Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

[daver]

Without doing the math, I think he doesn't quite have the peak. Howe's peak was higher than Lemieux's. But that doesn't really matter because Crosby, as you said, was injured too much.

Mario hit a higher offensive peak in at least two, maybe three seasons, and has the more dominant Art Ross wins.

FWIW, Crosby's PPG dominance over his peers matches Howe's best over 14 seasons.

 

[pi314]

Orr and Howe didn't play in the 80s, though.

Or Harvey, Beliveau, Richard, Shore etc.

My point is still the same.

There are people on here who think that past 1980, the league has produced no one worthy of the GOAT.

The game today is better, bigger, and faster than it's ever been.

 

[Eisen]

My point is still the same.

There are people on here who think that past 1980, the league has produced no one worthy of the GOAT.

The game today is better, bigger, and faster than it's ever been.

Considering that there are only 4 who even have a case that is not that surprising, though. In addition, it's not really accurate as Lemieux played until the 00s and had great seasons in the 90s.

 

[Eisen]

Mario hit a higher offensive peak in at least two, maybe three seasons, and has the more dominant Art Ross wins.

FWIW, Crosby's PPG dominance over his peers matches Howe's best over 14 seasons.

But that is a bit tricky. Didn't Crosby's highest PPGs come in seasons where he didn't play much?

 

[daver]

But that is a bit tricky. Didn't Crosby's highest PPGs come in seasons where he didn't play much?

His PPG dominance may be even better if he did play more in those seasons. In any event, Crosby has played in more than enough regular season and playoff games to make a reasonable and fair comparison.

 

[Eisen]

His PPG dominance may be even better if he did play more in those seasons. In any event, Crosby has played in more than enough regular season and playoff games to make a reasonable and fair comparison.

It might have been or it might have dropped. He did play enough games overall to compare. I still see an advantage for Howe but it's definitely worth arguing. Like in the thread in the HoH forum.

 

[daver]

It might have been or it might have dropped. He did play enough games overall to compare. I still see an advantage for Howe but it's definitely worth arguing. Like in the thread in the HoH forum.

Not arguing against Howe having the advantage but the OP is wondering about GOAT caliber players. Crosby is close to Howe in caliber.

 

[Eisen]

Not arguing against Howe having the advantage but the OP is wondering about GOAT caliber players. Crosby is close to Howe in caliber.

PPG-lead wise absolutely.

 

[Star Ocean]

Agreed 100%. Maradona being GOAT is a complite joke. His numbers are nothing to write home about.

 

[daver]

PPG-lead wise absolutely.

It's not an easy question to answer given the major differences in the eras of hockey over the years and different scoring levels. Wayne, Orr and Mario put up ridiculous numbers at a time the league was expanding rapidly.

Unlike individual sports like tennis and golf, you cannot expect a team to reel off three or four Cups in a row anymore. In comparison to basketball and football, it is much harder for one player to influence their team's chances at winning.

Time will tell if what Crosby, OV and McDavid are doing should be held in higher regard if they stand out among what the best in the next 20 to 30 years do.

 

[KevinRedkey]

His PPG dominance may be even better if he did play more in those seasons. In any event, Crosby has played in more than enough regular season and playoff games to make a reasonable and fair comparison.

I disagree with this. I think Crosby's PPG numbers are inflated in those seasons, due to playing less. He's never replicated it over a full season, and it's not uncommon for players to put up a better pace over the first half of a season, before fatigue rolls in.

That said, I'm nitpicking. He's have likely won 1 or more Art Ross trophies in those years, and his career speaks for itself.

 

[Eisen]

It's not an easy question to answer given the major differences in the eras of hockey over the years and different scoring levels. Wayne, Orr and Mario put up ridiculous numbers at a time the league was expanding rapidly.

Unlike individual sports like tennis and golf, you cannot expect a team to reel off three or four Cups in a row anymore. In comparison to basketball and football, it is much harder for one player to influence their team's chances at winning.

Time will tell if what Crosby, OV and McDavid are doing should be held in higher regard if they stand out among what the best in the next 20 to 30 years do.

In my opinion they had seasons that will age quite well. They are already among the very best. Just a hunch.

 

[JayKing]

Because no other sport had a Wayne Gretzky.

The NBA has Wilt but they don't want to acknowledge him because it makes the sport look bad to have such a dominant force early on in the sport.

 

[Eisen]

People seem to forget that he was a midfielder playing, at that time, in the toughest league. He's not my very best but he is surely worthy to be part of that discussion. Still, don't like him very much.

 

[daver]

I disagree with this. I think Crosby's PPG numbers are inflated in those seasons, due to playing less. He's never replicated it over a full season, and it's not uncommon for players to put up a better pace over the first half of a season, before fatigue rolls in.

That said, I'm nitpicking. He's have likely won 1 or more Art Ross trophies in those years, and his career speaks for itself.

So what do you think his PPG numbers would have been if he played full seasons? And whatever those PPG numbers are, do they win him more Art Rosses; the reason why noone places him along side Howe?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I disagree with this. I think Crosby's PPG numbers are inflated in those seasons, due to playing less. He's never replicated it over a full season, and it's not uncommon for players to put up a better pace over the first half of a season, before fatigue rolls in.

That said, I'm nitpicking. He's have likely won 1 or more Art Ross trophies in those years, and his career speaks for itself.

It is common for elite players to peak from ages 23-25, however.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The NBA has Wilt but they don't want to acknowledge him because it makes the sport look bad to have such a dominant force early on in the sport.

Wilt played against short white stiffs.

 

[Los merengues]

So you anwser to my Post of his effectivity by video of worthless circus tricks.

Goals win games. Are the hardest thing to come by and Maradona is not close to Messi or Ronaldo.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

So you anwser to my Post of his effectivity by video of worthless circus tricks.

Goals win games. Are the hardest thing to come by and Maradona is not close to Messi or Ronaldo.

You are right that Maradona is not close to CR7. He's way better than him. Messi is way better than CR7 too.

Your logic sounds like that of a kid. Who was the best player in Serie A last year? Before you say Ronaldo, check the goal scoring chart. There goes your argument.

 

[Los merengues]

You are right that Maradona is not close to CR7. He's way better than him. Messi is way better than CR7 too.

Your logic sounds like that of a kid. Who was the best player in Serie A last year? Before you say Ronaldo, check the goal scoring chart. There goes your argument.

A 33 year old Ronaldo. For 9 years at Madrid the Guy scored at over a goal/game rate. Maradona might be more talented, but still no contest. Numbers speak for themselfs and yes obviously Messi is, since hes the best ever.

 

[Star Ocean]

So you anwser to my Post of his effectivity by video of worthless circus tricks.

Goals win games. Are the hardest thing to come by and Maradona is not close to Messi or Ronaldo.

 

[Star Ocean]

A 33 year old Ronaldo. For 9 years at Madrid the Guy scored at over a goal/game rate. Maradona might be more talented, but still no contest. Numbers speak for themselfs and yes obviously Messi is, since hes the best ever.

Ronaldo has never played for a bottom team like napoli.

 

[Los merengues]

Ronaldo has never played for a bottom team like napoli.

Maradona played for Barca with little over 0.5 g/gp there. Argentina national team with little over 0.3 g/gp. But yeah I guess.

 

[Star Ocean]

Maradona played for Barca with little over 0.5 g/gp there. Argentina national team with little over 0.3 g/gp. But yeah I guess.

Lol maradona lifted his nationl team like messi nor ronaldo could never do.

His 1986 wc performance is simply GOAT.

 

[T REX]

brady has no argument for the GOAT. he's a better than average QB that has won a lot of championships. but he does not play the game better than anyone else by far. that's what a GOAT is.

I dislike Brady but Brady is the GOAT in football. It was Montana but Brady has surpassed even Joe. Your definition of GOAT is wrong. You are adding "by far" and that is completely made up by you.

ANd are we talking about Maradona for Volleyball GOAT?