Why is no one talking Kadri?

[glucker]

As a player with over 500 games under his belt, just seems like Kadri still hasn't found the right consistent approach on a consistent basis. When he's successful he's the engaged Brad Marchand type who stirs up trouble, plays the body, keeps it simple, goes to the net and generates a good deal of offense. When he's not on his game, he's on this timid float mode, and stops skating, stops really doing much of anything.

When he was in a second line role and producing, his contract was great value, but for some reason he doesn't seem to be able to be as engaged in the play on the third line and is suddenly overpaid. Not sure why he can't get into gear on a consistent basis. As time goes on, I wonder if we may want to move him out for what Brayden Schenn is purported to be on the trade block for, 2 young players and a 1st round pick. Let him go somewhere where he can be on a second line and we get to replenish the organization depth and create cap space for other items.

I wouldn't call a guy on pace for 50 points overpaid at 4.5M.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

.............

 

[sdf]

Pfff who need talking Kadri...

 

[Pookie]

Kadri is fine. He's always been streaky.

Still on pace for 18 goals(could easily hit 20) and 50 points and is usually tenacious out there. What more do you want from a 3C?

Two seasons ago, folks were talking Selke. And Leaf Captain role.

Low end 1C is what some folks yell. Should a low end 1C playing sheltered minutes and on the #1 PP expect a near 20% point reduction from just 20 seasons ago?

Are these lowered expectations a reasonable measuring stick?

 

[Notsince67]

Apart from match Kadri's career point highs in his first full season of play and following it up the second year by doing it again?

So context is clearly unimportant yet again.
Can you match up Willy's projected 3rd year against Kadri's 3rd full year? Oh...unfair! Let me try again.
Are you absolutely certain that Willy can even match Kadri's 25 points in the last 41 games in the second half of the season?
How about if Willy took Kadri's spot as a third line center and was thrown different line mates regularly. Would he do better that 50 point per season?
Would Kadri do better as AM winger that his 50 points?
I am not over-valuing Kadri because he does have some flaws. Clearly you over-value Willy. Be careful what you wish for.

Here is one scenario:
Kadri gets moved and Willy takes his spot. Willy is left with Marleau and anyone not named Marner, Johnsson & Kapanen. You expecting much because I aint.

Most wouldn't. But then someone says that the better strategy is to move someone else into Kadri's spot, afterwhich I will respond...I agree because Willy isn't as good as Kadri and would fail at that role.
...seems like a fair and an unfair comment as well. The thing is that they are two different players with different roles. A center is an important and tough job. If you condemn Kadri for not producing more and then pretend that Nylander can produce more, you are deluding yourself. Certainly not at center when you have to find ways to drive a line with replacement level players. Even at a wing position on the top line, I don't see a huge gulf of points separating the two.

 

[Bluelines]

With sheltered minutes, are lowered expectations a reasonable measuring stick?

Two seasons ago, folks were talking Selke. And Leaf Captain roles.

Not sure you can call playing vs the other teams best lines playing sheltered minutes. The Selke talk was just overly passionate fans talking out their butts. When Bergeron is the poster boy for Selke, not sure we have anyone on the Leafs that comes close.

 

[Pookie]

I wouldn't call a guy on pace for 50 points overpaid at 4.5M.

I’d call him 2017 Bozak.

 

[Pookie]

Not sure you can call playing vs the other teams best lines playing sheltered minutes. The Selke talk was just overly passionate fans talking out their butts. When Bergeron is the poster boy for Selke, not sure we have anyone on the Leafs that comes close.

I don’t think he does play against the other team’s best lines anymore. I think we match fire with fire.

Stand to be corrected...

 

[Bluelines]

I don’t think he does play against the other team’s best lines anymore. I think we match fire with fire.

Stand to be corrected...

Can we get a ruling from the Advance Stat nerd please?

 

[ShaneFalco]

I wish you wouldn't see when an ignored member posts - especially in Kadri thread.

 

[nsleaf]

I wish you wouldn't see when an ignored member posts - especially in Kadri thread.

 

[Daisy Jane]

It has gotten slightly better this season, at least compared to the past.

because no one's bothering talking about him.
you know if people were to be critical, people would start. not worth the headache/drama

 

[Notsince67]

Two seasons ago, folks were talking Selke. And Leaf Captain role.

Low end 1C is what some folks yell. Should a low end 1C playing sheltered minutes and on the #1 PP expect a near 20% point reduction from just 20 seasons ago?

Are these lowered expectations a reasonable measuring stick?

Not sure what you are saying here but I get part of what you said.
Without a doubt, Kadri would be a 1st line center on a small hand full of teams. He is a very good second line center and an elite third line center. Unless you decimate the forward depth on the team, you need a really good 3rd line center or you are just wasting resources. I will agree the third line could produce more but it seems to be a place where people are shifted in and out. There is no continuity. Would love to see 4 weeks of steady linemates

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I don’t think he does play against the other team’s best lines anymore. I think we match fire with fire.

Stand to be corrected...

yep, he faces easier competition than both Matthews and Tavares. he doesn't get easy matchups, but he's definitely had an easier role this year

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

So context is clearly unimportant yet again.
Can you match up Willy's projected 3rd year against Kadri's 3rd full year? Oh...unfair! Let me try again.
Are you absolutely certain that Willy can even match Kadri's 25 points in the last 41 games in the second half of the season?
How about if Willy took Kadri's spot as a third line center and was thrown different line mates regularly. Would he do better that 50 point per season?
Would Kadri do better as AM winger that his 50 points?
I am not over-valuing Kadri because he does have some flaws. Clearly you over-value Willy. Be careful what you wish for.

Here is one scenario:
Kadri gets moved and Willy takes his spot. Willy is left with Marleau and anyone not named Marner, Johnsson & Kapanen. You expecting much because I aint.

Most wouldn't. But then someone says that the better strategy is to move someone else into Kadri's spot, afterwhich I will respond...I agree because Willy isn't as good as Kadri and would fail at that role.
...seems like a fair and an unfair comment as well. The thing is that they are two different players with different roles. A center is an important and tough job. If you condemn Kadri for not producing more and then pretend that Nylander can produce more, you are deluding yourself. Certainly not at center when you have to find ways to drive a line with replacement level players. Even at a wing position on the top line, I don't see a huge gulf of points separating the two.

Someone asked why he was paid more, so I pointed that in their career so far Nylander has been better. I'm not condemning Kadri just there is a reason Nylander was paid 7 and Kadri was paid 4.5.

Nylander is a better forward than Kadri, that's why when people talk about the Leafs it was the big three and the big four once Tavares joined, it was never the big 5.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I’d call him 2017 Bozak.

No reason to get nasty

 

[Mess]

Someone asked why he was paid more, so I pointed that in their career so far Nylander has been better. I'm not condemning Kadri just there is a reason Nylander was paid 7 and Kadri was paid 4.5.

Nylander is a better forward than Kadri, that's why when people talk about the Leafs it was the big three and the big four once Tavares joined, it was never the big 5.

Kadri and Rielly sweetheart deals were negotiated and signed by GM Lou Lam
Nylander deal was negotiated and signed by Kyle Dubas

In terms of bang for your cap $ buck both Kadri and Rielly are the best on Leafs books followed by Freddy Andersen (also a Lou Lam contract).

 

[Gary Nylund]

Another possibility is re-uniting Kadri with Marleau and Marner....Then Matthews with Johnsson and Kap...leaving Tavares with Nylander and Hyman...Give us more balance and we know Marner can help maximize Kadri's and Marleau's production...

Marner and Tavares won't be broken up and honestly, I'm sure it would be a good idea. I like the idea of Kadri with Kapanen and Johnsson, I was expecting that to be a line from day 1 actually but then Nylander wasn't signed ... maybe when Hyman gets back it will happen.

Matthews with Nylander and Marleau.
Tavares with Hyman and Marner.
Kadri with Kapanen and Johnsson.

I was expecting them to open the season with those lines. Maybe when Hyman gets back this will happen and playing with the kids re-ignites Kadri who goes on a roll and finishes with 55-60 points, wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Someone asked why he was paid more, so I pointed that in their career so far Nylander has been better. I'm not condemning Kadri just there is a reason Nylander was paid 7 and Kadri was paid 4.5.

Nylander is a better forward than Kadri, that's why when people talk about the Leafs it was the big three and the big four once Tavares joined, it was never the big 5.

People say all kinds of things and people were expecting big things from Nylander, that's why they were hanging labels on him. He will undoubtedly be better than Kadri one day but he hasn't proven it yet, at least I don't see how he has.

 

[kevsh]

The issue facing the Leafs forward group is there are too many shooters, not enough setup guys. Right now they basically have Marner and Nylander playing the latter role. The rest are goal scorers or grinders.

The Kadri line (w/Marleau and Kapanen) really need their own Marner (or, more realistically, a poor man's version) as all three are goal scorers.

 

[Notsince67]

Someone asked why he was paid more, so I pointed that in their career so far Nylander has been better. I'm not condemning Kadri just there is a reason Nylander was paid 7 and Kadri was paid 4.5.

Nylander is a better forward than Kadri, that's why when people talk about the Leafs it was the big three and the big four once Tavares joined, it was never the big 5.

I don't know. Kadri is a better center and I suspect Nylander is a better winger. Better is situational. Kadri has a rough ride in the beginning but he is largely seen as a bargain contract.
I think the jury is out on Willy's ceiling and therefore the value of his contract. I know people are pointing to advanced stats to say all is well but I see problems with seeing how few of his shots are actually getting to the net. He is shooting but there are a lot of blocks. This runs counter to possession as it is often a turnover. Yet somehow, Kadri hitting a post is worse.

 

[Fogelhund]

Kadri after 41 games.

2017/18 - 24 points
2018/19 - 25 points

Faceoffs

2017/18 - 50%
2018/19 - 52.4%

CF/ CF Rel. FF, FF Rel

2017/18 49.1%, -1.6% 47.7%. -1.7%
2018/19 53.6%, 4.1%, 51.2%, 2.8%

 

[Budz]

My take on Naz...

He is a competitive and proud player. My guess is that he feels less important this year and it subconsciously trickles into his play. My belief is that he needs to be continually challenged by Babcock. I personally would remove him from the first PP unit and ask Naz to Captain the second unit. He also needs to be stapled to the opposing Centre #1 in a shutdown role. This will happen more in playoffs - I rarely see Mike line matching hard core in the regular season.

Also, last and not least. I would NOT be surprised if 43 is traded. I think we could survive his loss and I am certain Kadri+ pick or prospect lands a good RHD. Problem is that his cap hit is so good.

 

[Notsince67]

Kadri and Rielly sweetheart deals were negotiated and signed by GM Lou Lam
Nylander deal was negotiated and signed by Kyle Dubas

In terms of bang for your cap $ buck both Kadri and Rielly are the best on Leafs books followed by Freddy Andersen (also a Lou Lam contract).

Zaits' kinds of sucks though

 

[glucker]

I’d call him 2017 Bozak.

Wasn't 2017 Bozak playing with JVR & Marner?

 

[Incetardis]

I don't see any issue with Kadri's play vs past years. He's on pace for 20ish goals and 50ish points. That's right where I'd expect, especially with JT and Matthews getting the majority of the ice time. At his cap hit, in a 3C role he still has great value to the team. He also has more posts and near misses than maybe any other player in the league. If he buries even a third of those he's closer to the 30g-30a player he's been in recent years. As long as he plays with an edge and chips in offensively from time to time like he has been, I can't see any issue with his performance