Why is the KHL destroying European Hockey?

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,404
1,269
Clubs leaving KHL

I can not see Riga, Avto leaving league, I can imagine Spartak moving to Sochi but it sounds too weird....

KHL expansion or Scandinavian league?


KHL´s goal is Sweden and Germany. I can see a lot of problems in Sweden but who knows? I bet on Malmo/Djurgaarden. Germany will be easier. Money solve all problems, just 2 examples (btw repeating myself). Nord/South Stream - Gazprom "convinced" Europe that Gazprom´s project are better for Europe (Russia :D) than Nabucco. KHL in Slovakia, Czech, Finland - it took a few yrs but KHL "convinced" all these countries that KHL is best option for them (KHL).
Btw, Gazprom=KHL...all said

Scandinavian league as rival of KHL will not be created, dont dream about it. Many reasons for it but most important reason - KHL does not want such rival and will do everything to block every attempt (like Nabucco). I have sometimes a feeling that some HFB posters dont follow international politics/geopolitics. Follow it, you will find out what/how KHL wants to achieve.

Scandinavian league or Champions league or whatever is created only if KHL will agree with it. Of course, such league will be control by KHL, not Euros. Like it or not.

Slovan/Slovak hockey

True reason why slovak hockey/league has been regresing is lack of profesionalism in clubs/federation/league´s management not Slovan playing KHL. Almost all so called managers in slovak clubs/league/federation care about own money (how to steal as much money as possible) not future of slovak hockey. Ask yourself - why was Slovakia first non-exCCCP country where KHL club landed?
 

Jonimaus

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
3,005
27
Lund
Scandinavian league or Champions league or whatever is created only if KHL will agree with it. Of course, such league will be control by KHL, not Euros. Like it or not.

Don't care about champions league, but KHL would have about as much say in a scandinavian league as they have in the swedish league, which is 0. We don't care if KHL has money or not, it does not matter to us. Sure if KHL wants to continue to overpay 4th line NHL players or players that does not fit at all in NHL, they'll continue doing that, it doesn't matter, a scandinavian leage would not exist to compete with NHL.

But hey, it's cute you think KHL is relevant over here. :laugh:
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,404
1,269
Don't care about champions league, but KHL would have about as much say in a scandinavian league as they have in the swedish league, which is 0. We don't care if KHL has money or not, it does not matter to us. Sure if KHL wants to continue to overpay 4th line NHL players or players that does not fit at all in NHL, they'll continue doing that, it doesn't matter, a scandinavian leage would not exist to compete with NHL.

But hey, it's cute you think KHL is relevant over here. :laugh:

your point?
 

billy piton

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
840
159
Zagreb
Bolded part :laugh::laugh::laugh: Do you realize that we (Medvescak) were pee blood in order to get enough money for one season in EBEL. Only reason why we were so successfull is that we have had better bottom lines than most of Austrian, Slovenian and Hungarian as well, teams simply because borderline AHL-ers and strong ECHL-ers are better than some Austrian/Slovenian juniors or their 3rd tier senior players.

It is true that club will financially grow compared to EBEL days, but until some rich Russian, who likes to spend summer vacation in Dubrovnik or Hvar, doesn't buy us we are going to be one of the most poor clubs in KHL when it comes to budget. Said that, making playoffs will be like winning GC for us.

qft, especially the bolded part.

and i think that similar thing could happen in the khl, because strong ahl-ers are better than most khl 3rd liners aside from top teams (ie ska, cska, dynamo...). if mark french find good chemistry, i wouldn't be surprised medveÅ¡čak end up in playoffs.
 

ult

Registered User
Sep 21, 2009
2,067
230
qft, especially the bolded part.

and i think that similar thing could happen in the khl, because strong ahl-ers are better than most khl 3rd liners aside from top teams (ie ska, cska, dynamo...). if mark french find good chemistry, i wouldn't be surprised medveščak end up in playoffs.

The problem is that there are only 8 playoff spots in the west, and you've already named 3 contenders for them, which leaves only 5 spots left and a lot more teams who's 3rd lines are consisted of better players than your average strong ahl-ers. Lokomotiv, Atlant, Slovan, Lev, Donbass, Minsk. So, uh, no, strong ahlers aren't better than KHL 3rd liners in most of KHL teams. And if you're relying on just strong ahlers don't expect to get into playoffs.
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,404
1,269
Hahahahaha, is this your reaction when you're being proved wrong? Either this or just leave the section all together (like when we laughed at you so hard you stopped writing in the swedish section)? Oh god. :laugh:

My point is that what you write is wrong.

I will omit your personal atack toward me, dont want to be offtopic.

Ok, you claim I am wrong. If I understand it, you claim "KHL will/would have no word in creating Scandinavian league" Do you really believe it?

scandinavian leage would not exist to compete with NHL.
Maybe you wanted to write KHL?

KHL does not need league, Scandinavian league, which would compete directly or indirectly with KHL. This league would be "stronger" than SHL, maybe would not have money to compete with KHL (salaries), but would be strong enough not to allow their players to go to KHL as SM-Liiga players have been doing nowadays (exodus if you want). Look at SHL, not so many SHLers go to KHL because no release clauses (or SHL club does not agree with releasing or price). KHL needs "SM-Liiga model" (good player coming to KHL for small amount of money/btw. behaviour of NHL but this KHL´s is based on market not PTA), not "SHL model". That is one of reasons why KHL will do everything to stop any attempt of Nordic/Euro/Scandinavian league.

You can think that KHL would have no word in process of creating such league, I am fine with it, your opinion. Reality is not like that.

Kummola is "big friend" of KHL. You need Kummola to create Scandinavian league.

Fasel is "big friend" of KHL. You need Fasel to create Euro league.

Who knows? Maybe there is more "friends" of KHL in Finland, or Germany, Sweden.

Ask yourself why hated KHL expanded to central Europe within 3 yrs and to Finland within 5 yrs since creating KHL (2008) .... and why ET is a competition without plan for future? I have followed both, I know what is goal of KHL, how KHL wants to develop, but I have no idea about ET.

Etc etc

The most important questions for you. Why does not Scandinavian league exist? Would be Scandinavian league good for Sweden/Finland or KHL? Why would Sweden/Finland want to create Scandinavian league (market, money, tv-deals)? What league (KHL) would not like Scandinavian league? The same Qs about ET/Champions league

Politics, you need to know how politics work if you want to reply correctly.
 

swosh

Im pink hair niггa
Jul 3, 2013
512
0
Prague
The problem is that there are only 8 playoff spots in the west, and you've already named 3 contenders for them, which leaves only 5 spots left and a lot more teams who's 3rd lines are consisted of better players than your average strong ahl-ers. Lokomotiv, Atlant, Slovan, Lev, Donbass, Minsk. So, uh, no, strong ahlers aren't better than KHL 3rd liners in most of KHL teams. And if you're relying on just strong ahlers don't expect to get into playoffs.
As i know. Players who came from NA to LEV, are "bordering" NHL-AHLers. So statemant "KHLers are strong AHLers" fits for most teams. And Medvesak can get place at play off like Slovan did it. I useually wish some (limeted) success for all newcomers
 
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vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,404
1,269
The problem is that there are only 8 playoff spots in the west, and you've already named 3 contenders for them, which leaves only 5 spots left and a lot more teams who's 3rd lines are consisted of better players than your average strong ahl-ers. Lokomotiv, Atlant, Slovan, Lev, Donbass, Minsk. So, uh, no, strong ahlers aren't better than KHL 3rd liners in most of KHL teams. And if you're relying on just strong ahlers don't expect to get into playoffs.

MedveÅ¡čak >Slovan
 

Jonimaus

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
3,005
27
Lund
Ok, you claim I am wrong. If I understand it, you claim "KHL will/would have no word in creating Scandinavian league" Do you really believe it?

Yeah. What say would KHL have in it? I don't understand. KHL right now has no say in SHL, what would be the difference?

Maybe you wanted to write KHL?

Nope. It would barely compete with KHL, but it absolutely would not compete with NHL.

KHL does not need league, Scandinavian league, which would compete directly or indirectly with KHL. This league would be "stronger" than SHL, maybe would not have money to compete with KHL (salaries), but would be strong enough not to allow their players to go to KHL as SM-Liiga players have been doing nowadays (exodus if you want). Look at SHL, not so many SHLers go to KHL because no release clauses (or SHL club does not agree with releasing or price). KHL needs "SM-Liiga model" (good player coming to KHL for small amount of money/btw. behaviour of NHL but this KHL´s is based on market not PTA), not "SHL model". That is one of reasons why KHL will do everything to stop any attempt of Nordic/Euro/Scandinavian league.

You can think that KHL would have no word in process of creating such league, I am fine with it, your opinion. Reality is not like that.

Kummola is "big friend" of KHL. You need Kummola to create Scandinavian league.

Fasel is "big friend" of KHL. You need Fasel to create Euro league.

Who knows? Maybe there is more "friends" of KHL in Finland, or Germany, Sweden.

Ask yourself why hated KHL expanded to central Europe within 3 yrs and to Finland within 5 yrs since creating KHL (2008) .... and why ET is a competition without plan for future? I have followed both, I know what is goal of KHL, how KHL wants to develop, but I have no idea about ET.

Etc etc

The most important questions for you. Why does not Scandinavian league exist? Would be Scandinavian league good for Sweden/Finland or KHL? Why would Sweden/Finland want to create Scandinavian league (market, money, tv-deals)? What league (KHL) would not like Scandinavian league? The same Qs about ET/Champions league

Politics, you need to know how politics work if you want to reply correctly.

First of all, can we please leave ET or champions league out of it? As you've clearly realized it's irrelevant. If it happens it happens, if it doesn't it doesn't.

A scandinavian league would in no way be able to financially compete with KHL. No chance. We would most likely be able to keep more players, but the best ones would still leave for NHL, and the 2nd best players would still leave for KHL unless they really don't want to leave Sweden, an example here is Jörgen Jönsson, who was an NHL caliber player who chose to spend 95% of his career in Sweden. Not saying he wasn't paid good, but he could easily have trippled or more that salary in NHL and KHL. (Though he left his prime before KHL really hit off)

Now, I don't think we'll see a scandinavian league anytime soon, if ever, my point is that if we wanted to create it, KHL wouldn't have any say in it.
 

cantskate

Registered User
Sep 22, 2005
2,144
0
On the ice
An American view

I'm only speculating about things, and I don't know the motivations of those involved, but here is what I'm guessing:
- KHL wants to be more competitive with NHL, and to do that, it must become a Pan-European league.
- As a KHL becomes stronger, it can offer more to players and fans. More countries involved may mean broader appeal. I like the fact that many countries are represented in the league.
- KHL is a young league. It has not been around very long, but has made strong progress in a short time. Remember, the NHL started small and has grown over decades.
- More teams from more countries may potentially lead to greater television revenues, and more exposure, which is good for the all the teams and countries. It may also help grow the sport across Europe. (At least I hope so.)
- A larger, stronger league in Europe could give the best European players another option besides the NHL. Many may still want to come to N America, but some may want to play closer to home.

I don't know whether a larger KHL will have a negative or positive effect on hockey in each European country, but it is possible the effect will be different in each country depending on how their current leagues are run. My guess is, that the best players coming out of each country will eventually want to play in either the NHL or the KHL (if it continues to gain strength). This isn't really much different than it is now, except players can choose between two top leagues instead of one. Currently, for example, most of the top Finnish players end up in the NHL even if they play for a while in the top Finnish league. Now some may elect KHL, but it may not change the overall dynamic in the Finnish league.

I watched the KHL and German elite league games on the Web during the NHL lockout and continued to follow them even after the NHL returned. The KHL in particular is good, exciting hockey, and I wish it and other Euro leagues were televised here in the US.
 

cantskate

Registered User
Sep 22, 2005
2,144
0
On the ice
More...

I think the reason the KHL wants to expand into different countries is that it realizes that to compete economically with the NHL, it must be a truely pan-Euro league. A league restricted to Scandinavia, for example wouldn't have the financial ability to compete, but with more countries involved, there is greater financial power and potential. The KHL is prudently starting with countries that have strong hockey history, and the economic ability to sustain a team, but they may try to grow the game in non-traditional hockey countries, which would be a good thing.
 

Jussi

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
91,022
10,992
Mojo Dojo Casa House
Kummola is "big friend" of KHL. You need Kummola to create Scandinavian league.

Kummola is a big friend of money. Period. He himself has however never personally tried to create any leagues, he leaves it to someone else. A Nordic league was something that Finnish and Swedish leagues delved in. The only thing holding that one up is that the Swedes have not asked the cleaners at Malmö's arena what they think about it.
 

Pominville Knows

Registered User
Sep 28, 2012
4,477
333
Down Under
Kummola is a big friend of money. Period. He himself has however never personally tried to create any leagues, he leaves it to someone else. A Nordic league was something that Finnish and Swedish leagues delved in. The only thing holding that one up is that the Swedes have not asked the cleaners at Malmö's arena what they think about it.

I'd probably would welcome one. Say eight swedish teams and six finnish ones. Then add two KHL teams from each nation and i think we have shrunken the numbers of elite teams more than enough that the nordic league teams compared to now wont suffer in quality becouse of the KHL teams. Sure, the best players available will play there, but they only have place for six top-six forwards each, four top-four defensemen etc.
 

Yakushev72

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
4,550
372
I'm only speculating about things, and I don't know the motivations of those involved, but here is what I'm guessing:
- KHL wants to be more competitive with NHL, and to do that, it must become a Pan-European league.
- As a KHL becomes stronger, it can offer more to players and fans. More countries involved may mean broader appeal. I like the fact that many countries are represented in the league.
- KHL is a young league. It has not been around very long, but has made strong progress in a short time. Remember, the NHL started small and has grown over decades.
- More teams from more countries may potentially lead to greater television revenues, and more exposure, which is good for the all the teams and countries. It may also help grow the sport across Europe. (At least I hope so.)
- A larger, stronger league in Europe could give the best European players another option besides the NHL. Many may still want to come to N America, but some may want to play closer to home.

I don't know whether a larger KHL will have a negative or positive effect on hockey in each European country, but it is possible the effect will be different in each country depending on how their current leagues are run. My guess is, that the best players coming out of each country will eventually want to play in either the NHL or the KHL (if it continues to gain strength). This isn't really much different than it is now, except players can choose between two top leagues instead of one. Currently, for example, most of the top Finnish players end up in the NHL even if they play for a while in the top Finnish league. Now some may elect KHL, but it may not change the overall dynamic in the Finnish league.

I watched the KHL and German elite league games on the Web during the NHL lockout and continued to follow them even after the NHL returned. The KHL in particular is good, exciting hockey, and I wish it and other Euro leagues were televised here in the US.

You make some really good points, but I don't think that the KHL has any short-term goals at all involving competing with the NHL. After nearly 100 years of existence, the NHL is firmly entrenched, and the KHL is prepared to continue to lose the battle for the top domestic talent over the short term. All of the teams in the KHL, Russian or other, would of course love to keep the best talent at home instead of watching them go off to the NHL, but that is a much more narrow goal than competing with the NHL on the World market for the title of best hockey league.
 

tobu

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
2,141
1,173
Bratislava, Slovakia
I am a Slovak supporting Slovan. I've been to a number of games last season and will be a season ticket holder for this coming season. Let me elaborate the effect of KHL on hockey in Slovakia.

First of all, the effect on Slovan. 99% of the games in the 1st season were sold out, next season will probably be at a 100% sell-out rate. This is a drastic improvement from when Slovan played the Slovak league. Obviously, fans in Bratislava appreciate the level of hockey in KHL as it is indisputably the best in Europe. Yes, we had no idea about most of the Russian teams coming to play in here, yes, we lost rivalries with Slovak teams like Kosice, Trencin or Zvolen, but having seen a number of awesome games against SKA, CSKA, Spartak or Traktor, i'm more than just looking forward to the next season. We have a new local derby with Prague that would sell out a 50K arena. So the effect on Bratislava -> huge. Old rivalries lost, new are coming to life.

Effect on Slovak league. The league was crap before KHL, one exception was the last decade's lockout. The league is crap after Slovan left. Slovan was the key rival for every other Slovak team, everyone hated Slovan, but loved having a shot at beating Slovan. Slovan would be pretty much the only shot for the other teams to sell out their arenas. With Slovan gone, the league is has lost its last shining moment - its dull. However, just like any depression, it can be overcome. Just like Slovan found new rivals, so can the Slovak league teams. Yes, it will most likely be a feeder league for Slovan, effectively making Slovan the core of the national team, but that's nothing bad. The league was a feeder league before, just as SM liga, just as Czech league, just as Swedish league. With KHL in, we'll finally at least have the guts to get more $ in return for the feeds, and I'm sure that will benefit the hockey in the long run.
 

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