Why is Ivan Provorov so damn underrated?

[rintinw]

The Penguins really exposed Provorov IMO. I think he's quite overrated on HFBoards, he doesn't have the high-end tools to be a top-pairing guy IMO.

First 5 games in POs (if we exclude last game because of injury):

Player	GP	PT	+/-	TOI/GP	NonPP TOI/GP
Provorov	5	2	-2	25:44	23:48
Gostisbehere	5	1	-8	20:14	15:31
Gudas	5	0	-1	19:15	19:14
MacDonald	5	1	2	18:40	18:38
Manning	5	0	-3	17:24	17:22
Sanheim	4	1	-1	15:30	13:40
Hagg	1	0	0	11:50	11:50

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Are you sure the guy you are talking about is Provorov?

 

[rintinw]

Provorov is defensively a level above McAvoy

McAvoy better offensively



Provorov is paired with one of the leagues top point producing defenders and that affects his offense.

McAvoy is paired with Chara who handles the heavy lifting defensively.


It’s really close in my opinion. Slight edge to Provorov for me as I value defensive ability more than most I suppose. Both no question top pairing guys.

Really? Last time I checked the best point producing defenders last season (at 5on5 because that's when they are paired together) were: Karlsson, Klingberg, Ellis, Manson at arount 1.40 PT60. Provorov had 1.08 (30th in NHL), Gostisbehere 1.06 (33rd), Manning 1.03 (42th), MacDonald 0.96 (51st). For the record McAvoy had 1.15 (21st) and Chara had 0.90 (68th).

 

[pmwlker]

Really? Last time I checked the best point producing defenders last season (at 5on5 because that's when they are paired together) were: Karlsson, Klingberg, Ellis, Manson at arount 1.40 PT60. Provorov had 1.08 (30th in NHL), Gostisbehere 1.06 (33rd), Manning 1.03 (42th), MacDonald 0.96 (51st). For the record McAvoy had 1.15 (21st) and Chara had 0.90 (68th).

So Ghost isn’t one of the leagues top offensive defenseman with 65 points last year. Gotcha. I feel like you know exactly what I meant by my statement. Couldn’t give 2 shits about stats personally. Anyone who watches Philly on a regular basis understands the Provorov\Ghost pairing and what each brings to it.

 

[StevenB]

RiElLy.. jk lol Provorov is shaping up to be the cornerstone of that Flyers defense. All they need is to figure out their goaltending

 

[HenrikW]

Proporov would be a given future Norris candidate if not for Ghost. Now, who knows.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't think he's underrated. On the 31 Thoughts podcast they talked about him as a future Norris winner, which I don't see happening given that Norris winners usually score 60+ points.

Friedman also sad Ghost had a not so great year in 17-18, which is the dumbest thing he's ever said by a wide margin.

 

[BeastoftheEast85]

I don’t think he is underrated. People mostly consider him one of the top young defensemen in the league and rightfully so. It’s not like people are screening he is the best form the rooftops but they aren’t screaming he sucks either.

I personally consider him that big ***** mistake the Devils made by not drafting him, going for positional need over the obvious BPA.

 

[McNuge]

He is underrated because he plays on Philly. Claude Giroux is one of the best players in the NHL and never gets the recognition he deserves.

 

[stepdad gaary]

First 5 games in POs (if we exclude last game because of injury):

Player	GP	PT	+/-	TOI/GP	NonPP TOI/GP
Provorov	5	2	-2	25:44	23:48
Gostisbehere	5	1	-8	20:14	15:31
Gudas	5	0	-1	19:15	19:14
MacDonald	5	1	2	18:40	18:38
Manning	5	0	-3	17:24	17:22
Sanheim	4	1	-1	15:30	13:40
Hagg	1	0	0	11:50	11:50

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Are you sure the guy you are talking about is Provorov?

do you really think those numbers you picked tell us anything about his quality of play?



also to answer the OP, he's a good young player but people dont often rant and rave about 40 point defensemen. He will be a lot better soon and he's a great player but i just think he's not talked about because he isnt all there yet. not an insult.

 

[JoVel]

Probably because he had that -5 game.

 

[ponder719]

I agree with the consensus here. Provorov isn't underrated, he's underhyped. He's rounding into form as one of the best defensemen in the league, but because he doesn't play a flashy style, and the Flyers are neither a top contender nor the annoying violent pests we used to be, he kind of blends into the background. For a terribly inexact comparison, he's Vlasic, and Ghost is Burns. Given time, this should self-correct when he's anchoring our defense and we're regularly making deep postseason runs (I hope we will, at least), but it's going to take a year or two, probably when Carter Hart stabilizes the goaltending situation. Until then, he likely won't be in the news as much as you'd expect, given his performance.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

He's not underrated to those that watch him, he may be to those that only read boxscores. Terrific player and D man. I have him only behind McDavid, Eichel, Barzal in a redraft of the very good draft class of 2015.

 

[StoneHands]

do you really think those numbers you picked tell us anything about his quality of play?



also to answer the OP, he's a good young player but people dont often rant and rave about 40 point defensemen. He will be a lot better soon and he's a great player but i just think he's not talked about because he isnt all there yet. not an insult.

Considering he was a -2 while his partner was a -8, yes it says a lot. It basically says that any time Ghost was on the ice without Provorov he was getting scored on. Provorov was playing almost half the game and was a -2 in games where the Flyers were outscored 15-5 at ES. The team was -2 during his half of the game and -8 during the other half when he wasn't on the ice. Provorov was good in the playoffs, Ghost was terrible.

 

[Semantics]

He's not underrated, like most young defensemen with impressive numbers he's a train wreck defensively. But I have no doubt that with another couple years of experience he'll mature into a top 20 d-man in the league.

 

[pmwlker]

He's not underrated, like most young defensemen with impressive numbers he's a train wreck defensively. But I have no doubt that with another couple years of experience he'll mature into a top 20 d-man in the league.

Train wreck defensively? That’s a new one. How so?

 

[StoneHands]

He's not underrated, like most young defensemen with impressive numbers he's a train wreck defensively. But I have no doubt that with another couple years of experience he'll mature into a top 20 d-man in the league.

Are you in the wrong thread?

 

[SotasicA]

Why is Ivan Provorov so damn underrated?

Every time I've seen him play he's looked bad. Inept defensively, plenty of minuses. Must be a coincidence because I haven't seen him play more than a couple of times (usually against the Hawks). Everyone else seems him on high. I've often wondered why is he so overrated.

 

[pmwlker]

Every time I've seen him play he's looked bad. Inept defensively, plenty of minuses. Must be a coincidence because I haven't seen him play more than a couple of times (usually against the Hawks). Everyone else seems him on high. I've often wondered why is he so overrated.

So the basis of your opinion is a few games? I see. Have a good one.

 

[StoneHands]

Every time I've seen him play he's looked bad. Inept defensively, plenty of minuses. Must be a coincidence because I haven't seen him play more than a couple of times (usually against the Hawks). Everyone else seems him on high. I've often wondered why is he so overrated.

It seems like you formed an opinion based on one game which happened to be his 3rd career game in the NHL. Since that game he's played the Hawks 3 time and has 2 goals and is a +1 (would be a +2 but he was on the ice for an empty netter).

 

[stepdad gaary]

Considering he was a -2 while his partner was a -8, yes it says a lot. It basically says that any time Ghost was on the ice without Provorov he was getting scored on. Provorov was playing almost half the game and was a -2 in games where the Flyers were outscored 15-5 at ES. The team was -2 during his half of the game and -8 during the other half when he wasn't on the ice. Provorov was good in the playoffs, Ghost was terrible.

is +/- making a comeback? what is this?

 

[StoneHands]

is +/- making a comeback? what is this?

When one player has a much different +/- from his own defensive partner, it kind of shows who was the problem. Provorov was fine, it was Ghost who was giving the puck away all series. if it makes you feel better using advanced stats, he was also a positive Corsi in a series where they were dominated in shots.

 

[stepdad gaary]

When one player has a much different +/- from his own defensive partner, it kind of shows who was the problem. Provorov was fine, it was Ghost who was giving the puck away all series.

actually it shows one player was on the ice and another player wasnt. thats all it tells you. beyond that, especially over a 5 game (!!!!!) sample its completely irrelevant and should tell you nothing. doesnt take a data scientist to realize that.

 

[StoneHands]

actually it shows one player was on the ice and another player wasnt. thats all it tells you. beyond that, especially over a 5 game (!!!!!) sample its completely irrelevant and should tell you nothing. doesnt take a data scientist to realize that.

Right, it tells you that when Provorov was on the ice without Ghost they weren't getting scored on but when he was on the ice with Ghost they were scored on slightly more than they were scoring and when Ghost was on the ice without Provorov they were getting scored on like it was going out of style. I mean, all you had to do was watch the games and you would know that Provorov played well and Ghost was the problem. I can show you stats and you can ignore them all you want but it's pretty much common knowledge that Ghost **** the bed and Provorov was fine.

 

[Semantics]

Train wreck defensively? That’s a new one. How so?

Last time I saw him play Crosby skated circles around him, and he was on the ice for like 6 goals against.

 

[StoneHands]

Last time I saw him play Crosby skated circles around him, and he was on the ice for like 6 goals against.

You mean the game he played when his collarbone was no longer connected to his shoulder and he said he lost feeling in his arm during the game?

Provorov reveals what nasty injury he played through