Why isn't hockey more popular?
- Thread starter Dexter Sinister
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VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
I don't get the puzzlement.
Hockey attendance has more than doubled to 22 million a year since i was in elementary school, and the NHL is up to 31 teams with another on the way.
The AHL has 31 teams with another on the way; the ECHL now has 26 teams from Maine to Utah to Oklahoma to Idaho. And there are two other minor pro hockey leagues.
There are 60 division 1 NCAA ice hockey programs providing a record number of NHLers (while only 12 unis have 90%+ attendance, more than half have three-quarters of their seats filled), and there are more than 60 lower division college programs in America.
The IIHF has announced year-on-year growth in registered hockey players in the U.S.
Hockey is THRIVING in America.
The NFL, however, lost 23 million viewers in a single year not long ago. There is a sport starting to lose its popularity.
Hockey attendance has more than doubled to 22 million a year since i was in elementary school, and the NHL is up to 31 teams with another on the way.
The AHL has 31 teams with another on the way; the ECHL now has 26 teams from Maine to Utah to Oklahoma to Idaho. And there are two other minor pro hockey leagues.
There are 60 division 1 NCAA ice hockey programs providing a record number of NHLers (while only 12 unis have 90%+ attendance, more than half have three-quarters of their seats filled), and there are more than 60 lower division college programs in America.
The IIHF has announced year-on-year growth in registered hockey players in the U.S.
Hockey is THRIVING in America.
The NFL, however, lost 23 million viewers in a single year not long ago. There is a sport starting to lose its popularity.
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Two big reasons to start with:
1. It's expensive to play. Football, Soccer, Basketball requires a ball. Baseball requires a ball, bat and some gloves, it's also the country's national past time. Go to any park and you can find kids and adults playing those games.
2. The NHL only had six teams, and only four American teams, until 1967. By 1967 the other leagues had gone already south and west.
Numbers of teams in each league.
MLB: 20 (As far west as California and as far south as Houston and Atlanta)
NBA: 10 (With 2 California teams)
NFL: 9 (Houston, Miami, 2 California teams)
You're looking for something wrong with the NHL and not how the other leagues got to be where they are today.
NFL only has 12 games a year, they successfully turned each week into an event.
Basketball has star power and great personalities in a culture that celebrates that.
Baseball had quite the head start over many of the sports, they started various west coast leagues beginning in 1887. That's nearly 100 years before some leagues.
Fan interest has picked up though, and hockey is getting more popular every year. It may not be NFL level, but every year it's a bit better and at every draft there are more and more kids from nonconventional states, we just had a Floridan go 1st this year. You just have to look at it relative to the other leagues.
1. It's expensive to play. Football, Soccer, Basketball requires a ball. Baseball requires a ball, bat and some gloves, it's also the country's national past time. Go to any park and you can find kids and adults playing those games.
2. The NHL only had six teams, and only four American teams, until 1967. By 1967 the other leagues had gone already south and west.
Numbers of teams in each league.
MLB: 20 (As far west as California and as far south as Houston and Atlanta)
NBA: 10 (With 2 California teams)
NFL: 9 (Houston, Miami, 2 California teams)
You're looking for something wrong with the NHL and not how the other leagues got to be where they are today.
NFL only has 12 games a year, they successfully turned each week into an event.
Basketball has star power and great personalities in a culture that celebrates that.
Baseball had quite the head start over many of the sports, they started various west coast leagues beginning in 1887. That's nearly 100 years before some leagues.
Fan interest has picked up though, and hockey is getting more popular every year. It may not be NFL level, but every year it's a bit better and at every draft there are more and more kids from nonconventional states, we just had a Floridan go 1st this year. You just have to look at it relative to the other leagues.
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
It's expensive to play, and in many areas of the USA, it's virtually impossible to play on frozen ponds as such a thing doesn't exist. Also, it isn't a great TV sport. It needs to be live in person to appreciate.
some factors: too expensive, too canadian, too conservative, too white... all of that is definitely alienating for a lot of people i know.
i wonder if the lack of a college pipeline also explains some of it in the US.
all that said, it does seem like viewership/fandom is pretty steady. but i think if the nhl fixed some culture problems (like the ones in the news this week, for instance—racism, hazing, etc.) they could reach a lot of new audiences.
i wonder if the lack of a college pipeline also explains some of it in the US.
all that said, it does seem like viewership/fandom is pretty steady. but i think if the nhl fixed some culture problems (like the ones in the news this week, for instance—racism, hazing, etc.) they could reach a lot of new audiences.
The Panther
Registered User
I'm not really arsed if hockey is more popular or not. All things considered, I'd probably prefer it stayed a famous 'niche' sport like it was in the 1940s to 1980s.
That said, I think it's doing fairly well, if the OP is particularly thinking of the American market. Even if they aren't committed fans, more Americans are aware of the sport and might become fair-weather fans now that so many teams/markets are involved at the NHL level.
I do think the 1999 to 2004 (boring + LockOut) period, and the c.2009 to 2017 (boring) periods hurt the sport.
The NHL was gifted a great period from the tail-end of the 1980s through 1994. There was a higher-than-ever presence of superstar players, great entertainment value, and then L.A. and New York (winner) in successive Stanley Cup Finals in 1993 and 1994. Sports Illustrated was writing in 1994 about how hockey might begin to overtake baseball as a popular spectator sport in the US, thanks to the exciting state of the game. Then, the '94 Work Stoppage happened... then a lot of marquee players (Gretzky, Lemieux) retired... then, the Dead-Puck Era... then, the Work Stoppage killed off an entire season.
That said, I think it's doing fairly well, if the OP is particularly thinking of the American market. Even if they aren't committed fans, more Americans are aware of the sport and might become fair-weather fans now that so many teams/markets are involved at the NHL level.
I do think the 1999 to 2004 (boring + LockOut) period, and the c.2009 to 2017 (boring) periods hurt the sport.
The NHL was gifted a great period from the tail-end of the 1980s through 1994. There was a higher-than-ever presence of superstar players, great entertainment value, and then L.A. and New York (winner) in successive Stanley Cup Finals in 1993 and 1994. Sports Illustrated was writing in 1994 about how hockey might begin to overtake baseball as a popular spectator sport in the US, thanks to the exciting state of the game. Then, the '94 Work Stoppage happened... then a lot of marquee players (Gretzky, Lemieux) retired... then, the Dead-Puck Era... then, the Work Stoppage killed off an entire season.
YEM
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- Mar 7, 2010
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NFL ratings have bounced back
the North American sports that is losing the most, at the moment, is the NBA
The Panther
Registered User
That's really interesting. Can I ask what you base this on, and why do you think it is so?
Big Phil
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- Nov 2, 2003
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For starters, it is the weather. I know there is more interest in hot parts of the US for hockey but the truth is they'll never have ice that will freeze in the winter. They can never just strap on some skates after school and go to an outdoor rink and play. We can do that everywhere in Canada and there are parts of the US that can do this too, but a HUGE chunk of the US can't. But they can shoot hoops, catch fly balls and kick field goals round the clock in a large chunk of the country. So bottom line, to this day hockey is still not in the blood of Americans. People ask this question about soccer in Canada. It is more popular than it used to be sure, and kids play it organized more than hockey. Granted, they ALWAYS have played it more than hockey from an organized standpoint. It is cheaper and easier to play. Hockey you have to be able to skate.
Also, it isn't "America's Game". Baseball is. If not, then it is Football. Or College Basketball. Watch Sportscenter in the US and the hockey highlights will come on long after the NFL, NBA and College.
Another thing is the best players in the world in the NHL are not American. There has been one American in history who has won the Art Ross. There might be 4 or 5 Americans in the top 20 in scoring, and it really hasn't jumped up much either. There were 4 Americans in the top 20 in scoring in 2000, 20 years ago. More are being drafted into the NHL, but there aren't more stars for whatever reason.
It just isn't a game that is 1st on the radar. I did a thread a while back about American cities where a hockey player is arguably the most popular athlete. Granted, there are some cities where a hockey player has a huge following but even in the case of Bobby Orr you would have Tom Brady and Ted Williams and David Ortiz at the very least ahead of him. Maybe Larry Bird. Bobby Clarke in Philly? Close. But is he above Allen Iverson or Mike Schmidt or Steve Carlton? I figured Howe might be the most popular athlete in Detroit's history only because Ty Cobb played so long ago. Lemieux or Crosby might be tops in Pittsburgh but then you are competing with Terry Bradshaw, Joe Greene and such. And these are Northeastern cities in the US too, so it's tough to penetrate.
Also, it isn't "America's Game". Baseball is. If not, then it is Football. Or College Basketball. Watch Sportscenter in the US and the hockey highlights will come on long after the NFL, NBA and College.
Another thing is the best players in the world in the NHL are not American. There has been one American in history who has won the Art Ross. There might be 4 or 5 Americans in the top 20 in scoring, and it really hasn't jumped up much either. There were 4 Americans in the top 20 in scoring in 2000, 20 years ago. More are being drafted into the NHL, but there aren't more stars for whatever reason.
It just isn't a game that is 1st on the radar. I did a thread a while back about American cities where a hockey player is arguably the most popular athlete. Granted, there are some cities where a hockey player has a huge following but even in the case of Bobby Orr you would have Tom Brady and Ted Williams and David Ortiz at the very least ahead of him. Maybe Larry Bird. Bobby Clarke in Philly? Close. But is he above Allen Iverson or Mike Schmidt or Steve Carlton? I figured Howe might be the most popular athlete in Detroit's history only because Ty Cobb played so long ago. Lemieux or Crosby might be tops in Pittsburgh but then you are competing with Terry Bradshaw, Joe Greene and such. And these are Northeastern cities in the US too, so it's tough to penetrate.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Absurd. Fortune magazine ladt year profiled how much the NBA has grown in recent years and projects a doubling of fans in the next ten years. Plus the growth of basketball overseas on several continents ensures uts survival.
Baseball, now there is a quantified declining sport, more so than football.
billybudd
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- Feb 1, 2012
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Whether NFL ratings have bounced back or not, youth football enrollment is dropping dramatically. Youth football is the new viewer pipeline. Without it, the NFL viewership will erode badly, though it will take 2 or 3 generations to die. It's just a byproduct of concussions. You can't have football without major head injuries and parents don't want their kids to have those. Even poor families are beginning to decide their sons would be better off as carpenters (or whatever) than as an NCAA hopeful. Concussions are intrinsic to the sport (whereas hockey can mitigate them).
As far as hockey's, let's say slow growth compared to the other 3 in the big 4, it's just cost and logistics. Anyone in the US who doesn't live near-ish to a rink with reasonable access to ice time is out. Anyone whose parents can't buy all the equipment and pay all the fees is out. Anyone who isn't in the presence of other (at least somewhat) competitive kids to learn against is out. Anyone who doesn't catch the eye of USA hockey by age 14 is out.
Whereas with basketball, you just need a) a basketball b) at least one friend who likes basketball c) a hoop or pole and d) to go to a school. Requirements for trying to become a competitive youth basketball player are just way, way lower. Someone who plays a sport as a kid is more likely to watch it as an adult, so it's drawing from a larger pool of viewers.
As far as hockey's, let's say slow growth compared to the other 3 in the big 4, it's just cost and logistics. Anyone in the US who doesn't live near-ish to a rink with reasonable access to ice time is out. Anyone whose parents can't buy all the equipment and pay all the fees is out. Anyone who isn't in the presence of other (at least somewhat) competitive kids to learn against is out. Anyone who doesn't catch the eye of USA hockey by age 14 is out.
Whereas with basketball, you just need a) a basketball b) at least one friend who likes basketball c) a hoop or pole and d) to go to a school. Requirements for trying to become a competitive youth basketball player are just way, way lower. Someone who plays a sport as a kid is more likely to watch it as an adult, so it's drawing from a larger pool of viewers.
Pominville Knows
Registered User
I'll happily refer the reason for it to other people, but whatever the reason i'm good with it since a massive uptick in the US would make them invincible like in basketball and Football where in the latter they don't even bother playing international and view the Super Bowl champions as world champions. The World Baseball Classic i'm not entirely sure of but there may be lax participation going on by many of the US best, and the most spoiled, so called professionals.
sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
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So hockey is alienating to a lot of people you know because it's "too Canadian"? What does that even mean?
Hockey is the most popular sport in Finland, they don't seem to have a problem with hockey being "too Canadian". Or is hockey "too Finnish" too?
It's like I would say, "oh, I have a problem with baseball, it's too American". Well, that could be a problem to me personally regarding my own specific sport watching preferences, but why would it be a default or general problem regarding a broader public?
Or, "I have a problem with the didgeridoo, it's too aboriginal. Why can't it be more popular? Why can't everyone love to play the didgeridoo? Why can't everyone love to play badminton too? Why can't everyone love water polo?"
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sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
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Hockey is a good enough TV sport. It's a ball sport just like soccer and basketball, with a very simple concept. If you're interested enough in the sport watching it on television is not a problem in the slightest.
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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There are plenty of stories regarding NBA viewership declining, at least in the United States. There will probably be a drop internationally as well with the China fiasco.
I'm not really able to weigh in on this topic as the OP is clearly referring to the United States, but I will say that I am amazed that hockey is as popular as it is. Hockey is a strange, convoluted sport. Soccer is running around kicking a ball. Baseball is hitting a ball with a stick and then trotting. Basketball is running around throwing a ball. Boxing is fighting. Tennis is running around hitting a ball. Rugby is running with a ball. Hockey is moving around on ice with blades on your feet, whacking a vulcanized rubber disc with a stick. Football is fairly convoluted in its modern form, but at its base is pretty similar to rugby.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Ancient Egypt had a similar sport.
And if it is the ice that throws ya, then you have never skated at Rockefeller Center in NY or any state from Minnesota to Colorado. Or at your local rink if you are even American.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Anybody who thinks the NBA is declining in popularity is ignoring the mountain of evidence.
I don't even watch basketball but the friggin' evidence of its growth is undeniable.
I don't even watch basketball but the friggin' evidence of its growth is undeniable.
Sentinel
Registered User
I will disagree here. I've been to many games in my life, but I don't think it's THAT different live. Sure, it's a different kind of fun, like a live concert vs. a recording, but I don't think it loses all that much on TV.
I love the sounds of the game while at the rink, that doesn't translate well into TV broadcasts. My favourite hockey sound was a big shot hitting the chicken wire netting behind the goal in my hometown rink back in the day. Not many nettings like that in the big leagues, though which is a shame.
And you really appreciate the pace of the players skating and especially how hard puck is passed and shot witout being really up close. But that's true with pretty much every other sport, too.
And the cost thing exceeds from cost of a players families to community at larger scale. Building and running a rink is a massive investment. I played my junior hockey here in Finland at the turn of 80's and 90's and that was the time when lot of indoor rinks were built largely with public funds. My small home town got a rink when I was in my early teens and I remember a lot of debate in local newspaper about whether it was worth or not to spill big amounts of money into building one when we didn't have pro team and kids could have a hobby playing at a outside rink perfectly well.
And you really appreciate the pace of the players skating and especially how hard puck is passed and shot witout being really up close. But that's true with pretty much every other sport, too.
And the cost thing exceeds from cost of a players families to community at larger scale. Building and running a rink is a massive investment. I played my junior hockey here in Finland at the turn of 80's and 90's and that was the time when lot of indoor rinks were built largely with public funds. My small home town got a rink when I was in my early teens and I remember a lot of debate in local newspaper about whether it was worth or not to spill big amounts of money into building one when we didn't have pro team and kids could have a hobby playing at a outside rink perfectly well.
cutchemist42
Registered User
Bondurant
Registered User
I don't buy into the argument that people don't like hockey because they don't live in areas with frozen water. I grew up in MI and never once played on ice. Heck, I can't skate. Yet I played plenty of floor hockey in gym class and street hockey outside. All organized hockey was played indoors. An indoor rink can be built anywhere.
There's even a bar here in Phoenix with a view of a rink where you can watch youth or beer leagues.
There's even a bar here in Phoenix with a view of a rink where you can watch youth or beer leagues.
WolfgangPuck
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- May 12, 2012
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I think there are pockets of popularity in northern states like Michigan and the Dakotas where there are more young people playing
Like in the post someone says has to be your blood early on
The type of sports people seems to be interested in are regional depending on the climate and the available faculties in those places
Like in the post someone says has to be your blood early on
The type of sports people seems to be interested in are regional depending on the climate and the available faculties in those places
Because much of the US isnt cold to the point of experiencing freezing temperatures.
And it’s not an accessible sport to play.
It will never touch basketball, football or baseball. Holding on to some hope that other sports are declining and that hockey will match them in the future is supremely delusional.
Hockey is a major sport in Canada, Russia, Scandinavia, and a couple of countries abutting the Alps. In other words, the coldest places on the planet outside the poles.
Everywhere else, it’s either a minor sport or nonexistent. What about the US? Yes, it’s popular in the northern band where temperatures are closer to Canada. Yet even there it plays second, third or fourth fiddle.
And it’s not an accessible sport to play.
It will never touch basketball, football or baseball. Holding on to some hope that other sports are declining and that hockey will match them in the future is supremely delusional.
Hockey is a major sport in Canada, Russia, Scandinavia, and a couple of countries abutting the Alps. In other words, the coldest places on the planet outside the poles.
Everywhere else, it’s either a minor sport or nonexistent. What about the US? Yes, it’s popular in the northern band where temperatures are closer to Canada. Yet even there it plays second, third or fourth fiddle.
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