Why the Erik Haula Trade is bad

[ZINFINITY16]

https://fansoftheroundtable.wordpre...-breaking-down-the-bad-vegas-minnesota-trade/

Hey guys, wrote a blog about my opinions on the Erik Haula trade w Minnesota, any feedback would be great . Hoping to grow and write more about vegas especially this week.

Click to read more...

 

[HanSolo]

I'm in agreement. If this trade is indeed as reported, McPhee got taken advantage of.

 

[TaLoN]

https://fansoftheroundtable.wordpre...-breaking-down-the-bad-vegas-minnesota-trade/

Hey guys, wrote a blog about my opinions on the Erik Haula trade w Minnesota, any feedback would be great . Hoping to grow and write more about vegas especially this week.

Technically, it's the Tuch trade, Haula was your pick.

 

[Vegas Mac]

You make a lot of assumptions in your article.

Some things to consider are that the conditional pick has not been identified, and that Dumba is going to be a free agent after this season, which do affect his value in this equation. Teams certainly are interested, I am certain many were, but McPhee has said all along the value he'd get in protection deals must exceed what he would gain from other suitors. So whatever the end result is, is it a bad trade if the value was driven by the market?

Also, of the picks he has accrued, we knew going in that some would be futures, in order to ensure the first few drafts were positioned to load the organizational depth. This is undoubtedly one of those.

Anyway, it's all well and good to post up a blog calling a trade "bad." I mean we all have our opinions. But I think it's wise to wait and see how things shake out. Fact is we never know with prospects. And getting a top prospect is never easy, particularly one who possesses power forward ability along with plus hands. And lastly while Haula is nothing special, he is the type of young player a roster needs for right now, on top of the futures consideration of pick + prospect.

I'm going to withhold judgment for now on not only this trade, but also the others that include the prospects. Because those guys are hit and miss just like picks.

 

[TaLoN]

You make a lot of assumptions in your article.

Some things to consider are that the conditional pick has not been identified, and that Dumba is going to be a free agent after this season, which do affect his value in this equation. Teams certainly are interested, I am certain many were, but McPhee has said all along the value he'd get in protection deals must exceed what he would gain from other suitors. So whatever the end result is, is it a bad trade if the value was driven by the market?

Also, of the picks he has accrued, we knew going in that some would be futures, in order to ensure the first few drafts were positioned to load the organizational depth. This is undoubtedly one of those.

Anyway, it's all well and good to post up a blog calling a trade "bad." I mean we all have our opinions. But I think it's wise to wait and see how things shake out. Fact is we never know with prospects. And getting a top prospect is never easy, particularly one who possesses power forward ability along with plus hands. And lastly while Haula is nothing special, he is the type of young player a roster needs for right now, on top of the futures consideration of pick + prospect.

I'm going to withhold judgment for now on not only this trade, but also the others that include the prospects. Because those guys are hit and miss just like picks.

The pick has been identified...

[Tweet]877630215354064896[/MEDIA]
[Tweet]877630803424944128[/MEDIA]

A 2017 or 2018 3rd round pick goes to the Wild.

As for Dumba, not a UFA next year, but a RFA. He's only 22 years old and team controlled for several more years.

 

[The Duck Knight]

You make a lot of assumptions in your article.

Some things to consider are that the conditional pick has not been identified, and that Dumba is going to be a free agent after this season, which do affect his value in this equation. Teams certainly are interested, I am certain many were, but McPhee has said all along the value he'd get in protection deals must exceed what he would gain from other suitors. So whatever the end result is, is it a bad trade if the value was driven by the market?

Also, of the picks he has accrued, we knew going in that some would be futures, in order to ensure the first few drafts were positioned to load the organizational depth. This is undoubtedly one of those.

Anyway, it's all well and good to post up a blog calling a trade "bad." I mean we all have our opinions. But I think it's wise to wait and see how things shake out. Fact is we never know with prospects. And getting a top prospect is never easy, particularly one who possesses power forward ability along with plus hands. And lastly while Haula is nothing special, he is the type of young player a roster needs for right now, on top of the futures consideration of pick + prospect.

I'm going to withhold judgment for now on not only this trade, but also the others that include the prospects. Because those guys are hit and miss just like picks.

Correct. It may be something so meaningless as "Tuch plays in 50 NHL games this year", which I doubt will happen unless he is fantastic in camp.

And I'm personally glad they stayed away from Dumba. Not a fan at all. I think he's really lacking in the hockey IQ department. The one questionable thing is I think they could have gotten more for either Dumba or Scandella if they were to have taken and flipped them, but oh well.

 

[TaLoN]

Correct. It may be something so meaningless as "Tuch plays in 50 NHL games this year", which I doubt will happen unless he is fantastic in camp.

And I'm personally glad they stayed away from Dumba. Not a fan at all. I think he's really lacking in the hockey IQ department. The one questionable thing is I think they could have gotten more for either Dumba or Scandella if they were to have taken and flipped them, but oh well.

The pick has been identified...

[Tweet]877630215354064896[/MEDIA]
[Tweet]877630803424944128[/MEDIA]

A 2017 or 2018 3rd round pick goes to the Wild.

As previously posted.

 

[FrodoBeggins]

I would say that Iowa is one of the weakest clubs in the AHL. It's about the fact that Tukh's statistics are weak. In addition power striker needs more time to develop.

 

[Aurinko]

I became an active Wild fan after they signed Haula, so my opinion is biased, but I think he is a steal and a very smart pick. In the previous season he had the highest +/- in the Wild with (+21) while the second was Jared Spurgeon at (+11).

 

[FerrisRox]

https://fansoftheroundtable.wordpre...-breaking-down-the-bad-vegas-minnesota-trade/

Hey guys, wrote a blog about my opinions on the Erik Haula trade w Minnesota, any feedback would be great

This article makes some assumptions that should be quite obviously false, yet they aren't treated as so.

The entire crux of your piece is that Vegas shouldn't have made this deal and instead should have picked Scandella or Dumba.

It should be pretty clear that if Minnesota didn't have this trade in place, Scandella and Dumba wouldn't have been available. Facing the chance of losing them for nothing, the Wild quite clearly would have traded them to other teams for picks or prospects not needing protection.

You seem to want to pretend that things were black and white while ignoring the thousand shades of grey in situations like this.

I also think you grossly under estimate the player Haula is and your "analysis" seems to be based on looking at his stats rather than watching him play. With all do respect, it's hard to take someones opinion on a trade seriously at all if they haven't even watched the players play.

 

[TaLoN]

This article makes some assumptions that should be quite obviously false, yet they aren't treated as so.

The entire crux of your piece is that Vegas shouldn't have made this deal and instead should have picked Scandella or Dumba.

It should be pretty clear that if Minnesota didn't have this trade in place, Scandella and Dumba wouldn't have been available. Facing the chance of losing them for nothing, the Wild quite clearly would have traded them to other teams for picks or prospects not needing protection.

You seem to want to pretend that things were black and white while ignoring the thousand shades of grey in situations like this.

I also think you grossly under estimate the player Haula is and your "analysis" seems to be based on looking at his stats rather than watching him play. With all do respect, it's hard to take someones opinion on a trade seriously at all if they haven't even watched the players play.

You appear to be correct there...



Looks like the Wild and Vegas were all but completely settled on the plan before the deadline according to that tweet - meaning all the talk Friday about deals being very close for both Brodin and Scandella were very likely true... and when Fletcher had quality deals on the table for two of his D-men that he was willing to take had Vegas been unwilling to deal, he went to Vegas and got them to deal on his terms.

Take Haula as your pick, give us a 3rd either this year or next, and we'll give you Tuch.

If not... you get Old-man Staal.

Haula + Tuch is MUCH more appealing from Vegas' point of view than old Eric Staal fresh of a serious Concussion in the playoffs.

 

[Lapa]

You guys are gonna love Haula. He's a very good 3C and has a nice scoring ability as well.

 

[AKL]

He's an excellent 3C who can play virtually anywhere in a lineup (played a little 1W for us last year), I don't think 15g, 15-25a is out of the question for him. He's fast, he's cocky (in a good way), he's a good guy and a good player. You'll be happy with him, and honestly, I wouldn't be too surprised to see him wearing an A at some point.

Tuch has 20+ goal potential. Big kid, good skater. You'll be happy with him as well. No Wild fans wanted to see these guys gone, just an unfortunate casualty of the ED process.

Enjoy them.

 

[WadeRedden]

Looks like the Wild and Vegas were all but completely settled on the plan before the deadline according to that tweet - meaning all the talk Friday about deals being very close for both Brodin and Scandella were very likely true... and when Fletcher had quality deals on the table for two of his D-men that he was willing to take had Vegas been unwilling to deal, he went to Vegas and got them to deal on his terms.

Take Haula as your pick, give us a 3rd either this year or next, and we'll give you Tuch.

If not... you get Old-man Staal.

Haula + Tuch is MUCH more appealing from Vegas' point of view than old Eric Staal fresh of a serious Concussion in the playoffs.

Meh, I would have just called his bluff there. There's a reason defensemen weren't flying all over the place pre expansion draft and that's because many teams wouldn't have the ability to protect a guy they traded for.

The perplexing thing for me is that McPhee makes the deal to not pick Dumba, Scandella AND Stall. Like really? If I'm McPhee there I say you can make a deal to protect your Dman but if you want to protect all three then the price is going up. Stall had a very good year last year and he doesn't come with serious dollar or term commitments. Even if his production fell by 20 its he'd still be great value and Vegas would have no trouble eating his salary if they flipped him again for futures.

 

[Vegas Mac]

He's an excellent 3C who can play virtually anywhere in a lineup (played a little 1W for us last year), I don't think 15g, 15-25a is out of the question for him. He's fast, he's cocky (in a good way), he's a good guy and a good player. You'll be happy with him, and honestly, I wouldn't be too surprised to see him wearing an A at some point.

Tuch has 20+ goal potential. Big kid, good skater. You'll be happy with him as well. No Wild fans wanted to see these guys gone, just an unfortunate casualty of the ED process.

Enjoy them.

Nice to see some Wild fans weighing in on Haula. I always had him pegged as a solid lower line type, kind of guy you can overlook but that rosters need. Either way he will get plenty of opportunity in Vegas to see what he can do, looking forward to watching him play.

Tuch I'm pretty happy with. But of course as a Kings castoff and western division fan in general I like big forwards with grit and I liked him when he came out. Those guys are critical come playoffs, but he also has good hands so looking forward to following his development.

 

[Matias Maccete]

If Haula ends up being a 2/3C tweener, and Tuch becomes a top 6 winger that over Dumba is good value I suppose. There's also the possibility that Dumba doesn't even get exposed in the first place if this deal isn't it place, so it's hard to say good or bad in a vacuum.

 

[Aurinko]

Nice to see some Wild fans weighing in on Haula. I always had him pegged as a solid lower line type, kind of guy you can overlook but that rosters need. Either way he will get plenty of opportunity in Vegas to see what he can do, looking forward to watching him play.

Tuch I'm pretty happy with. But of course as a Kings castoff and western division fan in general I like big forwards with grit and I liked him when he came out. Those guys are critical come playoffs, but he also has good hands so looking forward to following his development.

+Haula is versatile as hell: 1st line winger, 3rd line center, 4th line grinder, PK-expert, two-way center, lightning fast offensive winger, defense(!!).

Like you said, he is exactly what you want in a new team full of loopholes.

 

[FerrisRox]

There's a reason defensemen weren't flying all over the place pre expansion draft and that's because many teams wouldn't have the ability to protect a guy they traded for.

Seems pretty obvious that the reason they weren't being moved is because the teams had made deals so they didn't have to move them.

 

[123TripleDoge]

Meh, I would have just called his bluff there. There's a reason defensemen weren't flying all over the place pre expansion draft and that's because many teams wouldn't have the ability to protect a guy they traded for.

The perplexing thing for me is that McPhee makes the deal to not pick Dumba, Scandella AND Stall. Like really? If I'm McPhee there I say you can make a deal to protect your Dman but if you want to protect all three then the price is going up. Stall had a very good year last year and he doesn't come with serious dollar or term commitments. Even if his production fell by 20 its he'd still be great value and Vegas would have no trouble eating his salary if they flipped him again for futures.

There wasn't a deal to avoid picking Staal, picking him simply wouldn't make sense for Vegas is doing. The deal was to pick Haula and Tuch because it's simply more value.

Haula + Tuch > Staal from Vegas perspective. It was mutually beneficial for it go the way it did

 

[Vegas Mac]

Haula + Tuch > Staal from Vegas perspective. It was mutually beneficial for it go the way it did

Yeah I can agree with this. But again I like Tuch a lot. It comes down to that I think, what you perceive Tuch's value to be.

Getting a guy who might be on the cusp of being a top six power forward is worth that risk. I like that trade very much based on Tuch alone, and more now that I have seen the Wild fans chiming in with good feedback on Haula.

 

[Aurinko]

There wasn't a deal to avoid picking Staal, picking him simply wouldn't make sense for Vegas is doing. The deal was to pick Haula and Tuch because it's simply more value.

Haula + Tuch > Staal from Vegas perspective. It was mutually beneficial for it go the way it did

+Tuch has the brains, there is a huge upside potential in him (even though he didn't prove it with the Wild).

+Haula is an underappreciated multitalent, the reason I became a Wild fan and the reason I will be a VGK fan.


If you have your goal set to 5-7 years in the future, these guys could become something really good. Both love hockey above anything else, and that can lead to good things.

 

[57special]

I think Haula is waiting to break out, and can, if given PP and Ozone time. He has offensive chops, but had little chance to use them in MN. Koivu, Staal, Coyle, Granlund all played ahead of him. Has the ability to learn. Went from mediocre on FO's to being above average...he's a guy you can stick out in key situations in the last two minutes to win a FO.

Tuch...who knows? Big, great shot, offensively skilled. First round talent. He will be up with the big club halfway through the year, barring injury. He will take a while, probably.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Dumba is incredibly overrated. GMGM made the right deal.

 

[Aurinko]

I think Haula is waiting to break out, and can, if given PP and Ozone time. He has offensive chops, but had little chance to use them in MN. Koivu, Staal, Coyle, Granlund all played ahead of him. Has the ability to learn. Went from mediocre on FO's to being above average...he's a guy you can stick out in key situations in the last two minutes to win a FO.

Tuch...who knows? Big, great shot, offensively skilled. First round talent. He will be up with the big club halfway through the year, barring injury. He will take a while, probably.

It is true that Haula is inconsistent and has an ego the size of a small planet, but when you have a coach that believes in him, he could deliver the exact stuff you see in those youtube highlights.

OFC my opinion isn't worth much since I'm a long time fan, but the stats don't lie.

 

[TaLoN]

Another update on the details behind how the deal went down...

Russo was on KFAN radio this afternoon and said that the Wild gave Vegas the choice of Kaprizov, Greenway or Tuch as the prospect, and they chose Tuch.