Will Auston Matthews break Rick Vaive's record this season?

[BlueBaron]

Yes. I’ll wait for your list of players who didn’t win multiple Rockets and were amongst the greatest goal scorers of all time.
If he’s the greatest of this generation he will win multiple Rockets. There has never been a generational goal scorer who missed by one goal every year. It just doesn’t happen. You guys are going to ridiculous lengths to make excuses. If he wants to join the greats he needs to sore the most goals in a few seasons. If he doesn’t then yes he can still be a very good deal scorer. Just keep the generational stuff out of it. And for sure enjoy him. He’s a very good player.

Making excuses for what? For having the highest goal rate since he entered the league? That he isn't in the top 10 all time yet? Getting scary dude. You might be paying a little too much attention to the Leafs

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Making excuses for what? For having the highest goal rate since he entered the league? That he isn't in the top 10 all time yet? Getting scary dude. You might be paying a little too much attention to the Leafs

Nope. I’m still waiting for your list of generational goal scorers who didn’t win multiple Rockets.
Here’s what you said:
“I'm not sure why people think Richard trophies are required to be among the greatest all time.”

Typical tactic that when you lose an argument you attack the poster rather than just admitting you were wrong.
Post your list. We have over a century of NHL players for you to choose from.

 

[BlueBaron]

Nope. I’m still waiting for your list of generational goal scorers who didn’t win multiple Rockets.
Here’s what you said:
“I'm not sure why people think Richard trophies are required to be among the greatest all time.”

Typical tactic that when you lose an argument you attack the poster rather than just admitting you were wrong.
Post your list. We have over a century of NHL players for you to choose from.

Do you understand the difference between theory and practice? Of course they have Richards, I said it was likely, it is also theoretically possible to do it without winning any. I admit it would be odd but it is possible. People are making it sound like Cup wins to get in the HHOF.

Seriously though, I don't want to argue with you over this foolishness. You are taking my post way too seriously.

Feel free to tell yourself you won our "argument". Whatever you think it was.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Do you understand the difference between theory and practice? Of course they have Richards, I said it was likely, it is also theoretically possible to do it without winning any. I admit it would be odd but it is possible. People are making it sound like Cup wins to get in the HHOF.

Seriously though, I don't want to argue with you over this foolishness. You are taking my post way too seriously.

Lol! Take the L and move on. There is not a single generational goal scorer in history who has not won multiple Rockets.
You were wrong and we both know it. If it makes you feel better to strike out and say I’m taking it too seriously or I don’t like the Leafs then good for you!


Unlike some of you, I’m actually fairly confident that Matthews will win a Rocket or two. I’m not convinced that he will be up with the generational guys I listed earlier but he could get there. Time will tell. But then I don’t throw the word generational around as lightly as a lot of posters do because I’ve followed hockey quite a while and think the term actually means something. A lot of younger fans equate the term with really good instead of best of his generation.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Post a list of all the generational goal scorers who didn’t win multiple Rockets.

The chance of Matthews not winning multiple rockets is astronomically low, but no, rockets have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of goal scorer somebody is.

 

[BlueBaron]

Lol! Take the L and move on. There is not a single generational goal scorer in history who has not won multiple Rockets.
You were wrong and we both know it. If it makes you feel better to strike out and say I’m taking it too seriously or I don’t like the Leafs then good for you!

So you deny it is theoretically possible?

Ok. You win.

 

[dukeofjive]

Mathews is the best ever goal scorer to never lead the league in goals.

 

[BlueBaron]

The chance of Matthews not winning multiple rockets is astronomically low, but no, rockets have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of goal scorer somebody is.

He doesn't seem to get that something can be theoretically possible and yet never have happened.

 

[filinski77]

I'm not sure why people think Richard trophies are required to be among the greatest all time. Obviously the two are likely to go hand in hand but it seems like you guys don't get that it's about total goals. He could be 1 goal short on a Richard every year but still have a higher career total than all his peers and still pass all time greats.

The main thing is keeping up his current pace (matching Ovies career pace I believe?) and he stays healthy.

Still, it's way too early for that kind of talk. I'm just going to enjoy him now and let the future take care of itself.

After first career 261 games (what Matthews is at right now):
Ovi = 171 goals
Matthews = 145 goals

Not to mention that most elite goalscorers peak by 22ish anyways (as far as strict goalscoring numbers go - not scoring finishes), Matthews would have to really ramp it up to get ahead enough to have a fighting chance at Ovechkins 27-34 year old seasons, where most goalscorers fall off from elite-status around.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The chance of Matthews not winning multiple rockets is astronomically low, but no, rockets have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of goal scorer somebody is.

Yeah, I am sure that you have a program for every Leaf player that screens out stats that favour the Leafs and disregards the rest.
The chances of the greatest goal scorer of his generation never leading the NHL in goals for a single season is so astronomically low as to be effectively nil.
Now the chances of Matthews never reaching generational status and just joining the great goal scorers like Kurri etc is much much higher.
The word generational gets thrown around much too freely by some younger fans who don’t know the history of this great sport and the players who came before.
Let’s wait until he at least wins a Rocket or two before posting that type of nonsense.

 

[BlueBaron]

After first career 261 games (what Matthews is at right now):
Ovi = 171 goals
Matthews = 145 goals

Not to mention that most elite goalscorers peak by 22ish anyways (as far as strict goalscoring numbers go - not scoring finishes), Matthews would have to really ramp it up to get ahead enough to have a fighting chance at Ovechkins 27-34 year old seasons, where most goalscorers fall off from elite-status around.

Yeah the number I site is Ovies career average, he started much stronger as you say.

I'm really not stressed about Ovechkin or Richards. I'm more concerned about Cups and enjoying his play. As I said the future will sort itself out, I don't really get the fixation on trying to make every young guy a Hall of Famer before his ELC is done. Enjoy the journey.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

He doesn't seem to get that something can be theoretically possible and yet never have happened.

Sure. I mean theoretically you could be an alien posting from another galaxy and theoretically the greatest goal scorer of his generation could never lead the league in scoring for a single season.

 

[BlueBaron]

Sure. I mean theoretically you could be an alien posting from another galaxy and theoretically the greatest goal scorer of his generation could never lead the league in scoring for a single season.

You're making progress!

 

[Bumpus]

So Auston Matthews is on fire right now with 34 goals in just 47 games. That's a 59 goal pace over a full 82 game season. So he's basically easilly on pace to break Rick Vaive's record right now. But will Auston Matthews be able to pull it off, or will he slow down and fall short in the end. 55 goals is a pretty tall order after all. Only Cheechoo, Ovechkin and Stamkos has been able to score 55 or more since the 2004-05 lockout.

Hmmm ...

Perhaps you could Leafsplain it for us?

 

[LegendaryNumber5]

Making excuses for what? For having the highest goal rate since he entered the league? That he isn't in the top 10 all time yet? Getting scary dude. You might be paying a little too much attention to the Leafs

Not entirely true..

"Come at the king, you best not miss"
- Ovi Probably

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah, I am sure that you have a program for every Leaf player that screens out stats that favour the Leafs and disregards the rest.

No, I have the exact same stats for everybody, and I use them because they include context and are more accurate, not because of how the Leaf players do. The Leaf players do well in them because they are some of the best players in the league. I'm not sure why you think the Leaf players are the only players in history to do that well over significant samples and not be a top player.

The chances of the greatest goal scorer of his generation never leading the NHL in goals for a single season is so astronomically low as to be effectively nil.

Maybe, but effectively nil isn't nil, so there is a chance. Using rockets to determine quality of goal scorer is a horribly inaccurate method, because you gain very little overall information from number of rocket wins.

Now the chances of Matthews never reaching generational status and just joining the great goal scorers like Kurri etc is much much higher.

Not really. Continuation of his current path, which is a generational path, is much more likely.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yes. I’ll wait for your list of players who didn’t win multiple Rockets and were amongst the greatest goal scorers of all time.
If he’s the greatest of this generation he will win multiple Rockets. There has never been a generational goal scorer who missed by one goal every year. It just doesn’t happen. You guys are going to ridiculous lengths to make excuses. If he wants to join the greats he needs to sore the most goals in a few seasons. If he doesn’t then yes he can still be a very good deal scorer. Just keep the generational stuff out of it. And for sure enjoy him. He’s a very good player.

He's in no way a generational player or a generational goal scorer, however I read a lot of comments on here at how great of a season Leon Draisaitl had last year since he edned up with 50 goals, however he was 1 short of the Rocket since Ovechkin won it with 51 goals.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

No, I have the exact same stats for everybody, and I use them because they include context and are more accurate, not because of how the Leaf players do. The Leaf players do well in them because they are some of the best players in the league. I'm not sure why you think the Leaf players are the only players in history to do that well over significant samples and not be a top player.


Maybe, but effectively nil isn't nil, so there is a chance. Using rockets to determine quality of goal scorer is a horribly inaccurate method, because you gain very little overall information from number of rocket wins.


Not really. Continuation of his current path, which is a generational path, is much more likely.

No. You only post stats that support the Leafs. In every single one of your posts.
According to your ‘analysis’ they have had the best players in the league and the best team in the league for as long as I’ve been on this board.
If you were truly interested in ‘context’ then you would post stats that both support and work against your team and it’s players. Cherry picking is the opposite of providing context.
The Leafs do have a few great players. As do a lot of other teams, some of which are currently near the top of the standings and playing much better than the Leafs. There is a lot of great young talent in the NHL.
Generational indeed!
I’ll leave you to your stats.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No. You only post stats that support the Leafs. In every single one of your posts.

I use the same stat in all of my posts, for reasons I have explained and defended repeatedly, and the Leafs look good in them because they are some of the best players in the game.

According to your ‘analysis’ they have had the best players in the league and the best team in the league for as long as I’ve been on this board.

What? I've been here one year...

If you were truly interested in ‘context’ then you would post stats that both support and work against your team and it’s players. Cherry picking is the opposite of providing context.

It is not "cherry picking" to consistently use the same stats for everyone that include critical context over stats that ignore critical context. You don't go after everybody else using points as their basis, yet you have so much issue with me using a more accurate stat. No, I don't need to invent things wrong with my players just because you can't stand a Leaf being among the best in the game.

 

[Mugzy97]

poll result with “I don’t know who this is” as the #1 answer proves you and OP wrong.

I don’t understand why people would click on the title if you don’t know who the guy in the title is. Maybe just nothing better to do?

 

[Karl Eriksson]

I don’t understand why people would click on the title if you don’t know who the guy in the title is. Maybe just nothing better to do?

Im probably not the only one who scans almost every OP on mains. This one just happened to be a big miss on the mains since many don’t know the subject of the discussion.

 

[BlueBaron]

Not entirely true..

"Come at the king, you best not miss"
- Ovi Probably

My mistake, it's even strength goals he has lead in.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

If he’s the greatest of this generation he will win multiple Rockets.

He should be afforded even half the amount of PP time as other rocket winners to compare rockets lol

 

[WetcoastOrca]

He should be afforded even half the amount of PP time as other rocket winners to compare rockets lol

That’s ok. He’ll have a trophy case of Most Goals Per 60 Minutes at Even Strength to fall back on. No one can take that away from him.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He’s not catching OV and Bobby Hull for most rockets at 8,
Bobby might of had more had he not been the poster boy for the WHL.
Bobby had 610 goals in the NHL by 30 or 31 then another 300 plus in the WHA.