Why is there a rivalry between the NHL & KHL?

Atas2000

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Jan 18, 2011
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If it was up to standards people would want to play there...fact...and I hear you I wish our NHL had a foreigner limit to let more AMericans and Canadians develop as opposed to finishing the development of the best players in the world (see Ovie, Malkin, Kotkaniemi, Peddersen, etc) if only there was a way to spread that talent out and have a mini series between the Euro zone winners (obviously KHL Liiga etc) and the stanley cup champs...best of 7 series...3 in the home rink of each team and the last in a neutral location similiar to the Champions League or the NFL...it would be expensive...but the eyes it would bring to hockey globally would probably be quite worth the risk
Sounds good, but sadly so unrealistic. Most of all because the NHL would never do it.
 

JayfromNB1219

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Well, CSKA has won it's first KHL championship this year, SKA has won twice. That's 3 championships in 11 years. If what you were told there was true then the league is not doing it properly:sarcasm:

It's more like there is a rather small circle of richer teams that are always playing for the championship. 6 teams have won in 11 seasons of the KHL. There are maybe another two or three which have not won, but could have and are part of that upper tier in the league. That's the natural disparity without the strict cap hit(there is a luxury tax for exceeding the cap), not much unlike in the NHL before the cap era.

There is always talk about officating, but there is also that natural competition. When the big ones are playing each other which occurs rather regularily in that system who would the league push more? Or better to say if the league indeed would do that they'd piss off some heavyweights too. It just would not work that simple.

again, I stress that I don't follow the KHL thus all the question marks when it comes to what I type here, I am just starting to look at it so forgive my lack of knowledge, I know very little mostly what I have read in bite sized columns usually when something goes horribly wrong for the league for some reason (Canadian Media woot woot) so I may sound like I am trolling but I am literally trying to learn more about this league lol
 

JayfromNB1219

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Sounds good, but sadly so unrealistic. Most of all because the NHL would never do it.

yeah they're kinda a$$h0lez lol very protective of their business...but man the money that could be made worldwide is enough to make you drop lol...think about it I am a leafs fan but imagine the Boston Bruins vs SKA (moscow) if I am not mistaken for the world club hockey championship...make the NHL team play on Olympic ice sizes and the Euro team play on the smaller NA ice surfaces with the 7th game if needed rotating between olympic ice and NA ice in a neutral location...it's fun to dream lol
 

Section Netherlands

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again, I stress that I don't follow the KHL thus all the question marks when it comes to what I type here, I am just starting to look at it so forgive my lack of knowledge, I know very little mostly what I have read in bite sized columns usually when something goes horribly wrong for the league for some reason (Canadian Media woot woot) so I may sound like I am trolling but I am literally trying to learn more about this league lol
I think that foreign media usually only writes about the KHL when something is wrong. It's the same for Swedish media. Basically only news if the KHL is evil or stupid, or if some Swede is doing something remarkable in the league.
 
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vorky

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As @Witte49 wrote, media, even Russian, care about the KHL only if there is something negative to talk about. I do not know media, excluding Tatarstan´s based Biznis Online, who study the KHL deeply. And there are many things to talk about.

Regarding debts - all story, it happened at the time of 2014 & had nothing to do with the KHL. The league has done a great job since those times. There may be one or two clubs with payment delays, but they have always paid it.

Regarding games against the NHL - yes, the NHL has such an offer on the table. We need to address the question to them.

Regarding the NL - yes, good league, but still below the KHL. The NL has one or two clubs able to pay on KHL´s upper level, and it is not enough. According to Forbes, the average payroll budget is 5-6M EUR in NL, a few clubs are able to spend 10-11M EUR. In the KHL, you have an average of 9M EUR (700M rubles) & future salary cap at 900M rubles (13M EUR) - plus other bucks not counting in the cap (U21, some bonuses), so it may be realistically at 15M EUR.

The SHL is even worse with payroll, just 4M EUR on average, plus taxes. The Liiga even worse than SHL.
 

Barclay Donaldson

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As @Witte49 wrote, media, even Russian, care about the KHL only if there is something negative to talk about. I do not know media, excluding Tatarstan´s based Biznis Online, who study the KHL deeply. And there are many things to talk about.

Regarding debts - all story, it happened at the time of 2014 & had nothing to do with the KHL. The league has done a great job since those times. There may be one or two clubs with payment delays, but they have always paid it.

Regarding games against the NHL - yes, the NHL has such an offer on the table. We need to address the question to them.

Regarding the NL - yes, good league, but still below the KHL. The NL has one or two clubs able to pay on KHL´s upper level, and it is not enough. According to Forbes, the average payroll budget is 5-6M EUR in NL, a few clubs are able to spend 10-11M EUR. In the KHL, you have an average of 9M EUR (700M rubles) & future salary cap at 900M rubles (13M EUR) - plus other bucks not counting in the cap (U21, some bonuses), so it may be realistically at 15M EUR.

The SHL is even worse with payroll, just 4M EUR on average, plus taxes. The Liiga even worse than SHL.

Their payroll is lower because they actually need to operate and maintain efficient financial standards. They aren’t reliant on government run companies to pay off all of the debts at the end of each season. None of those leagues have had the team turnover or negative media image that the KHL has had and will have, whether they deserve it or not. Pretty sure they’ll all take being legitimate entities that pay on time and aren’t surrounded by blatant corruption over being the second best league in the world.
 

JayfromNB1219

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I think that foreign media usually only writes about the KHL when something is wrong. It's the same for Swedish media. Basically only news if the KHL is evil or stupid, or if some Swede is doing something remarkable in the league.

I feel like adding to my bucket list to watch a Gagarin cup final game (hopefully in Moscow) lol
 

Section Netherlands

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I feel like adding to my bucket list to watch a Gagarin cup final game (hopefully in Moscow) lol
You very much should. Since there is a very high chance of of a Moscow team to go to final(basically only SKA standing in the way). I would otherwise recommend attending a Moscow derby. Amazing atmosphere, unmatched in the world. Preferably Spartak vs Dynamo since CSKA is kinda op lol.
 

JayfromNB1219

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You very much should. Since there is a very high chance of of a Moscow team to go to final(basically only SKA standing in the way). I would otherwise recommend attending a Moscow derby. Amazing atmosphere, unmatched in the world. Preferably Spartak vs Dynamo since CSKA is kinda op lol.

simply put it comes down to knowing whether Russia is safe for a Canadian (as dumb and ignorant as that sounds...) we don't hear a lot about you guys unless its in a negative light
 

Section Netherlands

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simply put it comes down to knowing whether Russia is safe for a Canadian (as dumb and ignorant as that sounds...) we don't hear a lot about you guys unless its in a negative light
I'm not Russian btw, I just moved here some time ago. And trust me, you are safe in Russia as a Canadian. It's as safe as any western country really. You'd have to go to Chechnya or something like that for it to be remotely not-safe.
 

JayfromNB1219

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I'm not Russian btw, I just moved here some time ago. And trust me, you are safe in Russia as a Canadian. It's as safe as any western country really. You'd have to go to Chechnya or something like that for it to be remotely not-safe.


Good to know! pencil in the family vacay to Moscow/St Pete's this year lol hopefully there is a ton of available booze lol...if I am going to Russia, I am getting hammered lol
 
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Rigafan

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simply put it comes down to knowing whether Russia is safe for a Canadian (as dumb and ignorant as that sounds...) we don't hear a lot about you guys unless its in a negative light

If Moscow was included in European rankings, I believe it would rank as one of the safest cities in Europe. Now considering the size of Moscow, that is mighty impressive!

The media always loves the bad news, it gets the ratings for them! You are Canadian so your city is probably pretty safe, although I bet you wouldn't think twice to visit say.. London or Paris? Right? And they are NOT overly safe on the whole but the media won't let you learn that so easily!
 

JayfromNB1219

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If Moscow was included in European rankings, I believe it would rank as one of the safest cities in Europe. Now considering the size of Moscow, that is mighty impressive!

The media always loves the bad news, it gets the ratings for them! You are Canadian so your city is probably pretty safe, although I bet you wouldn't think twice to visit say.. London or Paris? Right? And they are NOT overly safe on the whole but the media won't let you learn that so easily!

I assume you attend games? what is the atmosphere like in the derby games and can you try to let me know the similar rivalries to:
Toronto v Montreal
Montreal v Boston
Toronto v Ottawa
Anaheim vs LA (or SJ)
NYR v NYI

just curious if you can I would definitely appreciate it, if not I understand I have been picking your brain for most of the day now lol
 

Rigafan

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I assume you attend games? what is the atmosphere like in the derby games and can you try to let me know the similar rivalries to:
Toronto v Montreal
Montreal v Boston
Toronto v Ottawa
Anaheim vs LA (or SJ)
NYR v NYI

just curious if you can I would definitely appreciate it, if not I understand I have been picking your brain for most of the day now lol

I've attended many Dinamo Riga games, not any Moscow derby (I should do at some point) but Dinamo has some hardcore fans and the atmosphere is simply amazing they play Moscow or St Petersburg.

In my experience comparing to the NHL. I've seen Toronto V Montreal and I was at the World Cup of Hockey finals.

Dinamo atmosphere is just better (without my biased!) there is noise from start to finish its like a party almost and all the pre game build up and team intro At one game vs Amur, Amur had 2 fans who travelled to the game in Riga (check how far that is on google maps) they became mini celebrities for the night, pictures taken etc.

The arena in Riga holds 10,500

When at Toronto v Montreal and paying $218 for my nosebleed tickets!! It was amazing to see such a huge arena, I was at Air Canada, and so many people! The quality of the hockey was obviously amazing, it felt like it was played in slow motion watching it live. The only disappointment was the crowd was SILENT for 99% of the game. Until a bad call, check, goal then some noise then nothing! Its very different to the Euro style of crowds.

edit: I was going to mention, I've never paid more than €18 for a good seat in Riga.
 

JayfromNB1219

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I've attended many Dinamo Riga games, not any Moscow derby (I should do at some point) but Dinamo has some hardcore fans and the atmosphere is simply amazing they play Moscow or St Petersburg.

In my experience comparing to the NHL. I've seen Toronto V Montreal and I was at the World Cup of Hockey finals.

Dinamo atmosphere is just better (without my biased!) there is noise from start to finish its like a party almost and all the pre game build up and team intro At one game vs Amur, Amur had 2 fans who travelled to the game in Riga (check how far that is on google maps) they became mini celebrities for the night, pictures taken etc.

The arena in Riga holds 10,500

When at Toronto v Montreal and paying $218 for my nosebleed tickets!! It was amazing to see such a huge arena, I was at Air Canada, and so many people! The quality of the hockey was obviously amazing, it felt like it was played in slow motion watching it live. The only disappointment was the crowd was SILENT for 99% of the game. Until a bad call, check, goal then some noise then nothing! Its very different to the Euro style of crowds.

edit: I was going to mention, I've never paid more than €18 for a good seat in Riga.

yeah I am a leafs guy (big surprise) our ticket prices are disgusting...straight up disgusting lol...what is the talent level like? I know a few NHL'ers have returned to keep playing but from reporting it's like men playing against boys...relying on someone who has seen it in person lol
 

Rigafan

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yeah I am a leafs guy (big surprise) our ticket prices are disgusting...straight up disgusting lol...what is the talent level like? I know a few NHL'ers have returned to keep playing but from reporting it's like men playing against boys...relying on someone who has seen it in person lol

Well, being a Riga fan it can be quite tough sometimes. We don't have a big budget and since Sandis Ozolins retired (you may know his name?) we have struggled. He was like the rock on D that kept it together, and we haven't been able to replace him.

The top teams like SKA, CSKA, AK Bars, Avto and co. are very strong, fast. The euro style though can mean some games seem a lot slower than the NHL, less hits, more focus on team (random things like you always must pass pass pass before you shoot) Its hard to say as a direct comparison.

Maybe check some youtube highlights, Daily KHL Update is in English too.

If you put SKA in the NHL they'd probably do alright. If you put Riga in the NHL it'd be disgusting to watch :laugh:
 
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Section Netherlands

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I assume you attend games? what is the atmosphere like in the derby games and can you try to let me know the similar rivalries to:
Toronto v Montreal
Montreal v Boston
Toronto v Ottawa
Anaheim vs LA (or SJ)
NYR v NYI

just curious if you can I would definitely appreciate it, if not I understand I have been picking your brain for most of the day now lol

Would like to answer too, even though Rigafan said it well. The quality of hockey is obviously better in North America, but the atmosphere is just different. Quiet, as before mentioned. I would rather compare the atmosphere to that of a football game(soccer). More due to the teams being a social identity, for which you as a fan has to protect against other teams. Especially in rivalries. In the Soviet times the teams were connected to some part of society, so there were a team for the army, a team for the police, a team for meat industry, railroad industry, car industry and so on. This is still relevant today, but more loose than during the Soviet times.

If I understood things right, the NYR vs NYI derbys are not very heated, even though it's the same city. I would say that derbies are more like Montreal vs Toronto, where the language identity comes in place of the societal identity.

Moscow derbies are of course the easiest to go to, and in my opinion the best ;). But most teams have amazing fans. Riga could be an easy option since it's in the EU and therefore easy to do if you are travelling in EU in general. Kazan and Ufa is interesting too, I hear.

Edit: The tickets for Spartak games are just a few euros. Cheapest are about 1.5 euro, lower section can be 1.5 to 4.5 euros depending on the game. Low on the long side of the rink is maybe the double. But can highly recommend reading up on the chants and go to the standing section close to the glass.
 
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Peiskos

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Jan 4, 2018
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This is the first time I'm hearing that there is a rivalry between the NHL and KHL, last time I checked your average NHL fan never speaks at all about the KHL and gives it pretty much zero thought. There is also zero media attention on the KHL in Canadian and American media, its seen as an inferior lower tiered league to the NHL and that's because it is.
 

sexydonut

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I actually want to see competitive games between the NHL and KHL. And I want to see the KHL in the next (lousy) installment of the EA video games.

Ditto with seeing NPB vs. MLB in video games.
 
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Barclay Donaldson

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I actually want to see competitive games between the NHL and KHL. And I want to see the KHL in the next (lousy) installment of the EA video games.

Ditto with seeing NPB vs. MLB in video games.

Will never happen. EA Sports doesn’t want to pay for the licensing. They didn’t even want to pay for the licensing for the ECHL until it was given to them for almost nothing, they’re still using knockoff jerseys and logos for half of the national teams. All the current European leagues give their licensing for a token fee, EA NHL is extremely small and doesn’t have a lot of money to throw around for licensing.

The old Russian Super League was used in like NHL 09, but the KHL formation ended that. KHL won’t give it up on the cheap, and EA won’t pay for it. Stats show that the current European leagues are used significantly less than the NHL teams, they won’t pay market price for more of the same. Although it’s arguably their fault considering how crummy the games are setup.
 
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sexydonut

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EA is just a bad company. They don't actually put resources into producing a better product, but they do indulge in stock buy backs and their executives are well compensated. Then there's the nickel and diming--Buy the game, then buy crap in order to win at the game.

How do they ruin so many brand name franchises? NFL, FIFA, NHL, Star Wars, Sims, Simcity?
 

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