockey tournament? Aren't you one of the clowns that has been preaching to all that will hear that the PLAYERS are the game and THEY are the ones who bring the fans in, NOT the game itself? So if you take that stance does it also not follow that same logic that NBC would rather have recognizable names (the ones they have been broadcasting) on the ice rather than nobodies? You can't have it both ways! Either the athletes are the game, as you have been saying for months, or they are just an interchangeable piece that can be easily replaced and the fans will continue to watch. Which is it? Nice job of painting yourself into the proverbial corner. You're on a roll and its a laugh riot to watch!!!

:biglaugh:
 

kdb209

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The Messenger said:
Originally Posted by kdb209
There is one other major reason that NHL players will be at the Olympics - NBC.

Never underestimate the influence of the IOC's single largest source of revenue - the US broadcast rights.
Do you believe that they pay based on which athletes attend??.. Or did they commit funding for broadcast rights based on knowing the host cities in advance ??

The NBC will have to committed its funding long long before they know who will be on the ice for Hockey in 2010 by a successful bid, and they won the rights based on $$$ comitment before the Athens 2004 Summer Games ..

The IOC awards the Olympic broadcast rights in blocks and includes the Summer and Winter games, to avoid the exact pick and chose discussion problem we have in this thread ?




Do you really beleive that NBC has minimal influence over the upcoming Olympics just because the current deals extend out thru 2012. Just look at what happens pretty much every olympics - the US networks (NBC) pretty much set (or at least have a VERY SIGNIFICANT influence) on setting many event schedules.
 

Mess

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kdb209 said:
Do you really beleive that NBC has minimal influence over the upcoming Olympics just because the current deals extend out thru 2012. Just look at what happens pretty much every olympics - the US networks (NBC) pretty much set (or at least have a VERY SIGNIFICANT influence) on setting many event schedules.
You have changed the topic from scheduling of events based on significant $$$ paid to broadcast .. That doesn't matter to IOC cordinators if an event happens in the morning or at night ..

We are talking about content here and the TC station telling the IOC who will be in the Olympics .. You don't see that as a different issue ..

Not arguing that sure they would love the NHL players with out doubt .. But you are taking broadcast rights to 5 Olympics here .. 3 summer and 2 winter .. and one coming up in Italy that has NHL players in real jeopardy due to the unresolved lockout .. If it is solved the NHL is hesitant to break for the Olympics and so ..

You are basing your whole point on NBC influencing 2010 and the Hockey event only ..5 years before the time, when they have already agreed to the $$$$ funding today and the teams are not even required to release the names until a week before the event etc.. These events are sold out years in advance of the event .. How does who will be on the ice chage that. ..Fans asking for refunds based on their Favourite player not in attendance.

Next you going to be saying that NBC will be picking the teams and if Team Canada chooses Crosby, Carter, Phaneuf to lead the charge you want NBC to step in and sy no Iginla, Gangne and Redden better be on the team ..

I really don't see how you have any real case here at all based on broadcast rights anyways.. NO doubt the city of Vancouver will be pushing real hard as well but the IOC and NHL (availabilty) have a say in this matter as well that is above anyone's control. IMO
 

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The Iconoclast said:
You're kidding? So NBC would prefer having another group of Mike Eruzionis to broadcast rather than Mike Modanos? NBC would rather have teams filled with no ones than with stars to promote a short tournament like the olympic hockey tournament? Aren't you one of the clowns that has been preaching to all that will hear that the PLAYERS are the game and THEY are the ones who bring the fans in, NOT the game itself? So if you take that stance does it also not follow that same logic that NBC would rather have recognizable names (the ones they have been broadcasting) on the ice rather than nobodies? You can't have it both ways! Either the athletes are the game, as you have been saying for months, or they are just an interchangeable piece that can be easily replaced and the fans will continue to watch. Which is it? Nice job of painting yourself into the proverbial corner. You're on a roll and its a laugh riot to watch!!!

:biglaugh:

Huh. No reply to the Players are the product versus the olympics don't care who the players are topic. Interesting.
 
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