Oakland A's and Tampa Bay Rays Potential Relocation Thread
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Mightygoose
Registered User
Hard to say in either case.
IIRC, the A's have an option with the with the Howard Terminal port until May 2023 and a lease that runs through the 2024 season. So there is still time to work out the Community Benefits Agreement and the final land sale of the city's half of the Coliseum lands, plus whatever else needs to be done.
The Rays plans seems to be going nowhere right now but their lease runs through the 2027 season. Tampa mayor castor has been vocal about building the new stadium there but nothing so far. City election in St. Pete's later this year and the mayor is termed out so there will be a new look next year. Lots of runway to go there too. Covid doesn't help. But something will need to happen in the next 12-24 months to get this silly dual city plan with Montreal gone IMO.
I would say the Rays are more likely to move than the A's but I'm torn between that and neither
IIRC, the A's have an option with the with the Howard Terminal port until May 2023 and a lease that runs through the 2024 season. So there is still time to work out the Community Benefits Agreement and the final land sale of the city's half of the Coliseum lands, plus whatever else needs to be done.
The Rays plans seems to be going nowhere right now but their lease runs through the 2027 season. Tampa mayor castor has been vocal about building the new stadium there but nothing so far. City election in St. Pete's later this year and the mayor is termed out so there will be a new look next year. Lots of runway to go there too. Covid doesn't help. But something will need to happen in the next 12-24 months to get this silly dual city plan with Montreal gone IMO.
I would say the Rays are more likely to move than the A's but I'm torn between that and neither
KevFu
Registered User
There's no movement for the Rays because they're holding an empty gun.
These deals don't usually get done until politicians realize "I can't be the person who let the team leave or I won't get re-elected" and the Rays can't leave for another 7 years. All those politicians have to run again FIRST before that time comes. So, there's no reason for them to move now.
Oakland, the politicians are a lot more likely to work with them because the A's can walk at virtually any time they want to. They have a few years left on their lease extension, but they can buy their way out of it for $1.2 million per year, which is chump change to an MLB team. They just don't have a great place to go. They just bought half the Coliseum site from the city, which was part of the deal for the Howard Terminal site -- instead of the city giving the A's money, they'd give the team the ability to develop the site and make money off of that to fund the stadium (Like the Islanders Lighthouse idea).
It's far more likely Oakland gets done before Tampa, and it's far more likely both get deals done than anyone moves.
These deals don't usually get done until politicians realize "I can't be the person who let the team leave or I won't get re-elected" and the Rays can't leave for another 7 years. All those politicians have to run again FIRST before that time comes. So, there's no reason for them to move now.
Oakland, the politicians are a lot more likely to work with them because the A's can walk at virtually any time they want to. They have a few years left on their lease extension, but they can buy their way out of it for $1.2 million per year, which is chump change to an MLB team. They just don't have a great place to go. They just bought half the Coliseum site from the city, which was part of the deal for the Howard Terminal site -- instead of the city giving the A's money, they'd give the team the ability to develop the site and make money off of that to fund the stadium (Like the Islanders Lighthouse idea).
It's far more likely Oakland gets done before Tampa, and it's far more likely both get deals done than anyone moves.
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
I will be downright astonished if the Rays don't move at the end of their lease. That just seems like a poisoned well to me down there.
A's are more iffy to me. I think in the long run they'll view staying in the Bar Area as more lucrative than moving elsewhere, but I'm not going to definitively rule out them bolting to Sacramento or Portland. My money would be on staying in Oakland or going to a nearby city in the Bay Area.
A's are more iffy to me. I think in the long run they'll view staying in the Bar Area as more lucrative than moving elsewhere, but I'm not going to definitively rule out them bolting to Sacramento or Portland. My money would be on staying in Oakland or going to a nearby city in the Bay Area.
Mightygoose
Registered User
Perhaps this can go in another/new thread
If this goes anywhere, how would this complicate the A's stadium plan. The plan hinges on them owning 100% of the land (currently have 50%).
Stewart's group is offering 30 million more than the A's. If this group is serious, optics won't look good selling public land for less.
If this goes anywhere, how would this complicate the A's stadium plan. The plan hinges on them owning 100% of the land (currently have 50%).
Stewart's group is offering 30 million more than the A's. If this group is serious, optics won't look good selling public land for less.
What's the best long term decision for the city though?
Sell the land for less now, but there will be a new stadium built, keep the A's team there for the next 3 decades and more. Thus you get tax revenue from the players, staff, organization for years to come.
What does the city get long term for selling the land at market value now? If the A's stay around somewhere else, no loss in the end. If they leave the area to another city, like Portland, then you lose that revenue.
Mightygoose
Registered User
Yes, a very good question that faces the city
I think it comes down to how the city values having the A's in the city. Another development would bring in tax revenue to the city as well, in addition to getting 30 million more and also saving money on infrastructure costs at Howard Terminal. At the same time if they feel there's a quality of life value in being home to a major league team, there's a non economic value.
Being publicly owned land, is the city even allowed to sell it or less or without a competitive bid?
Burke the Legend
Registered User
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Yeah but they could just put in stipulations into the tender that a MLB ballpark for the Oakland Athletics is an obligatory part of the development. If you don't own the Oakland Athletics you're probably not going to bid.
The thing is I think both teams are in good markets right now. Where would either of them move to? We've seen that the SF Bay area can support 2 MLB teams, and while the Rays always suffer from poor attendance, they are consistently at least about league average in terms of local TV audience. In terms of markets that these teams could move to, people forget the Expos regularly averaged under 10k fans per home game in their later years. Portland doesn't have a ballpark, or even a temporary one. Nashville would not support an MLB team, as it already has 3 Big 5 sports teams and is not a particularly large market.
If either of these teams are serious about moving, I'd look hard at Louisville. It would be the smallest market in MLB, but the only serious competition within the market seems to be U of Louisville basketball. But if I'm the A's or Rays, I'd try my best to build a new ballpark within their current market, because I don't think the grass is greener on the other side.
If either of these teams are serious about moving, I'd look hard at Louisville. It would be the smallest market in MLB, but the only serious competition within the market seems to be U of Louisville basketball. But if I'm the A's or Rays, I'd try my best to build a new ballpark within their current market, because I don't think the grass is greener on the other side.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
In terms of baseball, Louisville would suffer from similar issues to Indianapolis; too many teams nearby would veto a move or expansion so hard. Heck, the proximity to Cincinnati alone makes it a non-starter. Basketball is the only sport of the major four that Louisville could legitimately break into.
Personally, I do see the Rays moving. Hopefully, the new mayor of St. Petersburg will be more friendly and/or forgiving of the Tropicana Field lease than Kriseman, who felt that the team honoring the lease was more important than anything else, despite the extreme unpopularity of the Field and the black eye said venue has on the city's history (since it was built in a black neighborhood and essentially killed it). I don't think many people will shed tears when that ugly thing comes crashing down one day.
While the Rays are popular on local TV, that doesn't translate to a national audience, and that also has not translated to attendance, which we can combine with both the atrocious venue and the team's frugal (polite way of saying "cheap as f***") attitude towards player retention; in other words, guys never stick around long enough to become household names as the moment their value increases, they must leave. Therefore, you would definitely visit the Field to see the other team, that likely has player retention and isn't beholden purely by the whims of fate. That does not help out the franchise whatsoever, regardless of how you spin it.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I didn't realize the A's were a relocation candidate. That's a damn shame, being 50+ years into their tenure.
Unless I'm missing somebody, the original Washington Senators (1901-61 --> Minnesota) and San Diego Chargers (1961-2017 --> LA) are the only major league teams to relocate after 50+ years.
Unless I'm missing somebody, the original Washington Senators (1901-61 --> Minnesota) and San Diego Chargers (1961-2017 --> LA) are the only major league teams to relocate after 50+ years.
Mightygoose
Registered User
There's been a few others. Noticeably MLB teams before they ventured west
Brooklyn Dodgers 1890-1958
New York Giants 1893-1958
Boston Braves 1871-1953
St. Louis Browns 1902-1952
Philadelphia A's 1901-1954. Oddly enough if the A's we're to leave the Bay Area, I believe they will be the only major league team to be in one place 50+ years and relocate twice.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
That's why there needs to be a salary floor in MLB. For all the talks about a salary cap in the league against teams like the Yankees and the Dodgers, there should be a league minimum to force notorious cheapskates like Bob "Spend Nutting, Win Nutting" in Pittsburgh to pay players. It would make life miserable for some owners, but it has to be done to encourage some franchises to not be glorified farm teams.
Mightygoose
Registered User
Something that dawned upon me. Dave Stewart is also part of the group trying to bring a MLB team to Nashville
Group of Nashville’s African American leaders invest in Music City Baseball - Nashville Business Journal (bizjournals.com)
Maybe related...maybe not. MLB won't expand unless the A's stadium situation is resolved (plus the Rays situation and never mind Covid), does his involvement here force the city's hand one way or another? If the A's want to be in the new stadium in 2023 there's little time and the ship may have sailed for that timeframe. With the lease running through 2024 the runway is getting shorter.
Group of Nashville’s African American leaders invest in Music City Baseball - Nashville Business Journal (bizjournals.com)
Maybe related...maybe not. MLB won't expand unless the A's stadium situation is resolved (plus the Rays situation and never mind Covid), does his involvement here force the city's hand one way or another? If the A's want to be in the new stadium in 2023 there's little time and the ship may have sailed for that timeframe. With the lease running through 2024 the runway is getting shorter.
Mightygoose
Registered User
Back to the Rays part of these tales.
St. Petersburg Mayor At Stand-Still With Tampa Bay Rays Over Stadium Plans – CBS Tampa (cbslocal.com)
City looking at 7 different proposals to redevelop the site. Rays want 50% of the land and get 100% of those proceeds PLUS 50% of the rights $$$ of the other half....for a part time team.
Mayor looks like he will chose the winning bid in a few months and tell the Rays to work with the developer....adds another mouth to feed in the project while Mayor Kriseman will be out by the end of the year....around and round this goes.
St. Petersburg Mayor At Stand-Still With Tampa Bay Rays Over Stadium Plans – CBS Tampa (cbslocal.com)
City looking at 7 different proposals to redevelop the site. Rays want 50% of the land and get 100% of those proceeds PLUS 50% of the rights $$$ of the other half....for a part time team.
Mayor looks like he will chose the winning bid in a few months and tell the Rays to work with the developer....adds another mouth to feed in the project while Mayor Kriseman will be out by the end of the year....around and round this goes.
Tampa is a lost cause but Montreal needs a plan or Nashville could swoop in.
The problem with Tampa Bay is no matter where you could build a stadium it would still rank 30th in population within a 30-minute drive of the park. The NYY training complex in Westshore might work for a stadium but it is a gamble. The bigger issue has always been residents have never embraced baseball as teams in the FSL around Tampa had issues attracting fans.
The problem with Tampa Bay is no matter where you could build a stadium it would still rank 30th in population within a 30-minute drive of the park. The NYY training complex in Westshore might work for a stadium but it is a gamble. The bigger issue has always been residents have never embraced baseball as teams in the FSL around Tampa had issues attracting fans.
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
Some time ago, like 2010-ish I remember seeing an article about the Rays impending relocation to Downtown Tampa, somewhere near the Hockey arena. The article even had a picture of what the new stadium would look like and made it sound like it was a done deal. I didn't follow this too much but here we are 10+ years later and nothing got built. It's too bad that things haven't worked out but shit happens.
The A's, I've heard about them possibly relocating to Portland and San Jose in the past but I also figured their history would save them in the end. I think they'll find a way to stick it out, but the Rays at this point are probably past the point of no return.
The A's, I've heard about them possibly relocating to Portland and San Jose in the past but I also figured their history would save them in the end. I think they'll find a way to stick it out, but the Rays at this point are probably past the point of no return.
sjsharks92
Registered User
As a Bay Area native, it pains me to say that I do think the A's are going to relocate. They simply can't get a stadium done in the East Bay and the Giants are reluctant to relinquish their South Bay rights. The owner is too cheap to do anything in the Bay Area. I see this team following the Raiders to Vegas.
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
The Rays would already be gone if MLB had a place to put them. The part-time deal was never going to happen and is a soft out for them to go to Montreal.
If Montreal could put up a new stadium like magic overnight you'd see the Rays paying to break the lease at Tropicana and moving to Montreal within weeks. Only question now is how long is it going to take for the Montreal ownership group to build a stadium. If it's going to be closer to 2030, maybe the Rays will move somewhere else and Montreal will get the expansion team. But the Rays are dead men walking. Like the Expos were after Loria took over.
If Montreal could put up a new stadium like magic overnight you'd see the Rays paying to break the lease at Tropicana and moving to Montreal within weeks. Only question now is how long is it going to take for the Montreal ownership group to build a stadium. If it's going to be closer to 2030, maybe the Rays will move somewhere else and Montreal will get the expansion team. But the Rays are dead men walking. Like the Expos were after Loria took over.
Montreal is a chicken/egg syndrome
Montreal will not break ground on a stadium until they know a team is assured - MLB will not commit to a team until ground is broken on a stadium.
MLB has sent strong hints that if Montreal starts building they would even allow a season or two at Stade Olympique as long as they know a new park is coming.
Mightygoose
Registered User
I think any location is a chicken and egg syndrome right now. With Montreal they need to keep it behind the scenes until MLB is ready.
Covid put things on the back burner. Expansion won't happen until both the Rays and A's are resolved. Unless the Rays are able to negotiate an out in the lease, Montreal (and likley anywhere else) doesn't have the prospects of a team to make a ballpark plan public.
With the Rays, I don't think the needle moves on this until the new major is in place.
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
Montreal’s real issue is how slow municipal politics goes. The city surely knows that they are guaranteed a franchise if they build a stadium, it’s just a matter of getting it setup.
It’s taking forever to negotiate the stadium as part of the Peel Basin redevelopment, but it will get done.
KevFu
Registered User
Tampa can't buy their way out of the lease until at least 2024, I believe.
The Rays would have a place to go (Nashville, Portland, Montreal), but the problem is that MLB wants to expand to two cities; leaving two teams (TB/OAK) with one city to go to should they need to move.
Like Mightygoose says, MLB is waiting on a stadium deal for OAK/TB before they can expand, but the reality is that they do not need to get deals done in BOTH Oakland and Tampa before expanding, they just need Oakland or Tampa to bite on a new stadium for their teams, and then the other one has the leverage they need.
