GDT: Wild @ Avs

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Pens, Caps, Blues, Bruins...possibly Tampa. It's not true that all windows are short. We arent CBJ.

All 4 of Tampa, St. Louis, Washington, and the Bruins went through re-tooling periods recently before becoming contenders again. All 4 had a window, failed to win the cup, had to retool for a couple years and missed the playoffs before coming back as contenders again.

Only the Pens have managed to maintain being a powerhouse in the league for an extended period of time. And even the Pens you could certainly make the argument that they went through a retool for a couple of years as well while they retooled from having to trade Staal and losing Gonchar. But Crosby and Malkin did enough to keep them in the playoffs despite being 1st or 2nd round exits 3 years in a row.


No team in the league aside from Pittsburgh has had a true window last more then ~5 years. Pittsburgh has done so because they had the two best player in the NHL for the last decade essentially.

Hopefully, the Avs management dont share the same mindset as what apparently most of you here on HF share, which is that we can have our window last 5+ years despite all other teams besides Pittsburgh failing to do so either.

It's that mindset of trying to prolong a window, that has led Winnipeg to the state they are in now. They had a 2-3 year shot at winning it all and instead of being aggressive and making the necessary moves to put that roster over the top they were patient and now that window is pretty much shut again.


We've got 4 years right now before Mack gets a 10M pay raise, to use that gift of a contract to win a cup. After that we are going to have to retool for a couple of years and quite frankly with our drafting record I wouldn't put much faith in a successful retool like what Tampa and Boston were able to do.

 

[Balthazar]

All 4 of Tampa, St. Louis, Washington, and the Bruins went through re-tooling periods recently before becoming contenders again. All 4 had a window, failed to win the cup, had to retool for a couple years and missed the playoffs before coming back as contenders again.

Only the Pens have managed to maintain being a powerhouse in the league for an extended period of time. And even the Pens you could certainly make the argument that they went through a retool for a couple of years as well while they retooled from having to trade Staal and losing Gonchar. But Crosby and Malkin did enough to keep them in the playoffs despite being 1st or 2nd round exits 3 years in a row.


No team in the league aside from Pittsburgh has had a true window last more then ~5 years. Pittsburgh has done so because they had the two best player in the NHL for the last decade essentially.

Hopefully, the Avs management dont share the same mindset as what apparently most of you here on HF share, which is that we can have our window last 5+ years despite all other teams besides Pittsburgh failing to do so either.

It's that mindset of trying to prolong a window, that has led Winnipeg to the state they are in now. They had a 2-3 year shot at winning it all and instead of being aggressive and making the necessary moves to put that roster over the top they were patient and now that window is pretty much shut again.


We've got 4 years right now before Mack gets a 10M pay raise, to use that gift of a contract to win a cup. After that we are going to have to retool for a couple of years and quite frankly with our drafting record I wouldn't put much faith in a successful retool like what Tampa and Boston were able to do.

Management isn't going to put itself in a position to not be able to keep Makar during his prime because they signed an aging Taylor Hall for 7 years. You're living in dreamland if you think that's even a remote possibility. They just proved it with Barrie and Rants: they want to keep the window open for long and don't want to commit to large amount of money that will bite them in the ass down the road.

We'll be able to keep a good chunk of our core even after Mack re-ups, it won't be the end of the world. If they can keep Mack, Rants, Makar and Girard we're in business.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Timmins gets sent down when Cole is healthy and ready to play.

Bednar making it very obvious he doesn't trust him.

 

[Balthazar]

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Timmins gets sent down when Cole is healthy and ready to play.

Bednar making it very obvious he doesn't trust him.

We all love Timmins a lot but objectively we've seen in the last 2 games that he can use some time in the AHL (understandably). I won't mind if they send him down.

Like I said earlier in the thread our 3rd pairing will be Cole and Barbs before long.

 

[The Kingslayer]

LOL leafs fans already comparing stats between Kadri and Kerfoot and declaring themselves winners xD

Shit like that is why people hate leaf fans.

 

[Raucherhusten]

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Timmins gets sent down when Cole is healthy and ready to play.

Bednar making it very obvious he doesn't trust him.

We all love Timmins a lot but objectively we've seen in the last 2 games that he can use some time in the AHL (understandably). I won't mind if they send him down.

Like I said earlier in the thread our 3rd pairing will be Cole and Barbs before long.

It won't be Timmins who's going down, it will be (most likely) Barberio.

And Bednar not playing Timmins much in the 3rd's has nothing to do with trust but with protecting a kid that hasn't played a game of hockey for 18 straight month. We have other guys for those high pressure situations.

Cole/Timmins will be our 3rd pairing going forward as long as nothing unexpected happens and Conor completely loses it. And for the love of me i can't see it.

 

[dahrougem2]

We all love Timmins a lot but objectively we've seen in the last 2 games that he can use some time in the AHL (understandably). I won't mind if they send him down.

Like I said earlier in the thread our 3rd pairing will be Cole and Barbs before long.

Given what we've seen out of Graves thus far and Bednar's use for him, there's no chance in hell Mark Barberio supplants him. And that's if Barberio can even stay healthy.

It won't be Timmins who's going down, it will be (most likely) Barberio.

And Bednar not playing Timmins much in the 3rd's has nothing to do with trust but with protecting a kid that hasn't played a game of hockey for 18 straight month. We have other guys for those high pressure situations.

Cole/Timmins will be our 3rd pairing going forward as long as nothing unexpected happens and Conor completely loses it. And for the love of me i can't see it.

It's not about high pressure. The kid is getting 10 minutes per night. That's not how you develop young defensemen, that's how you ruin them.

It's better for Timmins if he goes down and plays 21-23 minutes per night in the AHL. We have the depth where we can afford to let him play there for an entire season.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Given what we've seen out of Graves thus far and Bednar's use for him, there's no chance in hell Mark Barberio supplants him. And that's if Barberio can even stay healthy.


It's not about high pressure. The kid is getting 10 minutes per night. That's not how you develop young defensemen, that's how you ruin them.

It's better for Timmins if he goes down and plays 21-23 minutes per night in the AHL. We have the depth where we can afford to let him play there for an entire season.

Long term its prolly whats best for Timmins anyways. I worry about the lawless AHL sometimes when it comes to Timmins but yah I rather he play 20+ minutes in the AHL than 10 mins or less in the NHL.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Given what we've seen out of Graves thus far and Bednar's use for him, there's no chance in hell Mark Barberio supplants him. And that's if Barberio can even stay healthy.


It's not about high pressure. The kid is getting 10 minutes per night. That's not how you develop young defensemen, that's how you ruin them.

It's better for Timmins if he goes down and plays 21-23 minutes per night in the AHL. We have the depth where we can afford to let him play there for an entire season.

2 games man, and 2 close ones as well. Girard started that way too and then he started to get more and more minutes and by the end of the season he was a much better player. Timmins will most likely get a similar treatment and he (and the Avs) will benefit from that in the long run.

Come again if by the end of November he still gets benched in the 3rd's because "he's not there yet" - because then you might be on to something. Right now you're not.

 

[dahrougem2]

2 games man, and 2 close ones as well. Girard started that way too and then he started to get more and more minutes and by the end of the season he was a much better player. Timmins will most likely get a similar treatment and he (and the Avs) will benefit from that in the long run.

Come again if by the end of November he still gets benched in the 3rd's because "he's not there yet" - because then you might be on to something. Right now you're not.

There's a one glaring difference in your argument: Samuel Girard didn't have both Cale Makar and Erik Johnson to bypass on the left side in order to gain more minutes.

I have confidence in Timmins, but as of now he's the odd man out once Ian Cole returns because Jared Bednar seems to really, really trust Ryan Graves as evidenced by his PK time and being thrown out there to defend a lead late in games.

Coaches like safe. They like trust worthy. Not saying Timmins isn't, but right now to Bednar he probably sees Graves as more trustworthy, so why would he come out of the lineup in favour of Timmins? Cole is close to being ready, I don't see how Timmins doesn't come out unless Graves plays like a sack of **** for the next few games.

 

[Raucherhusten]

There's a one glaring difference in your argument: Samuel Girard didn't have both Cale Makar and Erik Johnson to bypass on the left side in order to gain more minutes.

I have confidence in Timmins, but as of now he's the odd man out once Ian Cole returns because Jared Bednar seems to really, really trust Ryan Graves as evidenced by his PK time and being thrown out there to defend a lead late in games.

Coaches like safe. They like trust worthy. Not saying Timmins isn't, but right now to Bednar he probably sees Graves as more trustworthy, so why would he come out of the lineup in favour of Timmins? Cole is close to being ready, I don't see how Timmins doesn't come out unless Graves plays like a sack of **** for the next few games.

While you're not wrong the "safe" option for Bednar is just play Barberio. Or Connaugten. But he prefers Timmins. And rightfully so. Sure, when Cole returns that might change but from my understanding what better way how to learn "to do" NHL than to pair him with a vet like Cole? Also, as soon as Cole returns he'll be our Top Pk'er - so not much room for Graves to shine anymore i guess.

Anyway, i always find it funny when ppl try to argue - after TWO freakin games - that a prospect is better suited in the minors because he gets "Big Minutes" there and completely ignore that playing in the big league with star players (and because of that way better competition) could benefit them even more.

Give him a month or two before you judge him. He is here to stay.

 

[CobraAcesS]

There's a one glaring difference in your argument: Samuel Girard didn't have both Cale Makar and Erik Johnson to bypass on the left side in order to gain more minutes.

I have confidence in Timmins, but as of now he's the odd man out once Ian Cole returns because Jared Bednar seems to really, really trust Ryan Graves as evidenced by his PK time and being thrown out there to defend a lead late in games.

Coaches like safe. They like trust worthy. Not saying Timmins isn't, but right now to Bednar he probably sees Graves as more trustworthy, so why would he come out of the lineup in favour of Timmins? Cole is close to being ready, I don't see how Timmins doesn't come out unless Graves plays like a sack of **** for the next few games.

Because Timmins is right handed!!

It will actually not likely be an easy choice. Timmins brings puck moving ability to that bottom pair, and having that is important for the way the team plays.

Graves and Cole are a direct swap and play a similar role. I don't think Cole is that close actually. Every time they ask they say the timeline hasn't changed.

The funny part is by the time he comes back we may not be icing the best lineup by playing him.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Because Timmins is right handed!!

It will actually not likely be an easy choice. Timmins brings puck moving ability to that bottom pair, and having that is important for the way the team plays.

Graves and Cole are a direct swap and play a similar role. I don't think Cole is that close actually. Every time they ask they say the timeline hasn't changed.

The funny part is by the time he comes back we may not be icing the best lineup by playing him.

Isn't Cole already in "full practice" mode. Still in red probably but he shouldn't be that far off. I actually expect him to make his return during our "Roadtrip to Hell" after our next home games.

 

[21]

I feel we have to stay classy and wishing Kerfoot the best.

Big OT warning: It's not easy trying to be a hockey expert, that's for sure, players getting stuck in roles because of a number of reasons. Strong competition, sometimes injuries, the coach, teammates and linemates playing a huge role as well, difficulties to North American style of hockey (for Europeans/Russians), some players are simply very young...

It's like work, sometimes it happens a person being promoted to a bigger role and you watch this person grow in front of your own eyes, adjusting to the new situation.

 

[Freudian]

I guess it's natural with being without NHL hockey for months that we get a bit carried away, but Avs don't need to make big changes right now. There are so many new players on the team, so they just need to be patient and see how things play out. Even those players that's had a weak start might have a decent season eventually.

If there are big needs come December, perhaps Sakic should look at it but right now we just need to see if the lines find chemistry. The first and fourth line seems perfectly fine so it's mostly a matter of getting the middle six right. The defense is a bit off as well, with Makar playing some shifts on the left side and Timmins finding his stride. Luckily EJ seems fine, so he can play big minutes on the PK.

 

[Raucherhusten]

It won't be Timmins who's going down
Cole/Timmins will be our 3rd pairing going forward as long as nothing unexpected happens and Conor completely loses it. And for the love of me i can't see it.

Give him a month or two before you judge him. He is here to stay.

That didn't aged well

 

[CobraAcesS]

Isn't Cole already in "full practice" mode. Still in red probably but he shouldn't be that far off. I actually expect him to make his return during our "Roadtrip to Hell" after our next home games.

Yeah sounds like it actually.