Will Datsyuk and Zetterberg ever have their numbers retired?

[theanomaly]

and no other team, that is why teams retire numbers.

someone didnt tell the avs that about bourque. i still laugh over that one.

i think when this all plays out, we will see 40 and not 13 in the rafters. sadly.

 

[BinCookin]

someone didnt tell the avs that about bourque. i still laugh over that one.

i think when this all plays out, we will see 40 and not 13 in the rafters. sadly.

Yes that was dumb. Bourque shouldn't be retired in Colorado. If we did the same thing...

we would have Robitaille and Hull retired in Detroit.. and that is just dumb

I mean congrats we won the cup with them... but retiring numbers is about people thinking

"Gordie Howe, He played for the Wings" (Even though he played for some other teams, He mostly played and got most of his points for the wings)

 

[pdd]

I think retiring of a number has as much to do with team loyalty as it has to do with STATS.

Here is an example:

Yzerman: Is one of the highest scoring red wings of all time.

But he is mostly retired because he was a captain for 20 years, and was on the red wings team for his entire carreer.

Yzerman's jersey was slated for retirement as of Summer 1989. You know, after he put up the highest non-Gretzky/Lemieux point total ever? Mostly retired for his length of captaincy... He's a top ten player of all-time.

 

[Adityase]

Zetterberg and Datsyuk have been the reason why detroit has even made the playoffs since all the guys you mentioned retired. Both have put in over 10 years with the Wings and are the sole reason why Detroit is even 8 seed. You've got to be on crack if you think all those I have in bold should have their # retired ahead of Zetterberg and Datsyuk. There were and will always be ton of players that can easily replace McCarty, Draper, Maltby. No one will ever forget the Russian 5 or the Grind line but put aside the whatever emotional connection you feel for players from the 90s and get real.

No, I was suggesting those other "banners" as a way to honor those players without even considering retiring. I just think Feds and Shanny deserve it more (and I threw in Ozzie for personal reasons). I love Dats and Z, but I think they would have to do more and it's going to be tough as the team and each of them are on the decline.

 

[RedWinger10]

If z keeps his career numbers up and becomes a true leader I think he has a shot. Datsyuk would have to put in more time than I think he is willing to.

 

[DarkReign]

Zetterberg; Yes (due to longevity and early success)

Daytsyuk; No

 

[Flowah]

Zetterberg; Yes (due to longevity and early success)

Daytsyuk; No

I really can't imagine Z getting in and not Datsyuk.

 

[SirKillalot]

Not unless they start taking controll of games again and producing points that gets this team to the Playoffs

 

[BinCookin]

I really can't imagine Z getting in and not Datsyuk.

I agree.

It is either both or neither

 

[hdw]

I really can't imagine Z getting in and not Datsyuk.

Hmm, I'm on this train too.

They're still so much the "Euro Twins" even in my swedish mind.

But things will get hairy if they nab another cup

 

[DarkReign]

I really can't imagine Z getting in and not Datsyuk.

Not unless they start taking controll of games again and producing points that gets this team to the Playoffs

I agree.

It is either both or neither

Hmm, I'm on this train too.

They're still so much the "Euro Twins" even in my swedish mind.

But things will get hairy if they nab another cup

Datsyuk will have played for 12 years as a Wing.

Zetterberg is tracking to play 20 years as a Wing, 8 of which will be spent as Captain of the team.

If Z wins a Cup without Datsyuk, seal the deal.

 

[SoupGuru]

I don't think either one gets their numbers retired. Zetterberg isn't legendary enough. He might shock me and be an incredible producer until the end of his contract but I think he's on the decline. Datsyuk has the better chance if sticks around for as long as Zetterberg but I doubt he will.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

If Zetterberg or Datsyuk played in the 80s or early 90s, they'd put up 120 points.

Some of you people just don't understand a) the way scoring has changed and b) the way the Red Wings system reduces scoring even more

Datsyuk
13 14th
12 31st (missed 12 games)
11 51st (missed 26 games)
10 27th
9 4th
8 4th
7 17th
6 18th
4 23rd
3 93rd
2 186th



Fedorov (DETROIT ONLY
3 12th
2 28th
1 48th
0 46th
9 31st
8 HOLDOUT
7 44th
6 10th
5 16th
4 2nd
3 36th
2 22nd
1 28th

If you ask me, there's not a big difference between the two.
Fedorov got started earlier, was a little healthier, and had a slightly higher peak.

Both were elite two-way centers, perhaps the best defensive centers of their eras, even as they were among the most talented and productive centers of their time.

 

[SoupGuru]

(2013 - 1926) / 6 = 14.5
The Wings retire a number every 14.5 years.

(2014 - 1926) / 7 = 12.6
When they retire Lidstrom's number next year, the Wings bring that to once every 12.6 years.

Not trying to make any sort of point... just thought it was interesting. The Canadiens retire a number every 5.1 years, in case you were wondering.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

(2013 - 1926) / 6 = 14.5
The Wings retire a number every 14.5 years.

(2014 - 1926) / 7 = 12.6
When they retire Lidstrom's number next year, the Wings bring that to once every 12.6 years.

Not trying to make any sort of point... just thought it was interesting. The Canadiens retire a number every 5.1 years, in case you were wondering.

I think on almost any other franchise these two would have their number retired. Really a case can be made that Kelly, Fedorov, Shanahan and Osgood probably get their numbers put up on virtually any other franchise if they do what they did here somewhere else. But in a way that makes it a very special honor, something I am proud of as a Wings fan. It also makes it really hard to gauge exactly how they will handle this.

 

[Flowah]

Datsyuk will have played for 12 years as a Wing.

Zetterberg is tracking to play 20 years as a Wing, 8 of which will be spent as Captain of the team.

If Z wins a Cup without Datsyuk, seal the deal.

I mean, that'd be assuming that he finishes out his contract. That would put him at... 40? Datsyuk's a little older so he misses a couple years. They both hit the lockouts. 12 years is a long time. I would like, but do not need, any more years for him to have proven himself a life long Red Wing through and through.

I'm unsure at this point as to whether he should be retired. I recognize just how hard it is for you to get that with the Wings, looking at the people who've had it and who haven't. But I hope when that decision is discussed, his length of service isn't a factor. He put in his time. Lockouts and a late start cut it short, and also affected his numbers. Even though he's still.... 6th all time? Right?

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Longevity as a major criteria is dumb.

It isn't like Datsyuk played 5 or 7 years. He's spent virtually his entire career here.

This notion that him sticking around for 2 or 3 more 60-70 point seasons would make his case stronger is ludicrous.

And besides, as I've shown, as of right now, several Wings with retired numbers played elsewhere.

 

[TheBeastman]

They have to both make it. First off assuming Datsyuk decides to go to Russia after next year (although I think he’ll give the Wings at least 1-2 more years after) He will end up within the top 12 in all time games played for the wings which isn’t the best, but he lost 116 games to the lockouts which would have put him at number 8 all time which could still happen if he stays longer. Point-wise he’s 6th all-time for the wings and pending how much longer he stays could unseat Federov for #5, and while it’s not the best measurement of performance he is #3 all-time for plus-minus. Take that and throw in the fact that he is the best 2-way forward of his generation and one of the best overall players in the game, 2 stanley cups, numerous selke and lady byng wins, has only worn the winged wheel, one of the most respected players in the game and there’s no question he belongs.

Zetterberg is a much simpler case as he similarly will probably end up below only Howe, Lidstrom, Delvecchio and Yzerman in games played, ranked 4th all-time in points assuming a reasonable drop-off, and be the third longest tenured Captain in red wings history behind only Yzerman and Delvecchio (assuming he plays until he’s 38 at least)

A couple other things… I can see the argument for Federov, but he may still make it when he does officially retire. I think there is still a bit of bitterness towards the way he left. Once all that dies down though, who knows. The Shanahan talk has to stop though. He was a great player and significant for what he provided in those cup runs, but he played more time away from us then with us, and both Z and Pav have already contributed more statistically then he did over a similar timeframe and there’s more to come.

 

[RedWingsForPresident]

Datsyuk is 100% getting retired. I think Zetterberg will end up getting retired as well. Can't believe we haven't honored #26 for Jiri Hudler yet. (Sarcasm)

 

[pdd]

Datsyuk, Z and Fedorov should all have their numbers retired. Get out of here with Shanahan, Ozzie, Maltby, Draper, McCarty, Probert, Kocur.

Ozzie is the second-greatest goaltender in franchise history after Terry Sawchuk, who is in the conversation for best goalie ever. Osgood broke many of Sawchuk's records and had it not been for some bad luck with injuries and a ridiculously sweet deal the Wings were basically offered on Dominik Hasek, Osgood might have won Cups in 1999 and 2002, and would have lasted longer at a higher level.

I really can't imagine Z getting in and not Datsyuk.

I agree.

It is either both or neither

Hmm, I'm on this train too.

They're still so much the "Euro Twins" even in my swedish mind.

But things will get hairy if they nab another cup

Why is this a frame of mind? While they have comparable careers right now, Zetterberg is more likely to play longer. Zetterberg has led the team in scoring the last three seasons, two of which Datsyuk spent significant time injured. Zetterberg is likely to play many more seasons in the future than Datsyuk (whether due to Datsyuk leaving for Russia or retiring) so he will be the more impactful player in his career on the ice. He has been more versatile, and he is also the team captain and has been a team leader from early on.

Like the Sedins, they aren't the same player. You can't say "well, it's both or neither" as an absolute. Daniel Sedin is a better player than Henrik Sedin, but people often lump them together on lists as one entry, and are loathe to separate them by putting any players between the two. As if instead of simply being identical twins, they're conjoined twins.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Ozzie is the second-greatest goaltender in franchise history after Terry Sawchuk, who is in the conversation for best goalie ever. Osgood broke many of Sawchuk's records and had it not been for some bad luck with injuries and a ridiculously sweet deal the Wings were basically offered on Dominik Hasek, Osgood might have won Cups in 1999 and 2002, and would have lasted longer at a higher level.





Why is this a frame of mind? While they have comparable careers right now, Zetterberg is more likely to play longer. Zetterberg has led the team in scoring the last three seasons, two of which Datsyuk spent significant time injured. Zetterberg is likely to play many more seasons in the future than Datsyuk (whether due to Datsyuk leaving for Russia or retiring) so he will be the more impactful player in his career on the ice. He has been more versatile, and he is also the team captain and has been a team leader from early on.

Like the Sedins, they aren't the same player. You can't say "well, it's both or neither" as an absolute. Daniel Sedin is a better player than Henrik Sedin, but people often lump them together on lists as one entry, and are loathe to separate them by putting any players between the two. As if instead of simply being identical twins, they're conjoined twins.

Right.
Well, Pavel is cleary the better better player nearly all of his time here.

But Zetterberg will probably play longer.

So it's a wash.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Right.
Well, Pavel is cleary the better better player nearly all of his time here.

But Zetterberg will probably play longer.

So it's a wash.

Except for in the playoffs, where Zetterberg has an advantage, especially in goal scoring.

 

[Syckle78]

I think they both should go up. Yzerman/Lidstrom /Zetterberg/Datsyuk it's not too much for a twenty five year era of excellence. I left out Fedorov on purpose because we don't know how that relationship break is going to resolve.

 

[hdw]

Why is this a frame of mind? While they have comparable careers right now, Zetterberg is more likely to play longer.

The key for me is the exactly "more likely to".

I base my judgement on what I have seen and not on any prediction of what might come.

For all we know Z can be out for season with a bad back and then forced to retire while Pavel might end up carrying the team for the next 5-6 years.

As it looks right now, then neither or both will have their numbers retired.

And I leaning towards neither.

 

[odin1981]

If osgood ever gets his number retired by the redwings it will be a diservice to the honor bestowed on red wing retiree's. He was never a dominant generational type player. Never. he played on great teams that allowed him to reach his win total. He didn't earn them, much like why he was never nominated for a vezina.

Osgood was never dominant he was however "good". But the numbers on our rafters all were dominant. If he gets a statue or something honoring him at the new stadium fine. But he doesn't deserve the high honor of jersey retirement in regards to this team.

In all honesty compared to the numbers up there right now (counting lidstrom among them atm damn lockout) both Z and Dats are short right now as much as I hate to say it. Now if both win 1 more cup before they retire I would say they then cross the threshold into getting theirs up there.

Dats pains me the most to say this. I absolutely love watching him play and when he goes it will be very painful to watch this team after for a fair amount of time until we are blessed with another generational talent. But I hate to admit he needs at least one possibly two of these following 3 awards to warrant it before he goes back to Russia : cup, conn smythe, or hart.

I know quite a few people both in rl and on this board hate how inclusive red wing # retiree's are. But honestly I love that you have to have one hell of a distinction to get put up on the rafters in this organization. Every # on our rafters means something. Quite possibly 1-5 who are not as well.

But can you look across the league and honestly say that every team that has jersey's retired that their our a few that shouldn't. Even Toronto and Montreal imho are guilty of this as well. And that to me is a great pride with our teams organization in that only the best of the best get put up in our stadium. It means more to be up in our rafters than it does to be in the hall of score very good/fame. And personally to me that is a measure of great pride and respect given to our #'s on the rafters.