News Article: Why the time has come for the Leafs to name a captain

hobarth

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
1,160
294
I'm not sure what the point of bringing this up is? Last time I checked the season is 82 games, not 41. Hell, need I bring up St.Louis and Tampa Bay's seasons? If you don't think Tavares made Marner better(25 point increase), then I don't think anyone could ever satisfy you in terms of who can make players better .

As for regressing with Tavares? That's incredibly absurd and just willful ignorance . The Leafs actually had a higher ROW this season than the previous season by 4. In 17-18 season, the Leafs played 19 games that went to overtime with 7 shootout wins. In 18-19 season, the Leafs played 14 games that went into overtime with 0 shootout wins. That accounts for the points lost between the two seasons. Also, every team in the East except Tampa, had less points than the teams who made the playoffs the previous season. Pittsburgh had the same points, but dropped in the standings. So , it wasn't just Toronto who dropped points this year.

A team either puts up more points or doesn't, if the points are less than the previous season then the team is regressing. There can be a multitude of excuses(reasons) but bottom line TO was worse last year than the year before. We might not like it but it appeared TO missed players that weren't around from the previous year like JVR, Leo, etc. There should've been a natural progression by TO due to the ever improving Marner and AM and tho they were more productive their improvements were offset by TO's apparent lack of depth as pointed out by Babs.

I expect TO to further regress this year, losing players like Gardiner, Hainsey, Kadri and others without truly replacing them will hurt. Dubie has given us faint hope with the additions of Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci but TO has again suffered a major depth hit.
 
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zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
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A team either puts up more points or doesn't, if the points are less than the previous season then the team is regressing. There can be a multitude of excuses(reasons) but bottom line TO was worse last year than the year before. We might not like it but it appeared TO missed players that weren't around from the previous year like JVR, Leo, etc. There should've been a natural progression by TO due to the ever improving Marner and AM and tho they were more productive their improvements were offset by TO's apparent lack of depth as pointed out by Babs.

I expect TO to further regress this year, losing players like Gardiner, Hainsey, Kadri and others without truly replacing them will hurt. Dubie has given us faint hope with the additions of Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci but TO has again suffered a major depth hit.

There are better ways to determine how good a team is at playing hockey than just looking at points.
 

Marshy

Behind Enemy Lines
Oct 3, 2007
8,143
9,193
Ottawa
Matthews and Tavares co-captains. Rielly the A.

Shelters the captaincy a bit in this market. Allows Matthews to grow into the role without needing to be THE man.

Has it happened since Buffalo circa 2007 with Drury/Briere? Can't remember did they split games as captain or both wore the C every game?

Anyway I think it makes a lot of sense and also avoids controversy.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
12,818
3,641
Rielly handles the media really well.
Babcock made a comment last year that "no one likes being a Leaf more than Morgan".
He's signed long-term and didn't try to bend the team over backwards in negotiations.
He's shown a willingness to be coached and adjust his role/game.
He's by all accounts one of the more popular guys in the dressing room.
He's already had an A for years.
He's the longest serving Leaf.
 

KuleminFan41

Registered User
Jan 5, 2009
5,845
614
A team either puts up more points or doesn't, if the points are less than the previous season then the team is regressing. There can be a multitude of excuses(reasons) but bottom line TO was worse last year than the year before. We might not like it but it appeared TO missed players that weren't around from the previous year like JVR, Leo, etc. There should've been a natural progression by TO due to the ever improving Marner and AM and tho they were more productive their improvements were offset by TO's apparent lack of depth as pointed out by Babs.

I expect TO to further regress this year, losing players like Gardiner, Hainsey, Kadri and others without truly replacing them will hurt. Dubie has given us faint hope with the additions of Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci but TO has again suffered a major depth hit.
Your logic is extremely flawed. Let me ask you this question, Washington had 105 points this in 18-19 season and lost in the first round, in 17-18 they had 104 and won the cup, did they get better or worse? How about Tampa? In 18-19 they had 128 points and lost in the first round, in 17-18 they had 113 points and went to the conference finals. Did they get better or worse?

Fact is, the Leafs did improve, they improved their ROW, which is pretty important as it can determine who has home ice advantage and who doesn't. Pretty much every team in the East who made the playoffs saw lower point totals, and thats likely due to Tampa's dominance in the season, but as they proved and other teams proved countless times, how many points you get means absolutely nothing when it comes to the playoffs.

You're being ridiculous if you truly expect the Leafs to regress, if so, then expect Boston to regress too as they had fewer points than the previous season, or do you only hold the Leafs to an illogical standard? I'm sorry to say this but you truly are ignorant about the game.Just because you aren't familiar with players the Leafs acquired , hardly means they are worse than who left. Quite frankly, you probably shouldn't be following the team at all if its truly this difficult for you. You should come back when the Leafs reach your absurdly high standards because judging by your logic, the only players who will ever satisfy you are in the hall of fame.
 
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Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,660
A team either puts up more points or doesn't, if the points are less than the previous season then the team is regressing. There can be a multitude of excuses(reasons) but bottom line TO was worse last year than the year before. We might not like it but it appeared TO missed players that weren't around from the previous year like JVR, Leo, etc. There should've been a natural progression by TO due to the ever improving Marner and AM and tho they were more productive their improvements were offset by TO's apparent lack of depth as pointed out by Babs.

I expect TO to further regress this year, losing players like Gardiner, Hainsey, Kadri and others without truly replacing them will hurt. Dubie has given us faint hope with the additions of Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci but TO has again suffered a major depth hit.

There was no regression lol ... the Leafs changed their game strategy last season by running 3 offensive lines and not using a checking line (Kadri), they did a retooling on the forward lines strategy which should make them even stronger this season ... young 100+ perennial teams don't really regress, they adjust, retool, etc
 
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hobarth

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
1,160
294
There was no regression lol ... the Leafs changed their game strategy last season by running 3 offensive lines and not using a checking line (Kadri), they did a retooling on the forward lines strategy which should make them even stronger this season ... young 100+ perennial teams don't really regress, they adjust, retool, etc

TO is going to be retooling again this year, lost Kadri, Gardiner, Brown, etc. and replaced them with hopefully better players.

The previous year we lost Bozak, JVR, Leo, etc., it made TO weaker which I mean TO wasn't able to be as good, the absolute definition of regression. The retool of last year resulted in a team that went less than .500 from Jan.1 till the end of the year and that was with supposed massive talent infusions of Tavares and Muzzin. TO managed that regression when most of it superior players, AM & MM were on ELCs. They won't be on ELCs this year, they'll be eating up a lot of the Cap.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think this year is looking very rosy and as for the retooling, that's going to be every year.
 

Cleetus

Brick Woll
Jan 2, 2012
19,307
22,135
North!
Rielly handles the media really well.
Babcock made a comment last year that "no one likes being a Leaf more than Morgan".
He's signed long-term and didn't try to bend the team over backwards in negotiations.
He's shown a willingness to be coached and adjust his role/game.
He's by all accounts one of the more popular guys in the dressing room.
He's already had an A for years.
He's the longest serving Leaf.
good post, I agree, Captain Morgan time!
 

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
26,557
32,810
TO is going to be retooling again this year, lost Kadri, Gardiner, Brown, etc. and replaced them with hopefully better players.

The previous year we lost Bozak, JVR, Leo, etc., it made TO weaker which I mean TO wasn't able to be as good, the absolute definition of regression. The retool of last year resulted in a team that went less than .500 from Jan.1 till the end of the year and that was with supposed massive talent infusions of Tavares and Muzzin. TO managed that regression when most of it superior players, AM & MM were on ELCs. They won't be on ELCs this year, they'll be eating up a lot of the Cap.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think this year is looking very rosy and as for the retooling, that's going to be every year.
We replaced those players in house and Tavares. We got better as a team.
The team added a top pair RHD and a solid 3rd line centre with potential. Kadri was replaced with a slightly worse player. Brown will be replaced by another player who should get better. Gardiner was replaced with a much better player in Barrie. I don't see retooling here.
 

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
26,557
32,810
TO is going to be retooling again this year, lost Kadri, Gardiner, Brown, etc. and replaced them with hopefully better players.

The previous year we lost Bozak, JVR, Leo, etc., it made TO weaker which I mean TO wasn't able to be as good, the absolute definition of regression. The retool of last year resulted in a team that went less than .500 from Jan.1 till the end of the year and that was with supposed massive talent infusions of Tavares and Muzzin. TO managed that regression when most of it superior players, AM & MM were on ELCs. They won't be on ELCs this year, they'll be eating up a lot of the Cap.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think this year is looking very rosy and as for the retooling, that's going to be every year.
Are you going to respond to the other post which showed you were wrong?
 
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stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
26,557
32,810
A team either puts up more points or doesn't, if the points are less than the previous season then the team is regressing. There can be a multitude of excuses(reasons) but bottom line TO was worse last year than the year before. We might not like it but it appeared TO missed players that weren't around from the previous year like JVR, Leo, etc. There should've been a natural progression by TO due to the ever improving Marner and AM and tho they were more productive their improvements were offset by TO's apparent lack of depth as pointed out by Babs.

I expect TO to further regress this year, losing players like Gardiner, Hainsey, Kadri and others without truly replacing them will hurt. Dubie has given us faint hope with the additions of Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci but TO has again suffered a major depth hit.
Boston also got worse this season. They had 5 less points.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
A team either puts up more points or doesn't, if the points are less than the previous season then the team is regressing. There can be a multitude of excuses(reasons) but bottom line TO was worse last year than the year before.

Plenty of teams have regressed themselves to a Stanley Cup - Washington in 2018 was the most recent one.
 

LeafSteel

GO LEAFS GO!!!
Mar 5, 2014
5,615
8,288
Toronto
I think it is now between Tavares and Rielly.

I give the edge to Tavares. Signed long term, has done it before, and is already looked to for leadership.

Completely soured on Marner and Matthews at this point.
 
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deletethis

Registered User
Mar 17, 2015
7,910
2,486
Toronto
Don't do it! It only gives a target for a coordinated attack by the media parasites.

Don't think this is true? Look no further than the dolts posting bile regarding Mitch Marner (and his family).
 
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GardinerTheForward

Registered User
Mar 23, 2014
2,346
1,512
Toronto (NHL Season)
Rielly handles the media really well.
Babcock made a comment last year that "no one likes being a Leaf more than Morgan".
He's signed long-term and didn't try to bend the team over backwards in negotiations.
He's shown a willingness to be coached and adjust his role/game.
He's by all accounts one of the more popular guys in the dressing room.
He's already had an A for years.
He's the longest serving Leaf.
Babcock also said Willy wants to be a leaf and will get it done in time for camp
 

hobarth

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
1,160
294
We replaced those players in house and Tavares. We got better as a team.
The team added a top pair RHD and a solid 3rd line centre with potential. Kadri was replaced with a slightly worse player. Brown will be replaced by another player who should get better. Gardiner was replaced with a much better player in Barrie. I don't see retooling here.

Barrie better than I assume Gardiner, that remains to be seen. From what I've read about Barrie he's basically an offensive d-man that has had a sheltered role with Colorado. I expect the Barrie addition will improve TO's PP which needs improvement. Gardiner didn't play sheltered minutes and if he had played on TO's top PP he probably would've put up similar numbers to Barrie, point per game wise.

Kerfoot didn't play hardly any center in his 2 years on Colorado, he basically played with McKinnon or Jost who are the top 2 centers there. It was an interesting statement when Dubie claimed he couldn't trade Kadri without getting a center back, I guess the center is yet to be acquired.

Ceci looks to be statistically worse that Zaitsev, far worse than Hainsey.

Spezza might help TO's 2nd PP but it's difficult to expect a player who had 8 goals in each of the last 2 years to be an upgrade.

Rielly had a career year, can he have another?

Maybe the changes will work but I still think that if TO does improve it will be because Ny, AM and MM still have room to grow. We need to hope that does happen and what's left can maintain.

When I say TO regressed I mean they had less points than the previous year. Some teams have won the Cup after what appeared to be a regression year, like the Washington example above. TO started last year on fire but after Xmas their record was less than .500. TO jelled out of the gate, other teams can jell at the end of a season, jelling at the end of a season gives a team a better chance to win a Cup, limping into the playoffs rarely is good. A team can regress and still do better in the playoffs, chemistry is a strange thing. TO was worse last year, injuries were part of the reason but I remember TO facing Arizona, Arizona had 8 regulars injured, TO was thoroughly outplayed and lost, TO also lost to the worse team in the NHL last year, Ottawa, again outplayed. These games were towards the end of the regular season.
 

hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
4,792
1,998
Barrie better than I assume Gardiner, that remains to be seen. From what I've read about Barrie he's basically an offensive d-man that has had a sheltered role with Colorado. I expect the Barrie addition will improve TO's PP which needs improvement. Gardiner didn't play sheltered minutes and if he had played on TO's top PP he probably would've put up similar numbers to Barrie, point per game wise.

Kerfoot didn't play hardly any center in his 2 years on Colorado, he basically played with McKinnon or Jost who are the top 2 centers there. It was an interesting statement when Dubie claimed he couldn't trade Kadri without getting a center back, I guess the center is yet to be acquired.

Ceci looks to be statistically worse that Zaitsev, far worse than Hainsey.

Spezza might help TO's 2nd PP but it's difficult to expect a player who had 8 goals in each of the last 2 years to be an upgrade.

Rielly had a career year, can he have another?

Maybe the changes will work but I still think that if TO does improve it will be because Ny, AM and MM still have room to grow. We need to hope that does happen and what's left can maintain.

When I say TO regressed I mean they had less points than the previous year. Some teams have won the Cup after what appeared to be a regression year, like the Washington example above. TO started last year on fire but after Xmas their record was less than .500. TO jelled out of the gate, other teams can jell at the end of a season, jelling at the end of a season gives a team a better chance to win a Cup, limping into the playoffs rarely is good. A team can regress and still do better in the playoffs, chemistry is a strange thing. TO was worse last year, injuries were part of the reason but I remember TO facing Arizona, Arizona had 8 regulars injured, TO was thoroughly outplayed and lost, TO also lost to the worse team in the NHL last year, Ottawa, again outplayed. These games were towards the end of the regular season.
Final standings don't guaranty a Stanley Cup or anything...see Tampa Bay for example..So points are not all that important....Just get to the dance !
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Barrie better than I assume Gardiner, that remains to be seen. From what I've read about Barrie he's basically an offensive d-man that has had a sheltered role with Colorado. I expect the Barrie addition will improve TO's PP which needs improvement. Gardiner didn't play sheltered minutes and if he had played on TO's top PP he probably would've put up similar numbers to Barrie, point per game wise.

1. Gardiner and Barrie played against pretty much identical quality of competition.

2. Barrie is one of the super-elite even strength dman producers in hockey. Top-5 in the league. Gardiner is nowhere close to that. The gap is even bigger on the PP.

Kerfoot didn't play hardly any center in his 2 years on Colorado, he basically played with McKinnon or Jost who are the top 2 centers there. It was an interesting statement when Dubie claimed he couldn't trade Kadri without getting a center back, I guess the center is yet to be acquired.

1. Kerfoot played mostly at center in Colorado, with his 4 main wingers being Colin Wilson, Tyson Jost, J.T. Compher, and Sven Andrighetto.

2. 20yr old Jost has barely played any Center at all in his career so far.

3. Kerfoot has spent a little time on the wing, with all of MacKinnon, Soderberg, and Duchene. His produciton playing on the wing with them was no different than his production as a center.




basing your arguments on bald faced lies is not a great tactic, fyi.
 

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
26,557
32,810
Barrie better than I assume Gardiner, that remains to be seen. From what I've read about Barrie he's basically an offensive d-man that has had a sheltered role with Colorado. I expect the Barrie addition will improve TO's PP which needs improvement. Gardiner didn't play sheltered minutes and if he had played on TO's top PP he probably would've put up similar numbers to Barrie, point per game wise.

Kerfoot didn't play hardly any center in his 2 years on Colorado, he basically played with McKinnon or Jost who are the top 2 centers there. It was an interesting statement when Dubie claimed he couldn't trade Kadri without getting a center back, I guess the center is yet to be acquired.

Ceci looks to be statistically worse that Zaitsev, far worse than Hainsey.

Spezza might help TO's 2nd PP but it's difficult to expect a player who had 8 goals in each of the last 2 years to be an upgrade.

Rielly had a career year, can he have another?

Maybe the changes will work but I still think that if TO does improve it will be because Ny, AM and MM still have room to grow. We need to hope that does happen and what's left can maintain.

When I say TO regressed I mean they had less points than the previous year. Some teams have won the Cup after what appeared to be a regression year, like the Washington example above. TO started last year on fire but after Xmas their record was less than .500. TO jelled out of the gate, other teams can jell at the end of a season, jelling at the end of a season gives a team a better chance to win a Cup, limping into the playoffs rarely is good. A team can regress and still do better in the playoffs, chemistry is a strange thing. TO was worse last year, injuries were part of the reason but I remember TO facing Arizona, Arizona had 8 regulars injured, TO was thoroughly outplayed and lost, TO also lost to the worse team in the NHL last year, Ottawa, again outplayed. These games were towards the end of the regular season.

Barrie is better then Gardiner by a lot. We don't need to see because we already know he is better. Your logic doesn't make any sense and seems to indicate excuses. I think if Nylander got top PP minutes like Pastarnak, he would have the same point totals. Let me guess, you will say thats not the same thing.

Kerfoot took over 450 faceoffs, and won around 56% of them. He is a centre.
Ceci might be worse but Zaitsev and Hainsey played a higher role then they should have. I think it evens out.
Spezza is a 4th line centre who is upgrade on Gauthier.
Rielly isn't the only player who had a career in the NHL.

They certainly didn't play in the new year, but thats more of a coaching problem. Every team gets outplayed at some point against any team. It's not just Toronto.
 

hobarth

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
1,160
294
1. Gardiner and Barrie played against pretty much identical quality of competition.

2. Barrie is one of the super-elite even strength dman producers in hockey. Top-5 in the league. Gardiner is nowhere close to that. The gap is even bigger on the PP.



1. Kerfoot played mostly at center in Colorado, with his 4 main wingers being Colin Wilson, Tyson Jost, J.T. Compher, and Sven Andrighetto.

2. 20yr old Jost has barely played any Center at all in his career so far.

3. Kerfoot has spent a little time on the wing, with all of MacKinnon, Soderberg, and Duchene. His produciton playing on the wing with them was no different than his production as a center.




basing your arguments on bald faced lies is not a great tactic, fyi.

I got my info from Hot Stove via Pirelli, where did you get yours?

I don't think Duschene played for Colorado last year. According to Pirrelli Jost was Kerfoot's center last year, he did note that Kerfoot took a lot of faceoffs but that alone doesn't make him a center, Nylander took a lot of faceoffs when he was AM's RW.

Two years ago Gardiner had 52 points, Barrie 57, Barrie's impressive offensive stats come from the PP and mostly offensive zone starts. Colorado's defensive zone d-men were Girard and Johnson.

I think TO might be able to progress this year but I think the only way that will happen is by playing the top 2 lines more and putting TO's superior talent on those lines.

Kerfoot/AM/Ny
Johnsson/JT/MM
Engvall/Hy/Kappy
Aberg/Shore/Moore ot Spezza
 

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