Why Ovi is actually Brett Hull

Mikeshane

Registered User
Jan 15, 2013
6,175
3,923
From a goal scoring perspective Hull and Ovechkin are probably the closest comparables. It's no coincidence that both have an obvious genetic strength advantage over most other players.
 

pi314

Registered User
Jun 10, 2017
1,079
2,211
Windsor, ON
love Backstrom, but hes not the 2nd greatest playmaker in hockey history (or 3rd if you want to argue)

Look at Neely's numbers with Oates if you care to see (had his 50 in 44 season). Hell, Oates was having 70 assist seasons at the peak of the DPE at age 38-39 with the Capitals of all teams. Think about that.

I've been told around these parts that playmakers don't do anything and only goals count.
 

gamer1035

Registered User
Feb 14, 2012
4,191
878
So Hull only finished as the top goal scorer in the league 3 times?

We seriously comparing that to Ovi? Dude's dad was a better comparison. I understand boomers like to shit on the current generation by pretending theirs was the best, but come on. Your inflated stats era was inflated.
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
29,604
21,716
Evanston, IL
Some might say with wood sticks and all the clutching/grabbing and general abuse that no longer exists that players today have something of an advantage.:dunno:

Tough to say.
At scoring goals? It's not tough at all to say. We have numbers showing that there were considerably more goals scored per season in the 90s. Every year Hull scored 50+ goals would have been the highest scoring season since the dead puck era.
 

Iapyi

Registered User
Apr 19, 2017
5,072
2,361
Canadian Prairies
Depends on how you define "all around player" because Ovechkin is a physical specimen. He throws his weight around (perhaps less now than he used to) the way a true power forward does.

I certainly don't disagree with this. Once he stopped laying out the dirty hits it was far better.
 

Iapyi

Registered User
Apr 19, 2017
5,072
2,361
Canadian Prairies
in what universe was Hull a good defensive player?

and yeah, Im pretty sure we all know Ovie was 100 times more physical than Hull ever was. I would say Hull was more 1-dimensional than Ovie, for sure.

Who said he was? Maybe re-read my post you quoted.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,409
10,436
People saying Hull played in a higher scoring era, forget that almost half his career was in the dead puck era. And I'd argue his 86 goal campaign in 78 games beats Ovies 65. But pretty similar peaks. Ovie was off course a much more dominant player overall during his peak, and his longevity is better.

The era was much higher scoring, but the 2nd place goal scorer had 51 goals and Hull had 86 in 78 games. in 2007-08 2nd place had 52, and Ovechkin played the full 82.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,409
10,436
love Backstrom, but hes not the 2nd greatest playmaker in hockey history (or 3rd if you want to argue)

Look at Neely's numbers with Oates if you care to see (had his 50 in 44 season). Hell, Oates was having 70 assist seasons at the peak of the DPE at age 38-39 with the Capitals of all teams. Think about that.

Neither was Oates. He doesn't have a single argument for being a better playmaker than Lemieux, Gretzky and Orr.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
Was looking at the all-time scoring leaders list and noticed Ovechkin’s numbers are eerily similar to Brett Hull’s. The difference between them is Hull has 82 more points in 64 more games (17 more goals). Considering Ovechkin has been at just under a p/pg for the past couple seasons (this one included) I figure at 1’249 games played (Hull’s total) Ovi will have about 25 less points and about 25-30 more goals. At state line that looks like this;

Brett 1’249 - 741 - 650 - 1’391
Alex 1’249 - 754 - 615 - 1’369

More interestingly, of their goal totals to date, they break down as such.

Brett 456 ESG - 265 PPG - 20 SHG
Alex 456 ESG - 264 PPG - 4 SHG

And have similar GWG’s with Hull at 110 and Ovechkin at 116.

Finally, Hull went 11 seasons not being near 100pts after he last hit the mark. Ovechkin is now in his 11th season since he last got near 100pts.

TLDR: This isn’t a serious deep dive, but they do have some serious similarities.
They always have been very similar.
Good post
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
in what universe was Hull a good defensive player?

and yeah, Im pretty sure we all know Ovie was 100 times more physical than Hull ever was. I would say Hull was more 1-dimensional than Ovie, for sure.
Hull got better defensively when he got to Dallas under Hitchcock. He took that to Detroit too.
It was in St Louis that he was all about offense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sentinel

Cotton

Registered User
May 13, 2013
9,120
5,611
At scoring goals? It's not tough at all to say. We have numbers showing that there were considerably more goals scored per season in the 90s. Every year Hull scored 50+ goals would have been the highest scoring season since the dead puck era.

“I can’t shoot the puck”



:dunno:
 

jetsforever

Registered User
Dec 14, 2013
27,202
23,057
Most interesting part of this thread is the use of apostrophes as thousands-separators (1'000) :sarcasm:
 

BackToTheBasics

Registered User
Dec 26, 2013
3,815
776
OvechkinHull
Rockets9 (and counting)3
Top 3 in Goals11 (and counting)4
Top 5 in Goals13 (and counting)4
Top 10 in Goals14 (and counting)8
Hart Trophies31
Hart Trophy Finalist53
Art Ross10
Top 3 in Points51
Top 10 in Points83
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I suppose the answer is a hard no on this one.
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
29,604
21,716
Evanston, IL
“I can’t shoot the puck”



:dunno:

Again, we have numbers showing that considerably more goals were scored per game in those seasons. It's not tough to say whether it was more difficult to score goals in those seasons when we have evidence that teams scored way more goals in those seasons. Shots per game was about the same, while save percentage was much lower.
 
  • Like
Reactions: saffronleaf

Statto

Registered User
Sponsor
May 9, 2014
4,888
6,648
OvechkinHull
Rockets9 (and counting)3
Top 3 in Goals11 (and counting)4
Top 5 in Goals13 (and counting)4
Top 10 in Goals14 (and counting)8
Hart Trophies31
Hart Trophy Finalist53
Art Ross10
Top 3 in Points51
Top 10 in Points83
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I suppose the answer is a hard no on this one.
Comparing trophy counts when Hull played through the Gretzky/Lemieux era doesn’t really make sense. You’re talking about the most dominant players of all time so it was unusual for anyone else to get a look in.

In any case, I don’t really agree that they are ‘the same player’ because apart from being prolific scorers the rest of their games were quite different.
 

TeeTee

Registered User
Apr 20, 2016
427
456
Yeah this isn't a great comparison. Hull was a one-dimensional player who had his best seasons in a seriously inflated scoring era. He was great at what he did, no doubt, but he benefitted from the era and elite setup men. He is probably the most overrated player of all time. A better comparable for Hull is Laine.

Ovechkin is just a far more rounded player who has a much greater impact on his team. I would also say he's even better than Hull at the one thing Hull did well - goal scoring. In fact, accounting for eras it's not even close.

A much more well rounded player? I may have to disagree with this.
 

amnesiac

Space Oddity
Jul 10, 2010
13,599
7,362
Montreal
Comparing trophy counts when Hull played through the Gretzky/Lemieux era doesn’t really make sense. You’re talking about the most dominant players of all time so it was unusual for anyone else to get a look in.

In any case, I don’t really agree that they are ‘the same player’ because apart from being prolific scorers the rest of their games were quite different.
thats why the table indicates top 3, 5, and 10, of which Ovie obliterates him.

And who are these "best players of all-time" that were beating Hull for the Rocket exactly? Hull was only 4 times Top 3 in goals compared to Ovie's 11. Not exactly close. AT ALL.

Hull's peak and prime was not when Gretzky was winning the "rocket" every year in the 80s either, so you can throw out that argument.
 
Last edited:

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->