Will the NHL try Atlanta again?

[Krishna]

I hope not

 

[Duke749]

Regardless of the excuses for lack of fans, facts are facts. Overall, the fan support for NHL hockey in Atlanta was poor. Some southern markets work (see Nashville and LA) and others don't (see Phoenix, Atlanta and Florida). There is nothing wrong with that either. It's like trying to make Cricket popular in Mongolia; it ain't ever gonna happen because there will never be a large enough fanbase to provide that support. That is just life, and some people need to accept that.

The irony behind this post is that Winnipeg had some of the same problems that Atlanta had, yet some people like to ignore facts of their situations and not look in the mirror.

 

[Llama19]

The irony behind this post is that Winnipeg had some of the same problems that Atlanta had, yet some people like to ignore facts of their situations and not look in the mirror.

Everyone needs to do this...

 

[cbcwpg]

The owners (ASG) did not want a hockey team in their building.

That's it. No need for over analyzing things.

And when someone else comes along that either:

A - doesn't mind competing with ASG and wants to build a building to host a hockey team ( not always a good plan.... See: a team out west )

OR

B - buys out ASG and wants to put an NHL team back in the arena

then the NHL will look at Atlanta again.

 

[cheswick]

The Thrashers had both their best season on the ice and in the stands under ASG ownership. They averaged under 14,000 twice under the prior ownership group. That ASG somehow conspired to suddenly tank the team to lose money and unload hte Thrashers is pretty far fetched imo.


The Thrashers attendance over the years:
2000- 2001: 15,262 - 22nd in the league
2001-2002: 13,668 - 28th in the league
2002-2003: 13,475 - 28th in the league
2003-2004: 15,121 - 22nd in the league
2004-2005: lockout
2005-2006: 15,550 - 22nd
2006-2007: 16,238 - 21st
2007-2008: 15,824 - 22nd
2008-2009: 14,408 - 29th
2009-2010: 13,607 - 28th
2010-2011: 13,212 - 28th

 

[Bongo]

The Thrashers had both their best season on the ice and in the stands under ASG ownership. They averaged under 14,000 twice under the prior ownership group. That ASG somehow conspired to suddenly tank the team to lose money and unload hte Thrashers is pretty far fetched imo.

Yet that's exactly what happened. I knew something was up when Don Waddell let Marc Savard walk.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The Thrashers had both their best season on the ice and in the stands under ASG ownership. They averaged under 14,000 twice under the prior ownership group. That ASG somehow conspired to suddenly tank the team to lose money and unload hte Thrashers is pretty far fetched imo.


The Thrashers attendance over the years:
2000- 2001: 15,262 - 22nd in the league
2001-2002: 13,668 - 28th in the league
2002-2003: 13,475 - 28th in the league
2003-2004: 15,121 - 22nd in the league
2004-2005: lockout
2005-2006: 15,550 - 22nd
2006-2007: 16,238 - 21st
2007-2008: 15,824 - 22nd
2008-2009: 14,408 - 29th
2009-2010: 13,607 - 28th
2010-2011: 13,212 - 28th

They got the team in 2005. Take a look at the trend during most of ownership. Attendance went down every single year after '06/'07. Four straight years.

 

[Duke749]

The Thrashers had both their best season on the ice and in the stands under ASG ownership. They averaged under 14,000 twice under the prior ownership group. That ASG somehow conspired to suddenly tank the team to lose money and unload hte Thrashers is pretty far fetched imo.


The Thrashers attendance over the years:
2000- 2001: 15,262 - 22nd in the league
2001-2002: 13,668 - 28th in the league
2002-2003: 13,475 - 28th in the league
2003-2004: 15,121 - 22nd in the league
2004-2005: lockout
2005-2006: 15,550 - 22nd
2006-2007: 16,238 - 21st
2007-2008: 15,824 - 22nd
2008-2009: 14,408 - 29th
2009-2010: 13,607 - 28th
2010-2011: 13,212 - 28th

Yet that's exactly what happened. You can "think" it wasn't the case, but it's truly what happened.

I remember how they had reported the Thrashers had lost $20 million over a span of 5 years, but later on it came out that they had only lost $7-8 million per year. ASG lost money from both the Hawks and Thrashers. Granted, it's their own dam fault for suing each other.

 

[Doan Jidion*]

The Thrashers attendance over the years:
2000- 2001: 15,262 - 22nd in the league
2001-2002: 13,668 - 28th in the league
2002-2003: 13,475 - 28th in the league
2003-2004: 15,121 - 22nd in the league
2004-2005: lockout
2005-2006: 15,550 - 22nd
2006-2007: 16,238 - 21st
2007-2008: 15,824 - 22nd
2008-2009: 14,408 - 29th
2009-2010: 13,607 - 28th
2010-2011: 13,212 - 28th

We need to go back there. People who were kids in 2007 will be old enough to buy season tickets!

 

[cbcwpg]

That ASG somehow conspired to suddenly tank the team to lose money and unload hte Thrashers is pretty far fetched imo.

The plan wasn't to lose buckets of money, but the plan from ASG was to always unload the Thrashers. I'm not digging up quotes and there are historical threads in the archives to go digging thru if you want, but ASG more or less "said" that they could make more money by having other events fill the dates that the Thrashers were taking up. ASG did not want a hockey team.

 

[Killion]

That ASG somehow conspired to suddenly tank the team to lose money and unload the Thrashers is pretty far fetched imo.

The plan wasn't to lose buckets of money, but the plan from ASG was to always unload the Thrashers. I'm not digging up quotes and there are historical threads in the archives to go digging thru if you want, but ASG more or less "said" that they could make more money by having other events fill the dates that the Thrashers were taking up. ASG did not want a hockey team.

... no, its pretty well documented cheswick. They never did want the Thrashers nor to be part of the NHL. Their interest was in the Building, the NBA franchise. This isnt some tinfoil cap theory, they were looking for a way out before they'd even come through the door as cbc & others state. Sabotage.

 

[masa2009]

Atlanta just doesn't seem to be a very good sports market, period.
The Hawks, despite playing out of a very large city loaded with some of the most affluent black families in the US, seem to lose a good chunk of cash.
The Braves made headlines a few years ago for struggling to sell out playoff games.

Attendance for the Thrashers was decent in the first year, but fell noticeably right after that despite a populous market, showing the city's tolerance of an expansion franchise's inevitably mediocre results to be extremely low.

The Atlanta Knights of the IHL seemed to draw pretty damn well for such a market, so it's sad that they couldn't transfer some of that good will to the major league model.

Maybe an AHL farm team of the Preds could work. Apparently they are showing select Preds games in ATL.

 

[Fugu]

The plan wasn't to lose buckets of money, but the plan from ASG was to always unload the Thrashers. I'm not digging up quotes and there are historical threads in the archives to go digging thru if you want, but ASG more or less "said" that they could make more money by having other events fill the dates that the Thrashers were taking up. ASG did not want a hockey team.

That's how I remember it as well. If they believed they could make more money by running the hockey team properly, why wouldn't they do it? Sure, their personal preference was with NBA ownership but they bought into the model that dual anchor tenancy made financial sense. Well, as it turned out, they were making more money for nonhockey arena dates so that drove the decision.

 

[adsfan]

Atlanta just doesn't seem to be a very good sports market, period.
The Hawks, despite playing out of a very large city loaded with some of the most affluent black families in the US, seem to lose a good chunk of cash.
The Braves made headlines a few years ago for struggling to sell out playoff games.

Attendance for the Thrashers was decent in the first year, but fell noticeably right after that despite a populous market, showing the city's tolerance of an expansion franchise's inevitably mediocre results to be extremely low.

The Atlanta Knights of the IHL seemed to draw pretty damn well for such a market, so it's sad that they couldn't transfer some of that good will to the major league model.

Maybe an AHL farm team of the Preds could work. Apparently they are showing select Preds games in ATL.

Gee, no thanks! Nashville has been affiliated with Milwaukee from their start in 1998. That is 16 years and counting. How many other NHL / AHL pairings have lasted that long? The players seem to like it here. I see some of them around town out of season. You can get just about anywhere around Milwaukee in 30 minutes. In Atlanta, sometimes you can't go a mile in 30 minutes on the expressway!

 

[Puckschmuck*]

ASG did not want a hockey team.

And as such, if they did not want a venue in their building, for whatever reason, at the end of the day it's their right to evict or remove it somehow. Now their method may not have been the most upfront in our eyes, but at the end of the day it's their building and their choice. This is what can happen when living in a free society.

 

[aqib]

Ok Vancouver, Ottawa & Winnipeg 2 teams in Alberta, GTA & Quebec, where does that last team go?

Hamilton. I actually think a team north of Toronto and one in Hamilton could work. Both regions are growing

 

[aqib]

But Winnipeg's attendance was awful for much of the early 90's. Why did should the NHL be back in Winnipeg and not Atlanta?

1) Winnipeg attendence awful because it had a horrible arena with many obstructed views.

2) Winnipeg tanked once. Atlanta has failed twice. If Jets2 doesn't work than there won't be Jets 3.

3) Save the Jets rally drew thousands of people. Save the Thrashers had how many people?

Let me quash a couple of oft-repeated lines:

1) Atlanta has 5.5 million and growing by whatever a year. Yeah so? Follow that logic and we should have 3 teams in Mexico City. As much as we love hockey its not mainstream

2) Atlanta had horrible ownership if they had good ownership it would be fine. Viable markets attract owners. When Time Warner put the Hawks/Thrashers/Arena Rights up for sale they got $270 million. If you look at other NBA deals around that time they basically got $0 for the team. ASG's legal issues were well documented. Their need for capital was also well known. No one came with the interest to buy both teams. Given that they almost sold 80% of the Hawks a few months later shows they weren't adamant about keeping the Hawks so someone could have bought both teams. If the market was good for hockey someone would have bought it.

 

[Melrose Munch]

1) Winnipeg attendence awful because it had a horrible arena with many obstructed views.

2) Winnipeg tanked once. Atlanta has failed twice. If Jets2 doesn't work than there won't be Jets 3.

3) Save the Jets rally drew thousands of people. Save the Thrashers had how many people?

Let me quash a couple of oft-repeated lines:

1) Atlanta has 5.5 million and growing by whatever a year. Yeah so? Follow that logic and we should have 3 teams in Mexico City. As much as we love hockey its not mainstream

2) Atlanta had horrible ownership if they had good ownership it would be fine. Viable markets attract owners. When Time Warner put the Hawks/Thrashers/Arena Rights up for sale they got $270 million. If you look at other NBA deals around that time they basically got $0 for the team. ASG's legal issues were well documented. Their need for capital was also well known. No one came with the interest to buy both teams. Given that they almost sold 80% of the Hawks a few months later shows they weren't adamant about keeping the Hawks so someone could have bought both teams. If the market was good for hockey someone would have bought it.

MLG was pretty ugly too, didn't affect attendance.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

1) Winnipeg attendence awful because it had a horrible arena with many obstructed views.

2) Winnipeg tanked once. Atlanta has failed twice. If Jets2 doesn't work than there won't be Jets 3.

3) Save the Jets rally drew thousands of people. Save the Thrashers had how many people?

Let me quash a couple of oft-repeated lines:

1) Atlanta has 5.5 million and growing by whatever a year. Yeah so? Follow that logic and we should have 3 teams in Mexico City. As much as we love hockey its not mainstream

2) Atlanta had horrible ownership if they had good ownership it would be fine. Viable markets attract owners. When Time Warner put the Hawks/Thrashers/Arena Rights up for sale they got $270 million. If you look at other NBA deals around that time they basically got $0 for the team. ASG's legal issues were well documented. Their need for capital was also well known. No one came with the interest to buy both teams. Given that they almost sold 80% of the Hawks a few months later shows they weren't adamant about keeping the Hawks so someone could have bought both teams. If the market was good for hockey someone would have bought it.

Yeah, you didn't quash those oft-repeated lines...you used a straw man argument. The whole deal with selling 80% of the Hawks was never serious. The entire idea that if the market was good for hockey someone would have bought it is flat-out false. If the people who run the arena don't want the team there, they aren't going to be there regardless of the market being good for hockey.

 

[Fugu]

1) Winnipeg attendence awful because it had a horrible arena with many obstructed views.

2) Winnipeg tanked once. Atlanta has failed twice. If Jets2 doesn't work than there won't be Jets 3.

3) Save the Jets rally drew thousands of people. Save the Thrashers had how many people?

Let me quash a couple of oft-repeated lines:

1) Atlanta has 5.5 million and growing by whatever a year. Yeah so? Follow that logic and we should have 3 teams in Mexico City. As much as we love hockey its not mainstream

2) Atlanta had horrible ownership if they had good ownership it would be fine. Viable markets attract owners. When Time Warner put the Hawks/Thrashers/Arena Rights up for sale they got $270 million. If you look at other NBA deals around that time they basically got $0 for the team. ASG's legal issues were well documented. Their need for capital was also well known. No one came with the interest to buy both teams. Given that they almost sold 80% of the Hawks a few months later shows they weren't adamant about keeping the Hawks so someone could have bought both teams. If the market was good for hockey someone would have bought it.

To be fair, I think if any nontraditional market fan offered this reason, it would be immediately laughed off and labeled as an excuse.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Pigs have a better chance at flying. Quebec City, Seattle, Kansas City, Houston & Markham are all viable options with potential parties who have expressed interest in the NHL. When only 400 folks appeared at a rally to show support for the Thrashers, it pretty much signaled that there are not enough fans in Atlanta to support an NHL team in both good times and bad times.

If that's true, can we FINALLY shut up about Hartford?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=zMVYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=t_8MAAAAIBAJ&pg=1771,1396021&dq=

Also, notice that this was a year before the Whalers actually moved. The Thrashers' rally was after the sale had already been finalized but not yet announced.

 

[Killion]

MLG was pretty ugly too, didn't affect attendance.

Maple Leaf Gardens "ugly"? I beg to differ MM. Grand old building. Fabulous. Loved it.
All of the old buildings in fact & miss the character, the nuances & charm of all of them.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Maple Leaf Gardens "ugly"? I beg to differ MM. Grand old building. Fabulous. Loved it.
All of the old buildings in fact & miss the character, the nuances & charm of all of them.

...and who could forget the fog in Boston Garden, amplified by rats running over your feet and the smell of stale urine emanating from points unknown?

 

[Killion]

...and who could forget the fog in Boston Garden, amplified by rats running over your feet and the smell of stale urine emanating from points unknown?

Easily fixed, all they had to do was install air conditioning & call in Billy the Exterminator... or mebbe Billys dad... Billy wouldve been knee high to a grasshopper back then I guess.... still, time to go for that old grande dame. Built by Tex Rickard in the late 20's, was the 2nd of what old Tex hoped would be 7 "Gardens" after New York with MSG all over the country. Those plans never realized what with his untimely death in 1929.

 

[aqib]

To be fair, I think if any nontraditional market fan offered this reason, it would be immediately laughed off and labeled as an excuse.

To be fair, if a non-traditional markets wouldn't be using arenas built in the 1950s.