Why isn't Pierre Turgeon in the hall of fame?

[Passchendaele]

Turgeon is seen as a ***** (female genital). In the NHL that's the worst sin ever. I don't think any player type gets less respect than those guys do. The borderline useless 4th line energy guy who sticks for like half a season gets more respect. Turgeon is a good trial case for defining the line where scoring prowess can outweigh perceived softness because he's clearly not over it in spite of the points he amassed. You basically need to be an Art Ross kinda guy to get past it.

Not looking to stir **** up here, but how would the Sedins compare to Turgeon in that regard?

 

[rfournier103]

Not looking to stir **** up here, but how would the Sedins compare to Turgeon in that regard?

The Sedins to my knowledge never left a teammate to be double teamed and beaten to a pulp.

Soft?

Yes.

Cowardly?

Certainly not on Turgeon’s level.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not looking to stir **** up here, but how would the Sedins compare to Turgeon in that regard?

for better or worse, daniel sedin refrained from fighting back against brad marchand in the finals. did he hide, run away, etc? no, he took the punches assuming, foolishly given how that series had been going, that the ref would call the penalty. as rfournier says above, not remotely the same thing as turgeon.

henrik sedin once amputated part of his finger to not miss the rest of a game. those two definitely had the respect of their teammates. not the case for 18 year old turgeon, though i can’t speak for his relationship with his teammates during his nhl career.

 

[c9777666]

Kariya made the HHOF and Turgeon had better numbers, was less injury prone, more durable, played longer, had a bigger peak.........

Although is Kariya viewed more favorably by his peers?

 

[Newsworthy]

The Sedins to my knowledge never left a teammate to be double teamed and beaten to a pulp.

Soft?

Yes.

Cowardly?

Certainly not on Turgeon’s level.

None of this is a factor on whether a player should be selected to the Hall of Fame.

 

[c9777666]

Would Turgeon be 1st or 2nd team center on the HFBoards All Polarizing Team?

He and Housley- ironically former teammates- are VERY much interesting figures of discussion on the history of hockey.

 

[The Panther]

I can't believe how long this thread is.


"The History of Hockey-Should-Turgeon-be-a-Hall-of-Famer Forum".

 

[kaiser matias]

for better or worse, daniel sedin refrained from fighting back against brad marchand in the finals. did he hide, run away, etc? no, he took the punches assuming, foolishly given how that series had been going, that the ref would call the penalty. as rfournier says above, not remotely the same thing as turgeon.

henrik sedin once amputated part of his finger to not miss the rest of a game. those two definitely had the respect of their teammates. not the case for 18 year old turgeon, though i can’t speak for his relationship with his teammates during his nhl career.

For the record, Marchand did get a penalty there, a 2 minute roughing call and a 10 minute misconduct. Though of course Daniel also got a misconduct (as did Shawn Thornton and Maxim Lapierre), so it kind of balanced out, but a penalty was called.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

For the record, Marchand did get a penalty there, a 2 minute roughing call and a 10 minute misconduct. Though of course Daniel also got a misconduct (as did Shawn Thornton and Maxim Lapierre), so it kind of balanced out, but a penalty was called.

fair enough, i guess i should have said he assumed the ref would call the penalty within a reasonable timeframe, before things got totally out of hand.

 

[kaiser matias]

fair enough, i guess i should have said he assumed the ref would call the penalty within a reasonable timeframe, before things got totally out of hand.

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I'm still nominally a Canucks fan and felt the punching went on a little long. Though also thing Daniel could have done something. I mean there was 90 seconds left in the game, couldn't hurt worse than a few punches to the face.

 

[c9777666]

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I'm still nominally a Canucks fan and felt the punching went on a little long. Though also thing Daniel could have done something. I mean there was 90 seconds left in the game, couldn't hurt worse than a few punches to the face.

Part of me thought Marchand might get suspended a game for that.

 

[Mike8]

Kariya made the HHOF and Turgeon had better numbers, was less injury prone, more durable, played longer, had a bigger peak.........

Although is Kariya viewed more favorably by his peers?

Kariya had the better peak quite clearly, I think.

 

[frisco]

Kariya had the better peak quite clearly, I think.

In Kariya's best five seasons he averaged 94.8 points. Turgeon's five best were an average of 103.4 points per season. There might be an era adjustment but it is hard to see Kariya "quite clearly" better in their peak seasons.

My Best-Carey

 

[Mike8]

In Kariya's best five seasons he averaged 94.8 points. Turgeon's five best were an average of 103.4 points per season. There might be an era adjustment but it is hard to see Kariya "quite clearly" better in their peak seasons.

My Best-Carey

Of course there is an era adjustment.

And, Kariya's peak had him as a top-4 scorer in the league 3x and in the top 10 4x; Turgeon appeared only 2x in the top 10, and his best was at 5th, I believe.

Mostly meaningless, but in 1995-96, Turgeon was 26 and scored 96 points with a good Montreal club (Damphousse was 2nd with 94 points; Recchi 3rd with 78). That same year, Kariya was 20, and scored 108 points (Rucchin was 2nd on the team with 44 points).

 

[Canadiens1958]

Pierre Turgeon never stepped up to the level of an anchor player. At times he may have been the most prolific scorer on his team .......... but he never reached a Nathan MacKinnon level.Basically Pierre Larouche with longevity, without side issues.

 

[Newsworthy]

I would take Kariya in his prime any day over Turgeon. Also Paul had a playoff resume that must be acknowledged. Turgeon was nowhere near a complete player and I would look at Kariya on the defensive side when the games counted the most.
Turgeon beats Kariya in health and longevity only.

 

[Neutrinos]

Hawerchuk seems like a reasonable comparable to Turgeon

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

that might have been the first time i’ve ever seen the words kariya and defensive in the same sentence.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Because the HOF is voted on by an old boys club who make arbitrary decisions without any transparency whatsoever. He wasn't 'one of the boys.'

 

[frisco]

I would take Kariya in his prime any day over Turgeon. Also Paul had a playoff resume that must be acknowledged.

Kariya's playoff resume?!? He only MADE the playoffs six times in fifteen years. And scored 39 points in 46 games. I can't think of a post-expansion forward in the Hall with a worse track record than Kariya in the post-season.

I mean Marcel Dionne is kind of the poster boy for regular season success and no playoff success and he has more games and points than Kariya in the playoffs.

My Best-Carey

 

[Newsworthy]

Kariya's playoff resume?!? He only MADE the playoffs six times in fifteen years. And scored 39 points in 46 games. I can't think of a post-expansion forward in the Hall with a worse track record than Kariya in the post-season.

I mean Marcel Dionne is kind of the poster boy for regular season success and no playoff success and he has more games and points than Kariya in the playoffs.

My Best-Carey

Your right somehow I thought he won a Stanley Cup with Scott Neidemayer and the Ducks.

 

[frisco]

And, Kariya's peak had him as a top-4 scorer in the league 3x and in the top 10 4x; Turgeon appeared only 2x in the top 10, and his best was at 5th, I believe.

Scoring finishes (top 20):

Kariya 3-3-4-7-13-20.

Turgeon 5-7-13-13-14-16-17-18.

My Best-Carey

 

[Big Phil]

This is a really good time of year to be talking about Turgeon. For instance, when it is January it is a lot easier to look and say "Hey, he belongs in the HHOF, he has the points." But since we are all watching playoff hockey in April right now it just drills home the reason why Turgeon isn't in the HHOF. The playoffs are not for the faint of heart, and Turgeon was one of them. He didn't step up when his team needed it. Look at Stamkos and Kucherov for instance, again letting their team down despite a wonderful regular season. Granted, these two are probably going to get into the HHOF because you can't ignore their regular season contributions, but they have proven to be chokers again. Turgeon needed regular seasons that made everyone forget he wasn't a playoff performer when it counted, and two scoring finishes in the top 10 doesn't cut it.

 

[Neutrinos]

Scoring finishes (top 20):

Kariya 3-3-4-7-13-20.

Turgeon 5-7-13-13-14-16-17-18.

My Best-Carey

I think top 10 PPG finishes is a more useful metric

 

[Eisen]

What a coward. He should be ashamed of himself.

I don’t care how soft you are... when every last man comes off both benches - you do too. ESPECIALLY when wearing your country’s colors.

I don’t think that’s really the entire reason, but he’s a rodent in my book.

I'd argue that it is more courageous to sit down. To choose not to brawl is also a display of sportsmanship.