Will Sidney Crosby win another major NHL award in his career?

[wetcoast]

Those are two different seasons, so uh, yea, you are. And similar rosters does not mean in any way mean that players perform the same. Tristan Jarry had a .932 SV% in the time Crosby missed this year. Last year the Pens had a .917 SV%. That's a massive difference. Malkin and Kessel might have been PPG players, but they were absolutely atrocious defensively to the point of being liabilities. Malkn was much, much better this season and Rust was much better than Kessel was, becoming a PPG player himself. McCann played well as a 2nd line center. Marino came in and played like a top pairing defenseman. The differences are enormous, and it's absurd to suggest that the two teams are in related, and since your entire argument is based upon the premise that the two teams are the same, it completely falls apart.

Besides that, your entire premised is based on tearing down the idea that Crosby's Hart voting was because he "carried the team", which is a fabrication in itself. Crosby got those votes because of the quality of his play and the fact that his team made the playoffs. He was the 5th highest scorer in a season where the 2-4 scorers all missed the playoffs, while being a dominant all-around player. Even if you want to dismiss his defensive impact because of his utilization, the fact is that the team destroyed the opposition with him on the ice and did poorly without him. The team had a 65 GF% 5v5 with him on the ice and a 59 GF% with him on the ice at ES, but had a 48 GF% 5v5 and 49 GF% ES without him. But no, no, they were a great team that year based on a small sample the following year with unsustainable goaltending. Yea, it's bullshit. Honestly, it's just sad that you try to tear down "narratives" when this is the type of shit you're going to peddle as objective.

Stop making sense.



Perhaps it's me being drunk but at 1:31 of this video I can visualize MJ moving like major whitebread David Byrne and singing "Crosby can't play defense, Ovechkin is the best....stop fooling around....."

 

[wetcoast]

because crosby got injured

ironic eh?

 

[Varan]

ironic eh?

What do you mean

 

[wetcoast]

What do you mean

that MSL won an Art Ross at age 37 (older than Crosby is now) in part because Crosby was injured.

Heck Crosby only finished 4 points behind him that year.

Also he beat up on the southeast in that limited schedule that year.

It's just going to be incredibly difficult to win a major award at his age in the NHL given the number of teams and the talent in the league and his mindset to play a complete game to try and get another SC.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Nope, too much talent in the league now and though Crosby is still a top 10 player he's not the given best anymore. Could he win another possibly but if I'm betting I say no.

 

[Mighty Makar]

I think he could win another Conn Smythe, maybe another Hart.

 

[KIRK]

I think he could win another Conn Smythe, maybe another Hart.

Crosby's problems with winning another Hart are (a) that Malkin's still playing and playing well, which detracts from his chances and (b) that next year he'll be 33 years old.

A then 31 year old Joe Sakic, with Forsberg as his Robin, is the best comparable. Except that was the year of Mario Lemieux's comeback, and he and Jagr finished 2nd and 3rd in the voting, effectively canceling each other out. And Jagr and Sakic were the only 100 point players, with 121 and 118 points respectively (Patrick Elias was 3rd with 96 points).

So, comparatively, it would be like Crosby was in a scoring race with Drai and McDavid and nobody else was within 15-20 points.

Would never say never, but practically speaking, I just can't see that Sakic type of scenario today.

 

[Varan]

that MSL won an Art Ross at age 37 (older than Crosby is now) in part because Crosby was injured.

Heck Crosby only finished 4 points behind him that year.

Also he beat up on the southeast in that limited schedule that year.

It's just going to be incredibly difficult to win a major award at his age in the NHL given the number of teams and the talent in the league and his mindset to play a complete game to try and get another SC.

Well yeah if one of the top guys are injured then all bets are off, but we’re assuming everyone is in full health

Plus even if one gets hurt, there are too many top-forwards in the league now for Sid to leap-frog

McDaddy got hurt for a few games and Drai made the gap untouchable — in just a few games

 

[abo9]

In order of likeliness:
- Hart
- Art Ross
- Lindsay
- Conn Smythe



- Rocket

Here's why: If he plays with two good wingers who can score, he could pile up the assists. He's still a top forward in the league (6th in points last season), but to be "the" best point-producer he might need the help of his wingers, as opposed to the past.

A Hart is more likely imo, as he doesn't need to outscore others. Being top 10-15 in scoring would be enough if he can carry the Pens in the playoffs and the Pens suffer a couple injuries, or suck the year before.

Then, a Art Ross would be difficult, but it's Crosby, he's always more or less in the race when healthy. A Lindsay might be a little more difficult because voted by players.

A Conn Smythe relies to much on the Pens winning the Cup, and then he might be outdone by a teammate.

The Rocket just seems out of reach, if he were to win one or be close, I believe that the Art Ross/Hart/Lindsay would naturally come with it. too many players specializing in goal scoring for him to beat them.

 

[Varan]

In order of likeliness:
- Hart
- Art Ross
- Lindsay
- Conn Smythe



- Rocket

Here's why: If he plays with two good wingers who can score, he could pile up the assists. He's still a top forward in the league (6th in points last season), but to be "the" best point-producer he might need the help of his wingers, as opposed to the past.

A Hart is more likely imo, as he doesn't need to outscore others. Being top 10-15 in scoring would be enough if he can carry the Pens in the playoffs and the Pens suffer a couple injuries, or suck the year before.

Then, a Art Ross would be difficult, but it's Crosby, he's always more or less in the race when healthy. A Lindsay might be a little more difficult because voted by players.

A Conn Smythe relies to much on the Pens winning the Cup, and then he might be outdone by a teammate.

The Rocket just seems out of reach, if he were to win one or be close, I believe that the Art Ross/Hart/Lindsay would naturally come with it. too many players specializing in goal scoring for him to beat them.

I said Conn Smythe because:

- The Art Ross has been won by an average of 115 points in the last 3 years. If you want to take out Kucherov’s anomaly season and use McDavid’s total (which was second best), an average of 111 points. Crosby hasn’t come close to a 111 point average since 2013, and the last time he scored 110 was 2010. He’s turning 33 and I don’t see him generating that type of point total anymore, no way. Even in his 2014 MVP season, he hit 104.

- The Rocket is also difficult because you still have Ovechkin scoring 50 goals, and that’s the cut off from now on because it’s becoming harder for him to win (he won the last 2 by the skin of his teeth) and had to smash 50 this year just to get away from Pasta and Matthews. I don’t see Crosby hitting 50 ever again.

- Hart, maybe in an injured team season, but it’s usually going to the top producers if they make the playoffs. And he has Malkin on his team to take away votes. The 2 MVPs he won we’re when Malkin was a rookie and him missing 22 games. And it also doesn’t help that Malkin goes crazy when Crosby is out

- Lindsay, nope.

- Conn Smythe is the best because they’re still a great team and tough out, and it’s gonna be either Malkin or Crosby

 

[Madap]

All are unlikely I think, although the Smythe is probably the most doable.

But who knows, maybe Pens draft Lafreniere this year and him and Sid form a dominant line. Could possibly see another Ross, or Hart.

 

[abo9]

I said Conn Smythe because:

- The Art Ross has been won by an average of 115 points in the last 3 years. If you want to take out Kucherov’s anomaly season and use McDavid’s total (which was second best), an average of 111 points. Crosby hasn’t come close to a 111 point average since 2013, and the last time he scored 110 was 2010. He’s turning 33 and I don’t see him generating that type of point total anymore, no way. Even in his 2014 MVP season, he hit 104.

- The Rocket is also difficult because you still have Ovechkin scoring 50 goals, and that’s the cut off from now on because it’s becoming harder for him to win (he won the last 2 by the skin of his teeth) and had to smash 50 this year just to get away from Pasta and Matthews. I don’t see Crosby hitting 50 ever again.

- Hart, maybe in an injured team season, but it’s usually going to the top producers if they make the playoffs. And he has Malkin on his team to take away votes. The 2 MVPs he won we’re when Malkin was a rookie and him missing 22 games. And it also doesn’t help that Malkin goes crazy when Crosby is out

- Lindsay, nope.

- Conn Smythe is the best because they’re still a great team and tough out, and it’s gonna be either Malkin or Crosby

Conn Smythe really depends on the team, and I don't think they're that great, but I can see why it's a popular answer.

Yeah I'm not saying the Art Ross or Hart are easy, but his finishes were:
2014-2015: 3rd (-3 points, -5 games)
2015-2016: 3rd (-21 points, -2 games)
2016-2017: 2nd (-11 points, -7 games)
2017-2018: 10th (-19 points, same games)
2018-2019: 6th (-28 points, -3 games)
2019-2020: injuries

He's definitely been a little lower the last 3 years, but he's still in that top 10 scorers zone. I put Hart first, because I believe that if Crosby wins the Art Ross, he wins the Hart as well. But, he could win the Hart with a top 5 in the Art Ross race, which is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Rocket is by far the least likely to me. Apart from that odd Rocket win in 2016-17, he's most often be outside the top 10 than inside the top 10 since 2010.

 

[Varan]

Conn Smythe really depends on the team, and I don't think they're that great, but I can see why it's a popular answer.

Yeah I'm not saying the Art Ross or Hart are easy, but his finishes were:
2014-2015: 3rd (-3 points, -5 games)
2015-2016: 3rd (-21 points, -2 games)
2016-2017: 2nd (-11 points, -7 games)
2017-2018: 10th (-19 points, same games)
2018-2019: 6th (-28 points, -3 games)
2019-2020: injuries

He's definitely been a little lower the last 3 years, but he's still in that top 10 scorers zone. I put Hart first, because I believe that if Crosby wins the Art Ross, he wins the Hart as well. But, he could win the Hart with a top 5 in the Art Ross race, which is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Rocket is by far the least likely to me. Apart from that odd Rocket win in 2016-17, he's most often be outside the top 10 than inside the top 10 since 2010.

They still have their core guys who I believe have a few more runs left in them, which is why I said they can still be a title favourite. A few moves here and there to bring in younger talent and I see them back in the Finals.

In those last 6 years, Kane has stepped up his game, McDavid arrived, Kuch has improved every single year, Drai has exploded, Pasta came to the scene, MacK and Marchand have stepped up their games. That is too much young talent there aside from Marchand (who is still has many years left) for Crosby to beat.

If you look at this past season, even though it is a short sample size of 17 games, before Crosby's injury, he had 17 points in 17 games on November 9th. He was 13 points back of Pasta for the Ross lead. 13 points. That is insanely hard to overcome.

If you prorate his PPG this past season of 1.14 to the amount of games the Pens played (69), he would have had 79 points. That is 31 points behind Draisaitl.

31 points.

A completely different player with > 2x the lead that Pasta had on Crosby back in November. I didn't even mention his linemate McJesus who was on pace for 107 points when the season ended.

Another problem, is that he wouldn't have even out-scored his own team mate! Malkin was on pace for 93 points back on March 12 had he not missed games, and he would have certainly hit 100+ and made a push for the Ross.

The top-7 scorers were on pace for 100+ and Kane was right there at 98 points.

See the problem here? There is too much competition. The players are too good. The skill is too high. It isn't a knock on Crosby by any means, just that there is a changing of the guard.

HART

In recent years it's going to the top producers but he could win it if Malkin goes down and he carries them. That's the only way I see it happening.

 

[Dominance]

At least one more Hart is definitely within the realm of possibility if Malkin declines and is injured more with age and he puts up good numbers to drag the Penguins into the postseason.

 

[abo9]

They still have their core guys who I believe have a few more runs left in them, which is why I said they can still be a title favourite. A few moves here and there to bring in younger talent and I see them back in the Finals.

In those last 6 years, Kane has stepped up his game, McDavid arrived, Kuch has improved every single year, Drai has exploded, Pasta came to the scene, MacK and Marchand have stepped up their games. That is too much young talent there aside from Marchand (who is still has many years left) for Crosby to beat.

If you look at this past season, even though it is a short sample size of 17 games, before Crosby's injury, he had 17 points in 17 games on November 9th. He was 13 points back of Pasta for the Ross lead. 13 points. That is insanely hard to overcome.

If you prorate his PPG this past season of 1.14 to the amount of games the Pens played (69), he would have had 79 points. That is 31 points behind Draisaitl.

31 points.

A completely different player with > 2x the lead that Pasta had on Crosby back in November. I didn't even mention his linemate McJesus who was on pace for 107 points when the season ended.

Another problem, is that he wouldn't have even out-scored his own team mate! Malkin was on pace for 93 points back on March 12 had he not missed games, and he would have certainly hit 100+ and made a push for the Ross.

The top-7 scorers were on pace for 100+ and Kane was right there at 98 points.

See the problem here? There is too much competition. The players are too good. The skill is too high. It isn't a knock on Crosby by any means, just that there is a changing of the guard.

HART

In recent years it's going to the top producers but he could win it if Malkin goes down and he carries them. That's the only way I see it happening.

All very fair points. But less elite players have had insane surges out of seemingly nowhere (see Marchand). Crosby has played a lot of playoff games during that stretch, it might have taken a toll. I'm not saying that he'll be competing with McDavid every year until retirement, but it takes only 1 season where things fall into place (like Benn's art ross). I can see Crosby cracking the top 10 until he's 37/38 years old actually, barring injuries.

And yeah for the Hart that's how I picture it. And unfortunately for Malkin, I see him being injured as more likely than a Cup win.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Been a hart finalist 5/8 years

 

[67Leafs67]

I'd be surprised, but it is certainly possible. At 33, he is still an elite NHL centre, but seemingly on the decline. Player's aging curves never go completely linear - usually season to season you have up & down years, often based on usage & role, but also just plain luck. So, I could see Sid having another fantastic year in him for sure. Playing on a team as good as Pittsburgh though, and with superstars like McDavid, MacKinnon, etc in the NHL...it will be tough.

Of course if Pittsburgh makes a run, he could very easily win another Conn Smythe. Regular season though? He can be good defensively (18-19 a great example), and since the Selke is a pretty reputation heavy award, I guess he has a shot at making sneaking out one of those at some point as well. I just don't see him capturing an Art Ross, Richard, or Hart kind of trophy at this point though.

It's a shame, because for a player of his calibre, his trophy case seems somewhat empty, mostly due to injuries - realistically he could have (and probably would have, if healthy) won Hart/Ross trophies in 2011, 2012, & 2013.

 

[Peat]

Conn Smythe is the only one I can see as he simply can't stay fit enough over full seasons to put up the necessary numbers, with the added issue that the Pens power play doesn't go through him.

Selke is the next most likely but I can't see them giving him the PK time needed to get it.

 

[Ms Maggie]

His sole concern is the Cup. Understandably.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

His sole concern is the Cup. Understandably.

This. Cups and longevity. The scoring race is a young man's game now and he knows it. The days of players winning Art's in their mid 30's are probably over for good when guys like McDavid are around. And when McDavid hits his 30's and starts losing a step there will be more kids coming in behind him. Maybe the Shane Wright's of the world.

If Sid doesn't win another major trophy it won't matter for his career. His legacy is sealed.

 

[Ms Maggie]

This. Cups and longevity. The scoring race is a young man's game now and he knows it. The days of players winning Art's in their mid 30's are probably over for good when guys like McDavid are around. And when McDavid hits his 30's and starts losing a step there will be more kids coming in behind him. Maybe the Shane Wright's of the world.

If Sid doesn't win another major trophy it won't matter for his career. His legacy is sealed.

Been a Pens fan for decades. Like to think I keep sports in perspective. But I honestly feel incredibly lucky to have had this guy on "my" team for so long. Incredible player. Really lovely man.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

In b4 he wins pmvp this season

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Prediction - His scoring decline continues, Canadian media spins it as "must be that he is focusing on his defensive play" and awards him an undeserved Selke trophy.

Came here to say this.

 

[biturbo19]

He probably should...but the Goal and Points totals awards aren't going to be there for him anymore. And when it comes to the "reputation" award Hart...it feels like the NHL voting dipshits have already completely moved on to "the next generation". So he's hooped there too.

 

[surixon]

I think he wins one more.