Why Ovi is actually Brett Hull

[BlueBull]

Both of them also have 1 Stanley Cup to their name, which they got late, but not very late, into their careers.

 

[Sky04]

The Ovy on the back half of his career is similar to Brett Hull as a pure sniper. The Ovy in his first 5 years was far better as an elite player. He was a one man wrecking ball.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Both of them also have 1 Stanley Cup to their name, which they got late, but not very late, into their careers.

Hull has 2, one with Dallas in 1999 and one with Detroit in 2002. Hull got these cups later than Ovi (35 & 38 vs 32 for Ovi).

 

[amnesiac]

Both of them also have 1 Stanley Cup to their name, which they got late, but not very late, into their careers.

Hull has 2

 

[filinski77]

Surface level they appear the same, but Ovi played in a significantly lower scoring era. The league scoring for Hull didn't decrease until his age-32 season.

	League avg Scoring
Ovi 20-35	2.85
Hull 23-32	3.4
Hull 33-39	2.66
Hull 3yr peak	3.54
Ovi 3yr peak	2.84

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I can't remember if I recall correctly, but I believe Hull has the best era-adjusted goal total in the history of the league. Either way, if you took both of their careers, and adjusted to 3.74 goals/gp (the highest Hull had in a year he played, and used the highest for simplicity of adjusting), and adjusted to 82 games:

	Adj Goals			Adj Points
Hull	98		Ovi	163
Ovi	87		Ovi	151
Hull	85		Hull	149
Ovi	75		Ovi	147
Hull	75		Hull	132
Ovi	75		Ovi	132
Ovi	75		Ovi	130
Ovi	74		Hull	127
Ovi	73		Ovi	118
Ovi	72		Hull	118
Ovi	72		Ovi	117
Hull	67		Hull	116
Ovi	64		Ovi	113
Ovi	64		Hull	113
Hull	62		Hull	113
Hull	62		Ovi	112
Ovi	62		Ovi	112
Hull	60		Hull	112
Ovi	58		Hull	111
Ovi	57		Ovi	110
Hull	57		Hull	107
Hull	57		Hull	107
Hull	55		Hull	107
Ovi	55		Ovi	102
Hull	52		Hull	100
Hull	48		Ovi	100
Ovi	45		Ovi	99
Ovi	45		Ovi	94
Hull	43		Ovi	93
Hull	43		Hull	90
Hull	41		Hull	88
Hull	37		Hull	83
Hull	34		Hull	81

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Other than Hull's one amazing goalscoring season, Ovi blows him out of the water after that. As far as points go, Ovi beats him there pretty comfortably too. I know adjusting based on league averages isn't perfect, but it's the best that can be done. Someone already posted the goal/point finishes and awards, and those obviously speak for themselves as well.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Hull was a far far better defensive and all-around player and these were not exactly strong traits of his. Ovechkin's 'legacy' is already being unraveled.

Wait, what? The words “Hull” and “defensive” should never be uttered in the same sentence.

 

[nowhereman]

Yeah this isn't a great comparison. Hull was a one-dimensional player who had his best seasons in a seriously inflated scoring era. He was great at what he did, no doubt, but he benefitted from the era and elite setup men. He is probably the most overrated player of all time. A better comparable for Hull is Laine.

Ovechkin is just a far more rounded player who has a much greater impact on his team. I would also say he's even better than Hull at the one thing Hull did well - goal scoring. In fact, accounting for eras it's not even close.

This is a very poor take and a horrible comparison. Brett Hull is one of the greatest goalscorers in NHL history and has peak seasons that rival OV's, in terms of goalscoring prowess. Laine is an entitled kid who can't string together elite seasons without getting into arguments with his coaches and teammates. Laine can't even hold Hull's jockstrap.

And Ovechkin is not "far more rounded". Outside of the difference in hitting, Ovechkin doesn't really have more facets to his game than Hull. Both players are not what I would call well-rounded. Now, Ovechkin's career (top 10-20) is significantly better than Hull's (top 70-80) but that's not because Hull was some overrated goal suck or because Ovechkin is some well-rounded, two-way beast.

I actually think this is a good comparison. Peak OV was more like Bobby but post-2010 OV wasn't too disimilar to Brett.

 

[Esq]

I am guessing every single one of those 20 SHGs Hull scored was him stepping out of the box and catching a breakaway pass from the red line.

 

[amnesiac]

Neither was Oates. He doesn't have a single argument for being a better playmaker than Lemieux, Gretzky and Orr.

3rd greatest playmaking forward then.

 

[Iapyi]

This is a very poor take and a horrible comparison. Brett Hull is one of the greatest goalscorers in NHL history and has peak seasons that rival OV's, in terms of goalscoring prowess. Laine is an entitled kid who can't string together elite seasons without getting into arguments with his coaches and teammates. Laine can't even hold Hull's jockstrap.

And Ovechkin is not "far more rounded". Outside of the difference in hitting, Ovechkin doesn't really have more facets to his game than Hull. Both players are not what I would call well-rounded. Now, Ovechkin's career (top 10-20) is significantly better than Hull's (top 70-80) but that's not because Hull was some overrated goal suck or not because Ovechkin is some well-rounded, two-way beast.

I actually think this is a good comparison. Peak OV was more like Bobby but post-2010 OV wasn't too disimilar to Brett.

Exactly [emboldened]. I can already visualize the narrative when Ovechkin retires about him being a complete player which we all know is hogwash.

I'm pretty sure Brett Hull had an aversion to EN goals as well. If he somehow was on the ice with an empty net he would rather pass it off then get an EN goal and had over 500 or 600 career goals before he ever got one. I may be remembering this wrong though.

 

[amnesiac]

Ovie - Oates - Hull

vs
Jagr-Thornton-Bure

WHO WINS this battle of epic proportions???

 

[avsfan9]

	Ovechkin	Hull
Rockets	9 (and counting)	3
Top 3 in Goals	11 (and counting)	4
Top 5 in Goals	13 (and counting)	4
Top 10 in Goals	14 (and counting)	8
Hart Trophies	3	1
Hart Trophy Finalist	5	3
Art Ross	1	0
Top 3 in Points	5	1
Top 10 in Points	8	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I suppose the answer is a hard no on this one.

Hull played with Gretzky, Lemieux and Jagr. 3 of the greatest offensive players in Hockey history. Going to be hard to top those players. Ovi has easier competition to deal with. Yes Gretzky and Lemieux are way better than Mcdavid and Draisytl

 

[GlitchMarner]

Peak Ovi is Bobby.

Post-2010 Ovi is Brett.

I'm inclined to believe that Oates had significant influence on his transformation as a player and probably encouraged him to adopt some of Hull's tendencies and use some of his tricks. It was in 2013 that he really reinvented himself as a player (effectively anyway) and he had Oates (Brett's former setup man) as his coach then.

 

[Steven Toast]

I am guessing every single one of those 20 SHGs Hull scored was him stepping out of the box and catching a breakaway pass from the red line.

If he's out of the box it ain't shorthanded.

 

[SC2GM]

It's pretty humorous to me how little respect Hull seems to get. It makes no sense, to me, that anytime you hear Hull, they're always talking about his dad. The guy had freaking 86 goals in a season. How many goals would you expect the "perfect goal scorer" to get? 31 goals more than second place? That's insane. Brett Hull was flat out money.

Think about this. Over a 3 season stretch, Brett Hull scored 228 goals in 231 games and had 353 points. He lost his goal per game... during that third season where he had... wait for it... 70 goals in 73 games... As a kid, I started watching the Blues after this stretch. I didn't even realize he had seasons like this, until I was an adult, and despite that... I couldn't envision how he could be any better of a goal scorer when he was "just scoring 50+." When it came to scoring, the guy was so close to perfection that it really makes no sense to slander the guy, because NO ONE could be that much better than him...

Put some respect on the son... Even when Gretzky played on the Blues, whether older or not, not only was I talking Hull over him every day, but the next season? Give me Turgeon, too. Preference or not, not a huge difference then. Losing Hull was a bigger hit than losing Gretzky...

 

[amnesiac]

Hull played with Gretzky, Lemieux and Jagr. 3 of the greatest offensive players in Hockey history. Going to be hard to top those players. Ovi has easier competition to deal with. Yes Gretzky and Lemieux are way better than Mcdavid and Draisytl

Hull was top 3 in goals 4 times vs Ovie 11 times. So thats not an argument.

as I mentioned in my last post, Gretzky was not the goalscorer he was during Hull's prime (89-97 or so), Hull was beaten out by guys like Selanne/Mogilny, Bure, Mario once, Tkachuk, and Bondra twice. Hull then never scored 40+ after 96-97.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

How many hits did Brett Hull throw out?

I can tell you the first fight he ever got in was against Dave Gagner. Can't remember exactly what year, doesn't matter. What does matter is that despite clearly dropping the gloves and exchanging several punches, he (and Gagner) only got a double minor for it.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Both of them also have 1 Stanley Cup to their name, which they got late, but not very late, into their careers.

Didn’t hull win in Detroit 2002 as well?

 

[BlueBull]

TMW You forget Hull won a cup in 02, and you post out that he won 1 cup instead of 2.

 

[DCRedhawk21]

Hull played with Gretzky, Lemieux and Jagr. 3 of the greatest offensive players in Hockey history. Going to be hard to top those players. Ovi has easier competition to deal with. Yes Gretzky and Lemieux are way better than Mcdavid and Draisytl

I think it’s fair to add caveats for Gretzky, Mario, and Jagr - but look at the top 5/10 goal and point finishes. It’s hard to argue that ovechkin isn’t more comparatively dominant than hull was. And while he doesn’t compete against 99 and 66, it isn’t like ovechkin has run roughshod over a league of scrubs these days.

I think time will add perpsective to ovechkins accomplishments and career when he retires with over 800 goals and no one else comes close to that for a long time. Less than 10 active players have over 400 career goals and only one other has over 500 (and Marleau is on his last legs). Ovechkin has 724 - and is still good.

 

[Spektre]

It's pretty humorous to me how little respect Hull seems to get. It makes no sense, to me, that anytime you hear Hull, they're always talking about his dad. The guy had freaking 86 goals in a season. How many goals would you expect the "perfect goal scorer" to get? 31 goals more than second place? That's insane. Brett Hull was flat out money.

Think about this. Over a 3 season stretch, Brett Hull scored 228 goals in 231 games and had 353 points. He lost his goal per game... during that third season where he had... wait for it... 70 goals in 73 games... As a kid, I started watching the Blues after this stretch. I didn't even realize he had seasons like this, until I was an adult, and despite that... I couldn't envision how he could be any better of a goal scorer when he was "just scoring 50+." When it came to scoring, the guy was so close to perfection that it really makes no sense to slander the guy, because NO ONE could be that much better than him...

Put some respect on the son... Even when Gretzky played on the Blues, whether older or not, not only was I talking Hull over him every day, but the next season? Give me Turgeon, too. Preference or not, not a huge difference then. Losing Hull was a bigger hit than losing Gretzky...

The short version is team Canada snubbed Brett so he played for USA the rest of his career. Canadian fans booed him all the time and have always held a grudge. The fans should have been mad at the management who snubbed him but oh well...

I’m a billion % sure had played for a Canadian team (as well as team Canada) he would get a lot more hype

 

[Esq]

If he's out of the box it ain't shorthanded.

Damn straight. :|

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Hull was a very good goal scorer. But I think he's much more comparable to Stamkos.

OV is a tier above.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

You mean Ovie is gonna have a Noma GT Snow Racer now like Brett Hull had this bad boy in the 90’s....

 

[MessierII]

I’ve watched both and Ovy is way better than Hull. Hull was as one dimensional as one dimensional gets. Ovy can actually skate, hit, forecheck, complete the odd nice pass. Hull happened to play with the perfect line mate to compliment his one dimension. He then moved on to a stacked team in Dallas and played triggerman on the PP. The guy couldn’t make it work with Gretzky. Ovy creates on his own. Different tier of player.