Why isn't Pierre Turgeon in the HHOF

[Machinehead]

A high-scoring era likely plays against him, but I think he deserves it.

 

[Sansbacon]

You messed with powers beyond your comprehension.

Hey, I was 5... and f*** him

 

[Machinehead]

Because when I asked him for an autograph after a Sabres practice at Sabreland when I was a wee 5 year old, he looked at me like I was covered in boogers and ****, and merely walked past me with a hateful darkness in his eyes like a monster. I went home that night and prayed to the hockey gods in Buffalo that he never achieve any great success, and certainly never obtain a seat in the HOF.

For this, the gods demanded, and I agreed that the city of Buffalo may come close, but shall never win a championship throughout its existence.

Sorry Buffalo, but I remain satisfied.

Next time you talk to the gods, tell Gretz I said hi.

 

[Canucks1096]

Because he didn't come off the bench and join the big fight in the 1987 wjc vs Russia

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

When your biggest career highlight (or what you are known for today) is not even because of you, you don't deserve to be in the HHOF period.

 

[NHL WAR]

Doesn't help his case that he bounced from team to team. I think if he played his whole career with one team ( especially an Original 6 team) he would get brought up a lot more.

 

[sabremike]

You can make a very strong argument he would have that cup if not for being the victim of the filthiest, dirtiest, most vile, repulsive cowardly act in modern NHL history. Not only should Hunter have been kicked of the league for that he should still be locked away in a Nassau County jail.

 

[Captain Bowie]

He absolutely should be in.

Usually the arguments against him are that he doesn't have a ton of awards and no cup. I don't want to see the word compiler here.

He has NO awards or hardware of any kind*. Not even a single All-Star selection. He was an elite-ish player for maybe 4 seasons.


*One Lady Byng... yay.

 

[crowi]

He should be in at this point IMO. He clearly was a very special player in the league (even when Dale Hunter didn't hit him while he was celebrating a goal).

 

[Captain Bowie]

He should be in at this point IMO. He clearly was a very special player in the league (even when Dale Hunter didn't hit him while he was celebrating a goal).

What was so special about him? He was never among the 4 or 5 best players at any point. He didn't have a particularly special peak, during his best stretch of hockey (90-96) he was outside the top 10 in PPG. Only a 5th and 7th place finish in scoring, no top 5's in goals or assists.

To compare that to someone from the last 7 years of hockey, he'd compare closely to a guy like Tyler Seguin (who actually has a few more top 10 finishes). Seguin has a lot of work to do to be considered a Hall of Fame player. Turgeon didn't age spectacularily, he was done as a top line player shortly after the age of 30, and added just 4 more season of decent hockey after that (as a 40-point player in the DPE).

 

[Spazkat]

The soft part but also he peaked in arguably the deepest era in the nhl for top talent (for example never got a team canada spot and only played in 4 All stars game and never cracked top 5 in center one season).

Only 2 top 10 in points without bringing much else, he seem a really good step below say a Marian Hossa

This pretty much. Circles back to "is it a Hall of Fame or just a Hall of Very Good"

 

[sabremike]

What was so special about him? He was never among the 4 or 5 best players at any point. He didn't have a particularly special peak, during his best stretch of hockey (90-96) he was outside the top 10 in PPG. Only a 5th and 7th place finish in scoring, no top 5's in goals or assists.

To compare that to someone from the last 7 years of hockey, he'd compare closely to a guy like Tyler Seguin (who actually has a few more top 10 finishes). Seguin has a lot of work to do to be considered a Hall of Fame player. Turgeon didn't age spectacularily, he was done as a top line player shortly after the age of 30, and added just 4 more season of decent hockey after that (as a 40-point player in the DPE).

Besides the longevity you could say that about my all time childhood hero Ron Francis as well and nobody would be stupid enough to say he doesn't belong in the Hall.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Besides the longevity you could say that about my all time childhood hero Ron Francis as well and nobody would be stupid enough to say he doesn't belong in the Hall.

Well, as you mentioned, he has the longevity factor over Turgeon, and he was also a premier defensive player for most of his career, something Turgeon couldn't even begin to claim in the slightest. He also had more top 10 scoring finishes and lead the league in assists multiple times. He also factored heavily in 2 Stanley Cup wins.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Because when I asked him for an autograph after a Sabres practice at Sabreland when I was a wee 5 year old, he looked at me like I was covered in boogers and ****, and merely walked past me with a hateful darkness in his eyes like a monster. I went home that night and prayed to the hockey gods in Buffalo that he never achieve any great success, and certainly never obtain a seat in the HOF.

For this, the gods demanded, and I agreed, that the city of Buffalo may come close, but shall never win a championship throughout its existence.

Sorry Buffalo, but I remain satisfied.

If he ever comes back to STL for an autograph signing I am going to print out a screenshot of your post and make him sign it.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I saw Pierre an HHOF and my eyes and brain thought McGuire and I was going to ask seriously?

 

[Sansbacon]

If he ever comes back to STL for an autograph signing I am going to print out a screenshot of your post and make him sign it.

I want a signature AND an apology so I can stop sleeping with a nightlite on...

 

[MadLuke]

Well, as you mentioned, he has the longevity factor over Turgeon, and he was also a premier defensive player for most of his career, something Turgeon couldn't even begin to claim in the slightest. He also had more top 10 scoring finishes and lead the league in assists multiple times. He also factored heavily in 2 Stanley Cup wins.

yup those many selke vote and one win, 4 time he received Hart vote verus only one time for Turgeon, he was Top 3 among Center 3 time versus none for Turgeon in the all star ballot, 5 top 10 vs 2.

There is quite more than just longevity between them, playoff success, better prime, elite 2 ways play and so on.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Doesn't mean they deserved to get in. Both those guys basically got in for political reasons. Modano for being all-timer American point leader, and Sundin for being a Toronto fan favourite. If Modano was Slovakian and Sundin played for Anaheim, would be different.

What are you talking about? Sundin was a stand out player and was scary consistent through his entire career. Especially in the DPE.

Modano was the same except with a better defensive game. Their nationalities definitely helped, but their stats and accolades are definitely HOF worthy.

Turgeon had that one monster season with some great ones. He was very consistent, but not at a very high level. Wouldn’t call him a compiler....

He just wasn’t that much of a standout when he was playing. I mean there is a reason why he has been passed up so many times. But to compare him to Modano and Sundin in regards to his worthiness is silly.

 

[Neutrinos]

Well, as you mentioned, he has the longevity factor over Turgeon, and he was also a premier defensive player for most of his career, something Turgeon couldn't even begin to claim in the slightest. He also had more top 10 scoring finishes and lead the league in assists multiple times. He also factored heavily in 2 Stanley Cup wins.

During Francis' best offensive season when he lead the league in assists and finished with 119 points, he was a distant 3rd on his own team in scoring behind Lemieux's 161 points and Jagr's 149

Turgeon's best season he finished with 132 points - which lead his team by 45!

Kinda makes you wonder what Turgeon could've accomplished had he been lucky enough to play alongside the 2 greatest offensive players from the last 25 years

 

[deckercky]

What are you talking about? Sundin was a stand out player and was scary consistent through his entire career. Especially in the DPE.

The only things distinguishing Sundin from Turgeon are playing for Toronto and international play. Sundin was actually less consistent than Turgeon. International play is a real point though.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The only things distinguishing Sundin from Turgeon are playing for Toronto and international play. Sundin was actually less consistent than Turgeon. International play is a real point though.

I’m sure that helped, but Sundin was still way more consistent. He might not have had the highs that Turgeon had, but overall he was an overall PPG player playing a majority of his prime in a lower scoring era, being a two time second team AS center. Turgeon never distinguished himself as a player or center. Sundin maintained a higher level of player for a lot longer. After ‘93, he was inconsistent and dealing with injuries from time to time.

 

[Captain Bowie]

During Francis' best offensive season when he lead the league in assists and finished with 119 points, he was a distant 3rd on his own team in scoring behind Lemieux's 161 points and Jagr's 149

Turgeon's best season he finished with 132 points - which lead his team by 45!

Kinda makes you wonder what Turgeon could've accomplished had he been lucky enough to play alongside the 2 greatest offensive players from the last 25 years

I would respond with 2 things:

1) It takes more than one season to make a HoF career.

2) We can't really induct players based on "could have" and "would have"'s

 

[MadLuke]

The only things distinguishing Sundin from Turgeon are playing for Toronto and international play. Sundin was actually less consistent than Turgeon. International play is a real point though.

Sundin is arguably the most consistent forward ever in offensive production on some consistency metric he is way ahead of the pack in a significant way than every other player in the league history.

remove is last and first 2 seasons, All of Sundins nhl season is career were between 76 and 97 adjusted points, until is last season missed more than 8 games once, 12 games in 05-06.

That is almost all is career scoring an average 84 adjusted point, +/-10 points, Sundin is a phenomenom consistency speaking.

In comparison Turgeon if you remove is last and first 2 season, goes between 45 and 106 adjusted points, he is quite something and very PPG consistent but unlike Sundin he was often playing under 70 games and stopped is PPG like type of production at 32 vs at 37 for Sundin.

 

[Neutrinos]

I would respond with 2 things:

1) It takes more than one season to make a HoF career.

2) We can't really induct players based on "could have" and "would have"'s

1) Take away his best season and he still has 1195 points in 1211 games

2) I never said we should be. The point was to show that Turgeon was a better offensive player than Francis, not give him credit for something he didn't do

 

[Captain Bowie]

1) Take away his best season and he still has 1195 points in 1211 games

2) I never said we should be. The point was to show that Turgeon was a better offensive player than Francis, not give him credit for something he didn't do

That's not overly impressive. He's only 9th in scoring over the span of his career. For PPG he's all the way down at 20th.

Majority of his scoring was done from 88-96, and especially high scoring era. However in that era he does not fare any better against his competition.