Why no love for Okposo (still) ?

[Seph]

Tavares doesn't take off half a season, or more pretty much every year like Kyle. He has bad stretches like many good players. It is a consistency thing so go ahead and declare my argument invalid all you want. We've seen Kyle down and up, and the one thing he has been consistent at is being inconsistent.


Your post was in reference to Kyle, in a Kyle Okposo thread, and you did compare Tavares as being just as inconsistent.

My post was in response to your poor argument. Nowhere did I say Tavares was just as inconsistent as Okposo, you're making things up again. I just said Tavares had never achieved the standard you were setting for Okposo, which was an entire season of consistent play.

Fair on saying it wasn't most, though 2 goals and 9 pts total over 27 games which is more than half the season is pretty awful, but it was also accompanied by a continuation of the contact free play which dogged him since the big injury.

I don't see where I am being silly or unfair or disingenuous in asking to see a fairly consistent season first. Let me ask you, do you think he has been consistently good prior to the start of this year?

Okposo played 54 games last year. So if you want to say Okposo was bad for the first 27, that is exactly half the season. Which yes, is quibbling, but if you're going to use a 3 game swing to say more than half, we're already quibbling. But again, that's not really my point here.

It's silly, unfair and disingenuous to expect a player to play an entire season at a high level without a poor stretch. A healthy Crosby does that, and... Well, that's about it, these days, really. A player can have a bad stretch or two during a season and still be a good player, or have a good season. That's my point. I don't really care whether or not you think Okposo has had an overall good season in the past, but I do think saying because a player has had a bad stretch of play every season means they're a bad player is a crap argument. Until you explain why it's a valid argument, all you're doing is creating straw men.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Okiposo was supposed to be one of the main reasons we would become a dynasty once again...well at least that was newsdays and wangs sales pitch for a few years...75% of the islander fans bought it also for a number of years..

You can say that about any young player. That's on the fans, who're filling in the blanks with "potential".

 

[blinkman360]

Okiposo was supposed to be one of the main reasons we would become a dynasty once again...well at least that was newsdays and wangs sales pitch for a few years...75% of the islander fans bought it also for a number of years. SO 6 years later...20 years since we won a playoff round...its fair to say Okiposo is part of the problem rather then part of the answer. Honestly, to me, every player on this team is part of the problem rather then the answer other then Hamanic, martin, and Tavares. In other words every other player has significant flaws that bother the hell out of me. On a good or great team, you don't need perfect players..but when you aint winning cups, they are now part of the problem.

Wow. Okposo is part of the problem? He didn't seem like part of the problem during last year's playoff run. If anything, he was one of the few parts of the solution. Kyle is still what..? Only 25? 26? He's just entering his prime, and with the steps he's taken last year and this year I have no idea why anyone would want him gone at this point. At worst he looks like a 50-60 point player. A guy who can provide key secondary scoring. A guy with heart, who isn't afraid to mix it up and get his hands dirty. We need more guys like that, not less.

Question: do you think you have to be a superstar to be considered a part of the future here? You didn't list Cizikas.. is he a problem? Nielsen? Bailey? Grabner? These are all key young players who we should be building around, not shipping out. To call these guys(as well as Okposo) "part of the problem" just seems completely ridiculous.

Tavares doesn't take off half a season, or more pretty much every year like Kyle. He has bad stretches like many good players. It is a consistency thing so go ahead and declare my argument invalid all you want. We've seen Kyle down and up, and the one thing he has been consistent at is being inconsistent.


Your post was in reference to Kyle, in a Kyle Okposo thread, and you did compare Tavares as being just as inconsistent.


Fair on saying it wasn't most, though 2 goals and 9 pts total over 27 games which is more than half the season is pretty awful, but it was also accompanied by a continuation of the contact free play which dogged him since the big injury.

I don't see where I am being silly or unfair or disingenuous in asking to see a fairly consistent season first. Let me ask you, do you think he has been consistently good prior to the start of this year?

APS, I'm generally a big fan of your posts, but I'm ripping the hair out of my head reading your posts in this thread. You said something along the lines of "when has Okposo been consistently good over a full season?", and Seph responded by saying that no one on our team, even Tavares, could make that claim. Nowhere in that response did he indicate that Tavares has been just as inconsistent as Okposo.

He was only pointing out that the criteria is flawed. Implying that we can't build around a player who hasn't had a season where he was consistently good from game 1 to game 82 would mean that there are currently zero players on this team that we can build around.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

APS, I'm generally a big fan of your posts, but I'm ripping the hair out of my head reading your posts in this thread. You said something along the lines of "when has Okposo been consistently good over a full season?", and Seph responded by saying that no one on our team, even Tavares, could make that claim. Nowhere in that response did he indicate that Tavares has been just as inconsistent as Okposo.

He was only pointing out that the criteria is flawed. Implying that we can't build around a player who hasn't had a season where he was consistently good from game 1 to game 82 would mean that there are currently zero players on this team that we can build around.

Then it is a difference in definitions of "consistent." Some players on this club in particular seem to have a cold first half, culminating in our December death slump, whereas others tend to have mere spurts of poor play mixed in throughout the season. Streit was famous for this, hibernating for the first half most years, then waking up for the second. IMO, he's not with us any longer in part because of that. I don't expect non stop production from Okposo, but I would like to see him have more intermixed good and bad spells. I think he can do it, otherwise I would not be disappointed that he doesn't, and I am frustrated that he hasn't. Does that make some sense? This club has an enormous problem with Oct through Jan 1 every damn year, and it is in part because the same core guys all go silent around the same time every year. Coaching plays into this as well, but we have a thread for that. Does that help at all?

And thanks for the compliment. I always enjoy our back and forths as well whether we disagree or not.

 

[Goombha]

KO is playing well, imagine that!

 

[PK Cronin]

KO is playing well, imagine that!

He's simplified his game and simplified it even more with Vanek coming here.

Do we see him try and toe drag anymore? How about trying to do any moves around defenders? Nope. And that was a massive flaw in his game.

He's still a poor passer and doesn't have great hands, but he doesn't need them right now (which is fine, not all players can have everything).

 

[islesfan186]

He turns the puck over 10-15 times a game and can't pass or shoot worth a damn.

I would like him as our 3rd liner...i absolutely hate him as a first liner and is one of the main reasons our top line sucks this year.

you mean the only line thats doing the scoring? lol

 

[PK Cronin]

you mean the only line thats doing the scoring? lol

To be fair, the top line was the only line that scored last season without Okposo on it. And now there is Vanek on the top as well, which is quite the improvement over Moulson.

 

[islesfan186]

To be fair, the top line was the only line that scored last season without Okposo on it. And now there is Vanek on the top as well, which is quite the improvement over Moulson.

true, but they don't suck. I think Okposo is playing fine. He might not be a 1st liner, but for right now, he's finding ways to get on the scoresheet and I'll take that. He is finally playing at a consistant level
Not having some defenseman with any offensive talent in the line up hurts every line as well.
now Bailey needs to wake up

 

[19NYSports91]

He's simplified his game and simplified it even more with Vanek coming here.

Do we see him try and toe drag anymore? How about trying to do any moves around defenders? Nope. And that was a massive flaw in his game.

He's still a poor passer and doesn't have great hands, but he doesn't need them right now (which is fine, not all players can have everything).

Do poor passers make the kind of passes that Okposo made yesterday? I don't think so. The pass to JT up the middle with stride was a great pass and then also the first goal to Vanek. He's not a great passer, but he's no where near a poor one.

 

[PK Cronin]

Do poor passers make the kind of passes that Okposo made yesterday? I don't think so. The pass to JT up the middle with stride was a great pass and then also the first goal to Vanek. He's not a great passer, but he's no where near a poor one.

He goofs a lot more historically than succeeds. Historically he's been a poor passer, passing behind or into players' feet when trying to hit open people.

He's been better of late.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I think he's been more effective since the team got Vanek. He doesn't have to worry about making plays all the time. He's been keeping it simple and chipping it in the corner and playing north/south hockey. He's making plays when they're there to make, not trying to do it every time he gets the puck.

 

[blitzkriegs]

I think he's been more effective since the team got Vanek. He doesn't have to worry about making plays all the time. He's been keeping it simple and chipping it in the corner and playing north/south hockey. He's making plays when they're there to make, not trying to do it every time he gets the puck.

So, when the talent level on the team increases, the rest of the players can play their game and possibly excel, rather than overcompensate for the teams weaknesses and take on too much? Hmm...

Another reason Wangers plan of spending minimal money hurts the team long term.

 

[PK Cronin]

So, when the talent level on the team increases, the rest of the players can play their game and possibly excel, rather than overcompensate for the teams weaknesses and take on too much? Hmm...

Another reason Wangers plan of spending minimal money hurts the team long term.

Now apply that logic to the other lines as well, especially Grabner and Bailey. They'd produce if they were put in the right situation.

 

[RMimagery]

true, but they don't suck. I think Okposo is playing fine. He might not be a 1st liner, but for right now, he's finding ways to get on the scoresheet and I'll take that. He is finally playing at a consistant level
Not having some defenseman with any offensive talent in the line up hurts every line as well.
now Bailey needs to wake up

If he's not a first liner, there's only about 5 top RW's out of 30 with better production now...

 

[Goombha]

If he's not a first liner, there's only about 5 top RW's out of 30 with better production now...

So? It's truly bewildering, isn't it? Imagine if he keeps improving, what then? I now see why so many outsiders mock Islanders fans, lol.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

He's simplified his game and simplified it even more with Vanek coming here.

Do we see him try and toe drag anymore? How about trying to do any moves around defenders? Nope. And that was a massive flaw in his game.

He's still a poor passer and doesn't have great hands, but he doesn't need them right now (which is fine, not all players can have everything).

Those are relatively small adjustments though bad habits can be hard to break. The biggest thing for me is he has been consistently physically engaged. Injuries and some mental hurdles seemed like they had him less involved in contact. He goes headfirst into the high contact zones this year, and his game has improved significantly.

Of course, how many games yet to go? Can he keep it up? That will be the bell weather, IMO. He's had a great first half though. I wish some of the others would figure it out.

 

[2ndGenIslander]

He's simplified his game and simplified it even more with Vanek coming here.

Do we see him try and toe drag anymore? How about trying to do any moves around defenders? Nope. And that was a massive flaw in his game.

He's still a poor passer and doesn't have great hands, but he doesn't need them right now (which is fine, not all players can have everything).

haha the toe drag was all he ever tried to do, im glad he eliminated it from his game, or will only be using it in situations that make sense

 

[Strome18]

OK this thread brought me way back.

 

[Moosie]

Okposo has been our most consistently good player all season. He does benefit from playing with Tavares, but Kyle does a lot of the work on that line. He's going to Sochi, because he deserves to go.

 

[PWJunior]

Those are relatively small adjustments though bad habits can be hard to break. The biggest thing for me is he has been consistently physically engaged. Injuries and some mental hurdles seemed like they had him less involved in contact. He goes headfirst into the high contact zones this year, and his game has improved significantly.

Of course, how many games yet to go? Can he keep it up? That will be the bell weather, IMO. He's had a great first half though. I wish some of the others would figure it out.

Tavares has rubbed off on KO. KO is winning more puck battles and has really improved in his puck possession. He is still going in head first, but that's because he's using it now rather than being a bull in a china shop. He's using his body more effectively than he ever has and has added a lot more finesse to his game. Actually, he looks very JT-esque with all the stop, turns, and rolling off contact. He's slowed things down and simplified, he's playing to his strengths and it's paying dividends.

 

[duster19]

To be fair, the top line was the only line that scored last season without Okposo on it. And now there is Vanek on the top as well, which is quite the improvement over Moulson.

I think grabs was on pace for thirty and he played with Colin mc and aucoin mostly...

 

[Felix Unger]

Tavares has rubbed off on KO. KO is winning more puck battles and has really improved in his puck possession. He is still going in head first, but that's because he's using it now rather than being a bull in a china shop. He's using his body more effectively than he ever has and has added a lot more finesse to his game. Actually, he looks very JT-esque with all the stop, turns, and rolling off contact. He's slowed things down and simplified, he's playing to his strengths and it's paying dividends.

It's true. It's also true that Okposo is a complimentary player. He's a skilled grinder who makes room for other guys, and takes the load off them defensively. The idea that you make a top line by playing 3 "top line" players together is seriously outdated. That just doesn't happen any more.

I'm not saying that KO's season is a product of playing with JT. But I do think that KO would have much less consistent production playing with anyone else. After all, it's easier to win 1 on 1 battles with JT lurking than 2 on 1 battles with Josh Bailey lurking.

 

[IslanderPride]

Okposo has been our most consistently good player all season. He does benefit from playing with Tavares, but Kyle does a lot of the work on that line. He's going to Sochi, because he deserves to go.

Found this on Twitter

 

[LeapOnOver]

Then it is a difference in definitions of "consistent." Some players on this club in particular seem to have a cold first half, culminating in our December death slump, whereas others tend to have mere spurts of poor play mixed in throughout the season. Streit was famous for this, hibernating for the first half most years, then waking up for the second. IMO, he's not with us any longer in part because of that. I don't expect non stop production from Okposo, but I would like to see him have more intermixed good and bad spells. I think he can do it, otherwise I would not be disappointed that he doesn't, and I am frustrated that he hasn't. Does that make some sense? This club has an enormous problem with Oct through Jan 1 every damn year, and it is in part because the same core guys all go silent around the same time every year. Coaching plays into this as well, but we have a thread for that. Does that help at all?

And thanks for the compliment. I always enjoy our back and forths as well whether we disagree or not.

I agree with you that Okposo USED to be that type of player. Bailey ALWAYS is, but Streit? He had one season like that and it was coming off a major injury that caused him to miss a full season. I don't really think it's fair lumping him into that category. The only one that deserves to still be there is Bailey. In fact, Bailey has moved from being inconsistent to just consistently bad. Sometimes I think you just have short term memory APS. Just because the last time Streit played for us that seemed to be the case he wasn't like that pre-injury.