Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by johntanner1787, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    Top 6-8 fairly easy? Lol not really.

    LeBron, Jordan, wilt, Kareem, Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq. That took 2 seconds, there are more too. Bird probably isn't top 10.
     
  2. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    LeBron lost to the likes of Duncan who was well into his mid-30s and past his prime.

    Unlike LeBron Jordan also occasionally had to actually play half decent teams in the East en route to the Finals like the Magic, Knicks, Pacers, etc.

    He's a great player (LeBron). He's just not on Jordan's level, if he was he'd have eaten those Spurs teams alive after the first Finals, Duncan was past his prime, and ripped corny ass Jason Terry a new one in the Finals.

    Lakers were "way past their prime" ... people forget Magic was only like 2-3 years older than Jordan, lol and Worthy was like 1 year older. The Bulls were actually the older team in that Finals.
     
  3. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    Bird was a better player than Magic, you would know that if you actually watched basketball at that time.
     
  4. ElLeetch

    ElLeetch Registered User

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    because the CBA neuters individual talent
     
  5. GlassesJacketShirt

    GlassesJacketShirt Formerly known as BLASPHEMOUS

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    Looks like a hockey thread, secretly a Jordan-James barbershop debate.

    For the record, I actually do believe Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid would have absolutely destroyed 80s hockey, but alas the sport is just too different now.
     
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  6. saska sault

    saska sault Registered User

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    Is Mike Trout better at baseball than Gretzky was at hockey?
     
  7. Aladyyn

    Aladyyn counting stats are the devil

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    Gasol was better than any of LeBron's teammates. Until this next season starts, of course.
     
  8. bambamcam4ever

    bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    I'm a huge Crosby fan and think he has gotten the very most out of his natural athletic ability, but he isn't Lebron. Lebron is possibly the greatest athlete to ever walk this earth and when you combine that with an ability to process the game of basketball better than all but a handful of players ever you get the GOAT.
     
  9. johntanner1787

    johntanner1787 Registered User

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    Super Bowls are a team achievement and NE has always put a great team around brady while having Belichek as the coach is a luxury any player would love to have.

    Manning has Brady beat in completed passes, touchdowns, yards, percentage of completed passes, and yards per game.

    In terms of accolades, Manning beats him in MVPs, Bert Bells, Pro Bowl MVPs, Offensive Player of the Years, times leading the league in passing rates and touchdowns and has been selected to 7 first teams and 10 all-pro teams compared to just 3 and 5 from Brady, respectively.

    From a record standpoint, Manning holds the all-time record for career touchdowns, touchdowns in one season, passing yards in a season, game winning drives, career comebacks, touchdowns in one game and for accolades like all-pro selections and league MVPs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  10. johntanner1787

    johntanner1787 Registered User

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    He had the advantage in 2012 as well. The big 3 were all in their primes while every key player on OKC was like 22/23 years old. The only player that was already elite was KD. Russ and Harden weren't even half the players they ended up becoming today, and Ibaka's offensive game wasn't as great then either, although his defense was already strongly developed.
     
  11. johntanner1787

    johntanner1787 Registered User

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    MJ had as flawless of a career as it gets. He only played 11 full seasons in his prime with Chicago and managed to accomplish more than LeBron in 16 years and counting.
     
  12. johntanner1787

    johntanner1787 Registered User

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    Regardless, Ovie is not close to being the GOAT debate even if he scores more goals then Gretzky and neither is anyone since Mario.
     
  13. boredmale

    boredmale Registered User Sponsor

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    If you ignore hockey from about 1966 - 2000, there has always been a certain level of parity. Nothing Gordy Howe did for instance stood head and shoulders above other players statistically
     
  14. MikeK

    MikeK Registered User

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    Other sports and the way they are played allow for more individual play and talent to rise above. Hockey does not. It's too fast, not as much room to maneuver, and the way the game is officiated so inconstantly seriously cripples talent to flourish. It's all about parity. The NHL is one big participation award. Rather than reward skill and talent it tries it's best to be as even keeled as possible.
     
  15. MadLuke

    MadLuke Registered User

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    Did anyone outside Gretzky stood out more than Howe stats wise (and Orr if we limit among defenseman)

    1950-51 to 53-54

    Howe: 348 pts
    Lindsay: 261 pts
    Richard : 238 pts

    Arguably the player that separated himself from the pack the most outside Gretzky before Lemieux got really good.

    In that 52-53 season:
    1.Gordie Howe* • DET95
    2.Ted Lindsay* • DET71
    3.Maurice Richard* • MTL61
    4.Alex Delvecchio* • DET59
    33.8% above second place and more than 50% above any non team mate.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. The Beyonder

    The Beyonder Registered User

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    Because goats of old pretty much played in a different league. Goaltending, coaching and parity has gone up. No one will ever touch gretzky's record. Its like someone put on cheat modes in a video game. Thats why. Mcdavid, Crosby and ovi would be getting 200+ points if you dumped them in the 80s.
     
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  17. MadLuke

    MadLuke Registered User

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    You really do not need to score 200+ pts to compete with goat status with Grezkty, like Greztky didn't need to score 2 goal a game to compete with Joe Malone and Patrick Roy didn't had to beat Sawchuck goal against average to compete with him, influential people for the most part can adjust for the era.

    That said some year's of Gretzky peak wasn't that different in high end scoring vs now if you remove him:

    Points
    1.Wayne Gretzky* • EDM205
    2.Paul Coffey* • EDM126
    3.Michel Goulet* • QUE122
    4.Peter Stastny* • QUE119
    5.Mike Bossy* • NYI118


    1.Nikita Kucherov • TBL128
    2.Connor McDavid • EDM116
    3.Patrick Kane • CHI110
    4.Leon Draisaitl • EDM105
    5.Sidney Crosby • PIT100
    Brad Marchand • BOS100
     
  18. Ducks in a row

    Ducks in a row Go Ducks Quack Quack

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    Q: How many people in the 80's scored 200 points?
    A: 1 and that was Wayne Gretzky NHL & WHA Single Season Leaders and Records for Points | Hockey-Reference.com

    Crosby,McDavid and Ovechkin would not be getting 200 points in the 80's while having to use 80's equipment playing under 80's rules. None of them are as good a Super Mario and he never scored 200 points in a season during the 80's so if Super Mario couldn't no one could other then The Great One.
     
  19. MikeK

    MikeK Registered User

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    Ovechkin is the only one of those 3 that may have had a chance of surviving in the 80s. The other two of Crosby and McDavid would have been helped off the ice in body bags.
     
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  20. kgboomer

    kgboomer Registered User

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    Yeah right.... give Semenko, McClelland and McSorley to those guys with no instigator penalty like it was in those years and they would have been just fine. Anyone touching Gretzky, even just a little bit, were getting their brain smashed by those goons when he was making those 200 pts season. Semenko was even playing on Gretzky's line a lot just to make sure if anyone was not getting the message. Crosby and McDavid would never have been abused like they are and would have been free to do whatever they damn well pleased.

    Many of the old fans will never forgive Bettman for getting the instigator rule in the NHL and almost killed fighting. The stars were protected back then.
     
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  21. psycat

    psycat Registered User

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    Twilight-Lemieux after 3 years of retirement demolished the league just a couple of years before Crosby entered it.
    If you actually saw Lemieux play you would know Crosby is just not close to as dominating of a player.
     
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  22. psycat

    psycat Registered User

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    Nadal is a doped up freak though, Fuentes client. Federer might also dope of course but the former is certain.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  23. Leafsdude7

    Leafsdude7 Stand-Up Philosopher

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    Has anyone pointed out that hockey has become a lot more team-focused than most other leagues, therefore making individual success less important?

    Pair that with the fact that the most individualistic position in hockey (goalie) has arguably been about as weak as ever since the late-90s as far as producing goalies that put up consistent high-calibre results every season, and you're looking at very little chance at someone who breaks through the pack as a legitimate GOAT.
     
  24. Weztex

    Weztex Registered User

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    Statistically, Howe probably had the second highest offensive peak after Gretzky (given that Lemieux rarely played full seasons).

    1950-51
    1.Gordie Howe* • DET86
    2.Maurice Richard* • MTL66
    3.Max Bentley* • TOR62
    4.Sid Abel* • DET61
    Ted Kennedy* • TOR61
    Milt Schmidt* • BOS61
    1951-52
    1.Gordie Howe* • DET86
    2.Ted Lindsay* • DET69
    3.Elmer Lach* • MTL65
    4.Don Raleigh • NYR61
    5.Sid Smith • TOR57
    1952-53
    1.Gordie Howe* • DET95
    2.Ted Lindsay* • DET71
    3.Maurice Richard* • MTL61
    4.Alex Delvecchio* • DET59
    Wally Hergesheimer • NYR59
     
  25. JasonRoseEh

    JasonRoseEh Registered User

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    In Ovechkin and Crosby they have but the NHL is too mired in nostalgia and inflated stats by era to call it like it is. They're both all time consensus top 10 players RIGHT NOW, all that's left to be decided is where they end up.
     
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