Will the A's/Rays end up relocating?

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Sports' started by MMC, Jan 14, 2021.

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Will the A's/Rays have to relocate?

  1. The A's will relocate

    14.3%
  2. The Rays will relocate

    44.9%
  3. Both teams will relocate

    20.4%
  4. Neither team will relocate

    20.4%
  1. Bjorn Le Hobocop

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    I know the lease is written quite comprehensively to deal with these situations, but I thought the 2024 date was when the penalties for breaking early start to become pro-rated based on the time remaining. But there is no impediment to the parties mutually agreeing to a new deal, if they so chose. Sternberg is using Montreal as leverage for a new stadium, but if public authorities aren't going to give the Rays and MLB what they want, they'll simply wait for the lease to expire and then move without any restrictions, giving St. Petersburg nothing. Have to imagine that, at least theoretically, St. Pete would at least consider a deal.

    I don't get the impression that MLB wants to rush expansion/relocation. Yes, it would suck for Tampa to remain in that shithole for six more years, and Oakland could use a new stadium yesterday, but six years is not that long. I still think it's more likely that Oakland will get a deal done (and they would already have one if SF would relinquish San Jose). Once that is in place, you can either wait out the St. Pete lease, move forward with expansion with the two cities who are closest to being ready (likely Montreal/Nashville) and then move the Rays to the third city for the 2028 season.

    I am not sure where Sternberg's headspace is now. With no insider information I doubt he is very optimistic that he'll get a new stadium in the Tampa area. But I don't know if his contingency if he doesn't get the stadium is to pursue relocation to Montreal himself (with or without Bronfman), pursue relocation elsewhere in the United States, or simply sell the team to someone else who will relocate.
     
  2. KevFu Registered User

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    Right, contracts are just agreements that the parties can amend anytime they feel like it. It just doesn't make any sense for the Rays to buy their way out yet, considering they don't have a destination to go to; and it doesn't make sense for the city of Tampa to negotiate the Rays exit, either.

    The only reason MLB isn't rushing to expand is because BOTH Tampa and Oakland have this issue. If Oakland built a new stadium in 2010 and moved in already, MLB probably would have either expanded by now, or have at least awarded teams and been arguing over how to format the league with 32. Manfred has mentioned expansion like every 6 months for at least 5 years, probably closer to 7. MLB isn't looking to drum up interest. They have 3 candidates who are seriously into the process.

    And don't get me started on the Giants/San Jose debacle. The Giants have San Jose exclusively because (a) the A's signed their consent to streamline the process when baseball was in massive turmoil and didn't have time to take a league-wide vote, then (b) when AL/NL merged operations, someone rewriting three old documents into one MLB document misinterpreted that consent into exclusive territory and the A's new owners signed off on the new documents. It was a clerical error. It shouldn't be the Giants exclusive territory.
     
  3. gstommylee Registered User

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    If MLB wasn't give anti-trust exemption by the courts, the giants wouldn't been able to block the attempt of the A's to go to San Jose.
     
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  4. Bjorn Le Hobocop

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    I know, what I’m saying is if Montreal (or any of the other cities) was ready to put shovels in the ground for a new stadium, you’d see talks to contractually break the Rays out of St. Pete, or expansion formally proceed. You wouldn’t have a situation where the new prospective city and MLB freeze over who is going to make the first move. It would all just come together seamlessly.
     
  5. Bondurant Registered User

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    Tampa is a different animal. Rays don't move the needle. There is no political reckoning if Rays move.
     
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  6. KevFu Registered User

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    That could be true if the A's stadium deal was done. What happens if you play a game of Musical Chairs with more chairs than people? It goes on for eternity.

    That's what's happening now: There's no risk of BOTH teams leaving their markets, because there's 3 cites out there and four teams for those three cities to get (Expansion 1, Expansion 2, Rays, Athletics).

    The only place for the A's and Rays to move to is the "expansion loser" city, which will only get one team, leaving the other with no leverage for a new stadium; and that's why MLB can't expand yet.

    Now, there's one other potential city that enters the picture if MLB said "screw it, expanded first!" And it's crazy, and will never happen, but is fun to think about: The Rays move to Montreal, and Nashville and Portland get expansion teams; Now there's a city the A's could go to: Tampa Bay. If losing the Rays makes the city of Tampa or St. Pete, or whichever technically, willing to build a stadium -- we've seen it in Minnesota and Winnipeg with the NHL, Cleveland in the NFL, Charlotte and the NBA -- then the A's could move there.

    That same situation, but going the other way: From Tampa to Oakland would be a lot more complicated due to the shared market of the Bay Area. Chances are that scenario (which again is never going to happen but fun to ponder) would be that the A's decide to move, so Oakland then courts the Rays; and an agreement is reached where the TB owners take over the A's in Oakland, while the A's ownership takes over a rebranded team in the new city.
     
  7. KevFu Registered User

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    The Rays ARE popular. It's just not convenient for the fans to go to the stadium's location, hence this whole ordeal. Their local TV ratings are 14th in MLB, and if you market-adjusted that, their share is quite good. (I wish we had actual stats for TV market size for each team based on how the USA/Canada is divided 30 ways, because looking at DMAs and CSA is silly when every inch of US/Canada is carved up among the teams).


    But you do have a point, TAMPA don't really need to bend over backwards for the Rays, because they can't LOSE the Rays. They're St. Pete's to lose.
     
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  8. Centrum Hockey Registered User

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    Its not going to happen but I would like to see the rays owner take over one of MLB's problem children (CWS MIA BAL).If he sells the rays to an ownership group that will move the team.
     
  9. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    Miami isn't selling.... Centrum.... it's Jeter..... the White Sox aren't a problem franchise.... if that happens, likely a new ownership would be forced to take on the Bulls in addition to the White Sox..... what makes Baltimore a problematic franchise if the Nationals aren't splitting their territory
     
  10. Mightygoose Registered User

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    Don't know about issues with CWS and MIA. Regarding Baltimore, after months...perhaps over a year of lease extension talks, it's only been extended by 2 years.

    Maryland Stadium Authority, Baltimore Orioles Agree To 2-Year Lease Extension At Camden Yards – CBS Baltimore (cbslocal.com)

    It was originally up after this upcoming season and they had a 5 year option. So after all that they lock in shorter time frame. They now have a 5 year option Feb 1, 2023.

    They also have a cloudy ownership situation that I don't think gets resolved until Peter Angelo passes. One would think setting up a long term lease would be a priority if the team we're to be on the market soon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
  11. Maestro84 Registered User

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    It's such a shame Tampa gets no local support for their teams. They've all been having some unbelievable success recently:

    Lightning - Stanley Cup Champs
    Bucs - Super Bowl Champs
    Rays - World Series Finalists
    Temporarily got an NBA team playing in their city

    If this were any other city, they'd be at an-time high in terms of excitement and cockiness, but because it's Tampa, no one there gives a s*** since none of them are even from TB. Imagine if this were Boston or Toronto or Philly, we'd never hear the end of it from their fans lol
     
  12. KevFu Registered User

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    Again, they DO give a shit... it's a geography problem. Look at a map of the Tampa Bay area. You've got 1 million people on the left half, 1.4 million on the right half.

    If you built a stadium in the exact center of the metro population so EVERYONe who wants to go easily can.... you'd be underwater

    upload_2021-2-12_15-46-53.png
     
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  13. MMC Global Moderator

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    Looks like another major hurdle in terms of the A's getting Howard Terminal done.

     
  14. Centrum Hockey Registered User

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    The coliseum site has so much space for new A’s ballpark idk why they are so determined to keep Oakland arena standing.
     
  15. oknazevad Registered User

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    The arena is fully functional, if a little cramped, and the Bay Area is big enough that a third venue is viable for things like concerts even without a major tenant. Heck, the Cow Palace still books shows, and that place is ancient and small. No need to knock down the arena.

    That said, a new, smaller ballpark on what's now part of the Coliseum parking lot would be a much less disruptive idea. However, the team has never seemed to like the idea, apparently because the kinda out-of-the way, semi-suburban location of the Coliseum is seen as outdated in an era of centrally located ballparks.
     
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  16. Mightygoose Registered User

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    Might be more in the partial Rays relocation file...or could be expansion

    Stade de baseball | Stephen Bronfman veut une aide financière de Québec | La Presse

    Rough translation on part of the article.

    "For several years, Mr. Bronfman's group has avoided giving details of how the new baseball stadium would be funded. But Claridge, Stephan Bronfman's investment company, just registered Monday with the Quebec Lobbyists Register so he could discuss with the Legault government a "financial contribution" from Quebec for the baseball stadium. Claridge did not specify the exact amount or form of the "financial contribution" requested for this multi-hundred-million-dollar project. "The money will be used to build the complex. The amount of this financial contribution remains to be determined, as are the sources of funding," the lobbying mandate states.

    According to public lobbying records, Mr. Bronfman's group did not apply to the Government of Canada and the City of Montreal for this project. However, the land coveted by Mr. Bronfman's group at Peel Basin is owned by the federal government through the Canada Lands Corporation"

    And now the ask.
     
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  17. MMC Global Moderator

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  18. BKIslandersFan ITS TIME TO GO!

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    Honestly, considering it takes time to get a new stadium built elsewhere, Rays don't really need to break the lease.
     
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  19. MMC Global Moderator

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  20. DaBadGuy7 Registered User

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    Looks like A’s are considering relocating:



     
  21. dilbert719 Registered User

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    I know it's not happening, but if Oakland doesn't come through, how about coming home? AL baseball in Philadelphia, baby!
     
  22. Mightygoose Registered User

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    The A's have been very public on the city voting on the Howard Terminal plan before council breaks for the summer.

    The passive threat is the next card to be played.
     
  23. DaBadGuy7 Registered User

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  24. PCSPounder Stadium Groupie

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    What does Oakland net from local TV rights?

    What can Oakland net from TV rights in a new East Bay location? (Imagine them finding land just on the Alameda County side of the line with Santa Clara County, much closer to San Jose than Oakland)

    What can they get in Las Vegas? [spit take] What can they get in Portland (somewhat better, but it’s not California)?

    Vancouver? :D
     
  25. generalshepherd141 Registered User

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    That would be awesome. They won 5 World Series titles in Philly after all.

    NL baseball back in Boston would be cool to see as well, but like you said, highly doubting either happens.
     
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