Why trading Malkin might be beneficial for the Penguins
- Thread starter Get North
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KingsFan7824
Registered User
Easier said than done of course. Who wants to be the GM that traded Malkin for pieces that maybe don't end up to be as good for the team? I don't know if there's a GM in the league that would've traded Malkin 3 years ago. Nobody is going to be thinking well, in 3 years, we'll be deeper because of it. These are guys wanting to keep their job as GM, even though the guy that didn't trade Malkin 3 years ago is now no longer GM of the Penguins.
Moorpheus*
|GERMAN/IDEALISM\
- Apr 14, 2015
- 922
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Malking is in his prime, Leafs have players that still need 2-4 years to come into their prime (if not more), not only that but they are rebuilding, doesn't make any sense for them.
Pitt has been underperforming the last few years, no way you can have an A1 dman, 2 of the best players in the game, a solid goaltender and be getting outed so early in the playoffs.
Changing the coach hasn't worked, tweeking smaller pieces hasn't worked (Staal, Neal), time for a big shakeup.
Gretzky got traded, we all know what Malkin is worth. I'm sure out of 29 other teams, everyone is interested, but there would be 5-10 that could put together a substantial offer.
There are many interested offers that could be floated, but the big thing is that as I said above, Pitt has gone flat and small or medium (firing their coach and GM) haven't helped. If you have the caliber of team that Pitts has and the pieces are there, I think the crazier thing is to continually stay put and hope for the best.
They haven´t been living up to potential. But the few adjustmenst made before this season actually made them a great team. As long as they were healthy. October-november they were looking great. A lot off posters here can say I am one of those who often call Crosby overrated (historically), but he is still the greatest player in the game. And he really never came back to his level of play since the mumps. And that´s just the top off the iceberg. Hornqvist level off play didn´t reach the same level off play that before the injuri. Maatta only played 20 games. Letang was out for the big push. Malkin, a top 5 player at least in the world, is obviosly injuried. In there top 20 point getters only 7 played more than 70 games.
For me, I hope they don´t panic alá Washington a few years back. That team was a year where everything was going right from winning the Cup. So is Pittsburgh. And I´m not even a fan of these Pittsburgh teams (was one of my favourite teams during the Lemieux and then Jagr era...).
The only thing that would panick me as a Penguin is if Letangs injurie is worse than it seems. He is an unique player that means more than many think to both Crosby, Malkin and Peenguins offense. It often starts with him. If so, a solution in the back end is needed. And the closest to hitting the market is Green. And he ain´t what he used to be. The other big guns of the once so "great" UFA class off 2015 is almost all signed.
I agree with what you are saying but let's not get carried away. Neal, Kunitz (up to 2013) and even Dupuis are all solid top line players (and yes I'm fully aware Dupuis is not exactly skilled but he is effective enough otherwise). Not great, but solid. And Hossa is not just legit, he is as elite as it gets.
The real problem is that in play-offs they did not play even with those wingers regularly enough ...
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in the Flood
It's nice that so many PHI, WAS and DET fans are concerned enough about the future of the Pens that they've figured out how to make them better.
pld459666
Registered User
general question.
Do the folks that post here completely ignore significant factors that affect value?
Factors such as:
Injury History. - Malkin has missed between 15-20 games the last 2 years. That average stabilizes at close to 20 if you extend that to the last 6 years.
Geno has missed an average of 19 games per season over the last 6 years. Or 23% of the season.
Cap Consideration - Malkin alone takes up 13.5% of a teams total cap space. Again, this is while playing less than 80% of his teams games
Opportunity Cost - What is it gonna take to acquire a player that will surely throw a teams depth chart out of whack.
No one is going to be doing the Pens any favors. Not insinuating that the Pens will give him up for a song, but no one is going to run knocking on their door offering up four young cheap cost controlled assets just to burden themselves with that contract (9.5 for 7 more years) and no depth.
Do the folks that post here completely ignore significant factors that affect value?
Factors such as:
Injury History. - Malkin has missed between 15-20 games the last 2 years. That average stabilizes at close to 20 if you extend that to the last 6 years.
Geno has missed an average of 19 games per season over the last 6 years. Or 23% of the season.
Cap Consideration - Malkin alone takes up 13.5% of a teams total cap space. Again, this is while playing less than 80% of his teams games
Opportunity Cost - What is it gonna take to acquire a player that will surely throw a teams depth chart out of whack.
No one is going to be doing the Pens any favors. Not insinuating that the Pens will give him up for a song, but no one is going to run knocking on their door offering up four young cheap cost controlled assets just to burden themselves with that contract (9.5 for 7 more years) and no depth.
That is sad to say. The guys had many injuries the last few years and are not well surrounded on the wings. Changing management and coaching staff did not help. They both need at least one big winger who can score and make space.
We will give you Desharnais and Parenteau for Malkin.... Just kidding.
Who can afford Malkin's contract ? + Giving some good young assets like a very good winger for Crosby ?
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2004
- 34,255
- 19,341
How am I getting carried away? They have never had the chance to play with creative, highly skilled wingers. There is no way around the truth here.
Dupuis, Kunitz and Neal all have zero creativity. Dupuis and Kunitz are straight line guys that have always handled the puck like a hand grenade and Neal was lazy as sin and let Malkin do most of the work for him. None of the three can/could beat anyone 1-1 or hang onto the puck and create space for Malkin/Crosby.
Hornqvist is a beast and I love his game, but he isn't a creative guy either.
Voight
#winning
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,689
- 1,480
I'd agree with this.
Malkin and Letang for Stastny, a shutdown guy for the blues, and 2 picks?
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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Horvath Broncos
Registered User
- Aug 21, 2013
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name some wingers that would be good enough creatively for Malkin and Crosby. I'll bet that they are also pretty expensive players and because of Malkin's, Crosby's and Letang's cap hits I don't see pens adding creative wingers for both Malkin and Crosby and without Letang the defense would be pretty bad so if you want great creative wingers for Crosby it won't be easy without trading Geno.
DearDiary
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Horvath Broncos
Registered User
- Aug 21, 2013
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and that is absolutely good enough top6 to fight for the Stanley Cup.
it was pens biggest stars who failed on them that year no doubt about it. they had the depth and star power that year to win it all. though pens fans will probably blame everybody except Crosby and Malkin for that failure. Coach, wingers, defence, Fleury etc.
NeilYoung
Registered User
- May 7, 2009
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Capitals fan stopping by to say I like what the Pens have done since there cup win please keep doing it
Vegeta
God Dammit Nappa
Iginla was on his off wing for the first time in his career and completely bombed. Kunitz put up points but wouldn't fight in the corners, and could never create his own shot. Dupuis is not a first line winger. Neal had the same problem as Kunitz. Wingers like Hossa/Sharp/Benn/Paddy Kane/etc can actually create space for themselves when they have the puck. They give the other stars on their team creative freedom because of it. The Penguins' wingers have always been incompetent at this. Aside from 2 months of Hossa, the Penguins have never had a guy that can step up for them offensively when the two stars are stymied.
Horvath Broncos
Registered User
- Aug 21, 2013
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so it was once again everybody else's fault that Bruins completely shut Pens down? i think that Pens fans just have unreasonable expectations to every player besides Geno and Crosby. Wasn't it that season when Kunitz had his best PPG when Crosby went down and Jussi Jokinen was his center.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
Sorry to the people who think this is a good idea for the Penguins but it is a dumb idea.
The problem isn't that Sid and Geno take up too much of the cap, the problem is years of poor management and organizational incompetence. Every team pays their 2 best players a ton of money just like 87 and 71. If they don't it's because their stars are young and cost-controlled on elc's. Free agency takes care of that in time.
The Penguins' problems are as follows:
1.) Obsession with veterans. They are paying Rob Scuderi, Paul Martin, and Ben Lovejoy a bunch to play d when they have a wealth of young, cheap defensemen. They are also paying other over the hill guys like Kunitz, Adams and Dupuis instead of building around youth.
2.) Ray Shero had an irrational fear of drafting forwards in the first and second rounds of the draft. The Penguins have instead tried to support Sid and Geno by acquiring old rentals which has further mortgaged the organization's future.
3.) Just general stupidity, both past regime and current. I talked about Shero already. Well, Bylsma placed Jerome Iginla on his off wing for the first time in his career so he could keep Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis intact even though K-C-D has always been shut down in the playoffs. Now we get Mike Johnston. Johnston kept Kunitz in the top 6 all year even though it was clear that he had no business playing that role. Johnston played Scuderi like a shutdown defenseman all year. What about GMJR? This guy thought Rob Scuderi was making Simon Despres look good and traded him for Ben ****ing Lovejoy. Nuff said.
Now somebody explain to me why the solution to the Pens' issues should not actually address any of the actual issues. Even if you could get a fair return for a player like Malkin, (which you realistically can't in a salary cap league, think about it.), the management making that trade would be the same idiots who have run the organization into the ground while wasting the primes of not 1, but 2 generational talents.
None of that even gets into the fact that Geno has a ntc and would leave the Pens with very little negotiating power. If you think there is any way the Pens trade Geno and become a better team either now or in the future then there are 3 ways to explain how you came to this conclusion. 1.) You haven't thought it through. 2.) You don't understand how a salary cap works. 3.) You have unrealistic expectations for the return the Pens would get.
The problem isn't that Sid and Geno take up too much of the cap, the problem is years of poor management and organizational incompetence. Every team pays their 2 best players a ton of money just like 87 and 71. If they don't it's because their stars are young and cost-controlled on elc's. Free agency takes care of that in time.
The Penguins' problems are as follows:
1.) Obsession with veterans. They are paying Rob Scuderi, Paul Martin, and Ben Lovejoy a bunch to play d when they have a wealth of young, cheap defensemen. They are also paying other over the hill guys like Kunitz, Adams and Dupuis instead of building around youth.
2.) Ray Shero had an irrational fear of drafting forwards in the first and second rounds of the draft. The Penguins have instead tried to support Sid and Geno by acquiring old rentals which has further mortgaged the organization's future.
3.) Just general stupidity, both past regime and current. I talked about Shero already. Well, Bylsma placed Jerome Iginla on his off wing for the first time in his career so he could keep Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis intact even though K-C-D has always been shut down in the playoffs. Now we get Mike Johnston. Johnston kept Kunitz in the top 6 all year even though it was clear that he had no business playing that role. Johnston played Scuderi like a shutdown defenseman all year. What about GMJR? This guy thought Rob Scuderi was making Simon Despres look good and traded him for Ben ****ing Lovejoy. Nuff said.
Now somebody explain to me why the solution to the Pens' issues should not actually address any of the actual issues. Even if you could get a fair return for a player like Malkin, (which you realistically can't in a salary cap league, think about it.), the management making that trade would be the same idiots who have run the organization into the ground while wasting the primes of not 1, but 2 generational talents.
None of that even gets into the fact that Geno has a ntc and would leave the Pens with very little negotiating power. If you think there is any way the Pens trade Geno and become a better team either now or in the future then there are 3 ways to explain how you came to this conclusion. 1.) You haven't thought it through. 2.) You don't understand how a salary cap works. 3.) You have unrealistic expectations for the return the Pens would get.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
I think you have unrealistic expectations for Sid and Geno. In today's NHL its's impossible for any single player to carry a line, especially in the playoffs. When you look at 2013 things look a lot better on paper than they did in reality. K-C-D was always a good regular season line but got shut down in the post season because when other teams started really keying in on Crosby Kunitz and Dupuis were totally incapable of creating offense or space for themselves. That is not an excuse, it is a fact and anybody who has watched the Pens the last few years would agree. Then you've got Geno's line. You had an old Iginla playing a position he had never played and you had James Neal. Neal is a great goal scorer but he is a pure triggerman and can't create offense or space for himself.
Now look at the Bruins who shut them down. You've got Chara defending one of the lines and Bergeron defending the other. As we all know, these are 2 of the finest defensive players in the game. Their job was easy because all they had to do was worry about Crosby and Malkin. You can cover them closely without any fear of their linemates making you pay by taking advantage of the extra space they may get. It's not a hard concept to understand.
MattMartin
Killer Instinct™
Islanders proposal (don't be too harsh on me)
Lee + Reinhart + Okposo + Bailey
A top 3 winger Okposo
A top 6 winger Bailey
A 6-9 winger with upside Lee
And a great D prospect
Thoughts?
Lee + Reinhart + Okposo + Bailey
A top 3 winger Okposo
A top 6 winger Bailey
A 6-9 winger with upside Lee
And a great D prospect
Thoughts?
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