Why retooling is the best option for the Habs

[WeThreeKings]

Last Word on Sports is absolute garbage

 

[The Great Weal]

How are they not? If they drop the scraps such as Benn and Schlemko, there is nothing wrong with this D core. They could potentially add another piece to play with Weber, but at the moment for me its:
Mete-Weber
Reilly-Petry
Alzner-Juulsen
Lernout

I don't see an issue with this D. There is the possibility of Dahlin being added there, which would end up pushing Reilly out or Alzner if someone would take his contract (unlikely)

Look harder. You will see the issue once you notice that we only have 2 top 4 dmen.

 

[Phozzwald]

Lmao. Victor Mete was phenomenal? Love the kid but come on.

He was phenomenal for a 19 year old kid. He makes minimal mistakes, moves the puck well and is very quick. He doesn't get caught out of position often and if he does he is fast enough to get back. He looked even better after returning from the world juniors. Many had him wrote off when he made the team due to his size. He proved all the naysayers wrong. This guy is a 4th round pick in the same draft as Sergachev, and is already in the NHL. Not many defenceman make the jump that early and play as well as he did.

 

[Phozzwald]

Look harder. You will see the issue once you notice that we only have 2 top 4 dmen.

I would consider say 3 at this moment as Mete could be a four. Weber a 1 and Petry a 3. It would be nice to add another of course. But my point is that they are serviceable, not elite.

 

[Kriss E]

Everytime someone says ''Edmonton has tanked for years..look at them'' makes me think they started watching hockey a couple years ago.

 

[mariolemieux66]

Because I honestly don't feel we are that far off. I feel we can win now with Price and Weber still able to produce. Edmonton has tanked for years and are still failing. It's never a sure thing even if you tank. But the team right now has a good core and are just needing to address the centre position. IF they are able to sign JT and trade Pacioretty to acquire another, you have a better group then you would have even with a tank.

We are not that far off?? Are you serious?
Have you watched the playoffs last year?
Are you watching the playoffs now?
We finished 28th overall.
Our farm team finished dead last.
Our coach is a defense minded coach with the 3rd worst offense in the league. There isn't much a difference in goals score between Tavares and Pacioretty, not enough to win the cup. Who do you trade Max for?
We need 2 top 4 dmen and no, Mete and Juulsen are not the answer, not for a couple of years anyway and by that time Weber will be 35+.
After next year, which players are we going to have on a ELC able to help us win the cup? 0

 

[The Great Weal]

He was phenomenal for a 19 year old kid. He makes minimal mistakes, moves the puck well and is very quick. He doesn't get caught out of position often and if he does he is fast enough to get back. He looked even better after returning from the world juniors. Many had him wrote off when he made the team due to his size. He proved all the naysayers wrong. This guy is a 4th round pick in the same draft as Sergachev, and is already in the NHL. Not many defenceman make the jump that early and play as well as he did.

He's got 7 points in 49 games. Far from phenomenal, he shouldn't have even been here if we hadn't demolished the defense. I am really impressed with Mete, and I'm happy that we have him. But he isn't a top 4 dman.

 

[Phozzwald]

Everytime someone says ''Edmonton has tanked for years..look at them'' makes me think they started watching hockey a couple years ago.

.... not at all the case. Just an easy point to make. Getting first overall pick every year isnt a guarantee, as they have proven.

 

[Kriss E]

He was phenomenal for a 19 year old kid. He makes minimal mistakes, moves the puck well and is very quick. He doesn't get caught out of position often and if he does he is fast enough to get back. He looked even better after returning from the world juniors. Many had him wrote off when he made the team due to his size. He proved all the naysayers wrong. This guy is a 4th round pick in the same draft as Sergachev, and is already in the NHL. Not many defenceman make the jump that early and play as well as he did.

No, he wasn't phenomenal. He was good. He should have played in juniors all year really, but we were so desperate for someone able to move the puck decently well that he played here.

There wasn't much naysayers either...not sure what you are talking about. Kid was good, not quite ready.

 

[The Great Weal]

I would consider say 3 at this moment as Mete could be a four. Weber a 1 and Petry a 3. It would be nice to add another of course. But my point is that they are serviceable, not elite.

Key word is could. You compare it to other teams and it's not even close. That's also banking on the fact that Weber remains a #1 dman after the surgery.

 

[Kriss E]

.... not at all the case. Just an easy point to make. Getting first overall pick every year isnt a guarantee, as they have proven.

Right...
The only thing people ever said was a guarantee here is that we would get more talent off drafting earlier, which is true. If we draft in the top 5 for the next 3 years, we should most definitely, beyond a complete clusterf***, draft better talent than if we did so in mid-late rounds.
Will this make us into a contender? Of course not. We still need to build around, which is what Edmonton has failed at, who btw, has not been trying to tank.

Would we have a better chance to become a solid team with three top 5 picks though? Absolutely.

 

[NotProkofievian]

.... not at all the case. Just an easy point to make. Getting first overall pick every year isnt a guarantee, as they have proven.

Good thing your plan is a guarantee then.

 

[Phozzwald]

We are not that far off?? Are you serious?
Have you watched the playoffs last year?
Are you watching the playoffs now?
We finished 28th overall.
Our farm team finished dead last.
Our coach is a defense minded coach with the 3rd worst offense in the league. There isn't much a difference in goals score between Tavares and Pacioretty, not enough to win the cup. Who do you trade Max for?
We need 2 top 4 dmen and no, Mete and Juulsen are not the answer, not for a couple of years anyway and by that time Weber will be 35+.
After next year, which players are we going to have on a ELC able to help us win the cup? 0

I did watch, and I am watching. The Habs could not score. But compare the line up in last years playoffs to what we would have now. Add Tavares. The D is younger and faster. Add a top 5 pick from this years draft. All of which are NHL ready.
Hypothetical roster: Lets say habs and sabres make a deal involving Pacioretty and Oreilly and they win the lottery.
( Again, hypothetical)

Drouin-Tavares-Gallagher
Galchenyuk- O'Reilly-Scherbak
Lehkonen-Danault-Hudon
Byron-De La Rose-Shaw
Deslauriers

Dahlin-Weber
Mete-Petry
Alzner-Juulsen
Reilly

Price
Lindgren

Is that not a line up that could compete each and every night? I cant see how tanking for 3 years gets you anything guaranteed like this.

 

[Phozzwald]

He's got 7 points in 49 games. Far from phenomenal, he shouldn't have even been here if we hadn't demolished the defense. I am really impressed with Mete, and I'm happy that we have him. But he isn't a top 4 dman.

I feel if the Habs were able to put the puck in the net this season, he would have more than 7 points. Just my IMO. You are correct that obviously 7 points in 49 games is far from phenomenal. Im more so going on how he carried himself on the ice moreso then point totals. He looked like a potential top 4 guy to me.

 

[The Great Weal]

I did watch, and I am watching. The Habs could not score. But compare the line up in last years playoffs to what we would have now. Add Tavares. The D is younger and faster. Add a top 5 pick from this years draft. All of which are NHL ready.
Hypothetical roster: Lets say habs and sabres make a deal involving Pacioretty and Oreilly and they win the lottery.
( Again, hypothetical)

Drouin-Tavares-Gallagher
Galchenyuk- O'Reilly-Scherbak
Lehkonen-Danault-Hudon
Byron-De La Rose-Shaw
Deslauriers

Dahlin-Weber
Mete-Petry
Alzner-Juulsen
Reilly

Price
Lindgren

Is that not a line up that could compete each and every night? I cant see how tanking for 3 years gets you anything guaranteed like this.

So your plan consists of:
-Getting Dahlin
-Getting Tavares
-Force the Sabres to take a player they don't need/want for a better player

Great. What happens when none of those moves work out?

 

[Runner77]

IF they are able to sign JT and trade Pacioretty to acquire another, you have a better group then you would have even with a tank.

Please no, let's not turn this into something most of us know will never happen. He's going to have 31 teams after him and most of them will have a lot more to offer than the Habs and we're not just talking straight up salary.

Also, the Habs have been repeatedly on record as wanting a "reset". A rebuild would be interesting but it's not an option as far as the way this team is managed. No team featuring such a significant investment in two players who are 30 or older, will go for a rebuild, not to mention a GM on a short leash who wouldn't even be around when the hoped-for rebuild hopefully begins to reap benefits.

 

[The Great Weal]

I feel if the Habs were able to put the puck in the net this season, he would have more than 7 points. Just my IMO. You are correct that obviously 7 points in 49 games is far from phenomenal. Im more so going on how he carried himself on the ice moreso then point totals. He looked like a potential top 4 guy to me.

Potential being the key word.

 

[Phozzwald]

Right...
The only thing people ever said was a guarantee here is that we would get more talent off drafting earlier, which is true. If we draft in the top 5 for the next 3 years, we should most definitely, beyond a complete cluster****, draft better talent than if we did so in mid-late rounds.
Will this make us into a contender? Of course not. We still need to build around, which is what Edmonton has failed at, who btw, has not been trying to tank.

Would we have a better chance to become a solid team with three top 5 picks though? Absolutely.

Would we not become a solid team if the centre position was address and we added Tavares and say O'Reilly?

 

[CHfan1]

Because I honestly don't feel we are that far off. I feel we can win now with Price and Weber still able to produce. Edmonton has tanked for years and are still failing. It's never a sure thing even if you tank. But the team right now has a good core and are just needing to address the centre position. IF they are able to sign JT and trade Pacioretty to acquire another, you have a better group then you would have even with a tank.

I posted this on another thread, I’ll post it again that shows how bad this team is, especially against top competition:

With Weber they were 10-13-3, on track for 73 points (they finished with 71). They didn’t win their first game against a playoff team until a month into the season.

They got shutout 12 times, 1 goal or less 27 times.

They played playoff teams 43 times this season and had a whopping 8 wins. They were 13-1 against Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, and Vancouver though.

And Weber, Price, and Pacioretty will all be a year older and they have zero elite prospects coming to help them. Their prospect pool was ranked 28/31.

Enough with the quick fixes, rebuild properly and maybe draft a player that could put up 70 points or more, something a Hab player hasn’t done in a decade.

This is not a good team.

What’s the plan if they don’t sign Tavares or don’t win the lottery or Price doesn’t turn back into his 2014-2015 self?

 

[mariolemieux66]

I did watch, and I am watching. The Habs could not score. But compare the line up in last years playoffs to what we would have now. Add Tavares. The D is younger and faster. Add a top 5 pick from this years draft. All of which are NHL ready.
Hypothetical roster: Lets say habs and sabres make a deal involving Pacioretty and Oreilly and they win the lottery.
( Again, hypothetical)

Drouin-Tavares-Gallagher
Galchenyuk- O'Reilly-Scherbak
Lehkonen-Danault-Hudon
Byron-De La Rose-Shaw
Deslauriers

Dahlin-Weber
Mete-Petry
Alzner-Juulsen
Reilly

Price
Lindgren

Is that not a line up that could compete each and every night? I cant see how tanking for 3 years gets you anything guaranteed like this.

This line up might work under the cap for next year, but what about the following year?
Mete on the second pairing with Petry in the playoffs will get eaten alive.
Price, Weber and Pacioretty should be traded for assets, draft picks and cap dump. We need to accumulated as many picks as possible and draft by best players available.
Our core is not very good and aging toward decline.
That is the reality of this team.

 

[Phozzwald]

Potential being the key word.

Thats fair. I guess nothing is a guarantee, but i loved what I saw from him last season, and am excited to see if he can build off it

 

[Runner77]

No, he wasn't phenomenal. He was good. He should have played in juniors all year really, but we were so desperate for someone able to move the puck decently well that he played here.

There wasn't much naysayers either...not sure what you are talking about. Kid was good, not quite ready.

What was phenomenal is how the Habs were so desperate for someone to help cover for Bergevin's gutting of the whole left side of the D, that they were willing to burn a year of ELC instead of letting the kid just play in the juniors. Yet another nail in the coffin of "no one will ever complain if you leave a prospect in the juniors an extra year" axiom, that Bergevin was so proud of endorsing.

 

[The Great Weal]

Thats fair. I guess nothing is a guarantee, but i loved what I saw from him last season, and am excited to see if he can build off it

I was excited to see what more he could have done if we let him dominate a game more suited for his style instead of forcing him in our defense because we had nobody else.

 

[Phozzwald]

I posted this on another thread, I’ll post it again that shows how bad this team is, especially against top competition:

With Weber they were 10-13-3, on track for 73 points (they finished with 71). They didn’t win their first game against a playoff team until a month into the season.

They got shutout 12 times, 1 goal or less 27 times.

They played playoff teams 43 times this season and had a whopping 8 wins. They were 13-1 against Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, and Vancouver though.

And Weber, Price, and Pacioretty will all be a year older and they have zero elite prospects coming to help them. Their prospect pool was ranked 28/31.

Enough with the quick fixes, rebuild properly and maybe draft a player that could put up 70 points or more, something a Hab player hasn’t done in a decade.

This is not a good team.

What’s the plan if they don’t sign Tavares or don’t win the lottery or Price doesn’t turn back into his 2014-2015 self?

This year was a complete disaster there is no other way to describe it. Lets not forget though that the Habs finished first in the atlantic just a year before.

Weber played injured from game one after taking a shot to the foot from Eichel.

We will have 1 elite prospect coming this year and Drouin is still very young.

Plan if they dont sign Tavares would be to use the depth on the wing/picks to acquire centres. They could have a potential O'Reilly-Stastny combo. Which is decent as well. Poehling on the way up and hopefully he can be a future number 2.

Everyone seems to forget Price was very good last season as well. He posted a 2.23 GAA and .923 sv%. Finished 3rd in Vezina voting. Hes bounced back from injury and adversity before. Theres no reason to think he wont do it again

 

[Kimota]

That journalist must be on the Foxhole payroll.