Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by johntanner1787, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. kgboomer

    kgboomer Registered User

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    Again, you're talking about an NFL player. Many will view Brady as a specialist, a QB who can only throw the ball. He's not a real athlete football player like a Jim Brown or Jerry Rice. That's why so many of the players are not viewing Brady as the greatest football player of all time, but most of them will acknowledge him as the greatest QB of all time.
     
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  2. thadd

    thadd Oil4Life

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    Maybe it's because the sport isn't growing very quickly outside of the countries that always end up showing up at the Olympics.
    Sweden, Finland, America, Canada and Russia have been producing quality players for a while now. Once in a while we get a solid player from Czech Republic, Solvakia, Switzerland or Germany and in the past a few of those teams have had a handful of great players, but right now none of these 4 countries are consistent at pumping out solid hockey players.

    That's 8 countries and there are a ton of sports out there that get a lot of exposure now. Hockey will probably always be #1 in Canada and it'll probably never be a a top 4 sport in basketball and I don't know the other countries well enough to know where hockey ranks, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that hockey is probably as influential in the big 5 as it's ever going to be.

    If we want another goat we need a larger player pool and that involves getting more countries into the sport. Considerably assets and time has been spent selling hockey to China, but I highly doubt we'll see a great Chinese player playing in the NHL. There are a bunch of problems.

    #1 - China has 1.4 billion people, but there are less than 500 combined indoor and outdoor skating rinks throughout the entire country.
    #2 - The areas of China with the highest population density are freaking hot. Tons of people there haven't met snow and I highly doubt there's an interest in building enough skating rinks to even give people the chance to give hockey a chance.
    #3 - In China before university your parents either enroll you in a regular public/private school, they send you to an art/dance school (don't need to learn a 2nd language, history or science classes) or if you're really lucky someone identifies you as athletically gifted and you're allowed to attend a sports academy where you have a much lighter study load like at the art/dance schools. Doesn't fix the language barrier.
    #4 - There's a stigma attached to all contact sports in China. Heck, I've heard parents tell me that soccer and recreational skiing are dangerous sports that they worry about their children participating in.

    Yes, there are hundreds of countries out there, maybe NHL's choice to try to get China into it is just the wrong one. Maybe one day they'll target some other countries that will become more suitable and we can find our next GOAT.
     
  3. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    Even if we were in the midst of a new GOAT, the hockey watching audience would have a hard time recognizing that player simply because of the outrageous point totals from the 1980s.
     
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  4. P10p

    P10p Registered User

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    Comparing 3 pointers in basketball and goals in hockey makes no ssense. In basketball you get 2s as well. In hockey goals is the only commodity
     
  5. thedustman

    thedustman Registered User

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    Doesnt even have a gold glove...
     
  6. thedustman

    thedustman Registered User

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    Though i don’t understand how the thread title makes sense (while the post content has some solid thought), I will say that i don’t understand why people don’t see how the steroid era of baseball blanketed the reign of ken griffey jr.

    If the OP title is correct, then my guess would be the advancement of weightlifting and bodybuilding effects sports without skates more... but just a guess.
     
  7. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    He took one mediocre Cavs team to the Finals because the East was pathetically weak and then got waxed by the Spurs. The other Cavs teams he stacked the deck by trying to super-team with Kyrie and Love (two other All-Star players), Durant just dummied him by doing it better.

    To be honest given allllll the hype, his Miami era was somewhat disappointing ... 2 titles only when he said they'd win 4, 5, 6, "easy" (lol) etc.

    LeBron's stats will overall come down as he ages, which happens to everyone, so that 3 ppg gap is likely to grow while his advantage in rebounds/assists are also likely to shrink.

    I don't even think he's a defacto 1B at all. Kareem Abdul Jabbar I think has a far better case for being the 2nd best player of all time. 6 titles, 6 time MVP, all-time most points.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  8. Strakanator

    Strakanator Registered User

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    Absolutely, a much better team has better puck possession. They have the puck more often which translates into Mcdavid getting the puck more often. The teams also spend a significant more time in the offensive zone and get more power plays.

    The better defensemen can also make much better outlet passes to Mcdavid streaking up the ice and in the offensive zone. One 50 goal scorer is great. However, having an entire team of good players is much much better. Also, being on a good power play nets Mcdavid so many more points.
     
  9. amnesiac

    amnesiac Space Oddity

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    I thought so too for the longest time, and then Brady just kept winning Superbowls. Sure NE was better than Indianapolis, but its not like they had the best D in the league or a great RB. Brady is by far the reason they keep winning.... If anything Manning was the one who was gifted a SB in Denver. He was awful.
     
  10. bambamcam4ever

    bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    Belichick is the reason they win. There are a lot of guys who could have become "Tom Brady"
     
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  11. bambamcam4ever

    bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    Lets discuss when you return to this universe.
     
  12. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    l
    You can't really argue the points and probably know dick all about Kareem anyway (yes basketball existed before 1991) so that wouldn't be a fruitful conversation anyway.

    Crosby is very comparable to LeBron, same number of titles and roughly the same range of individual accolades.

    Neither dominated as Gretzky or Jordan did.
     
  13. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    That dude is clueless, he thinks Larry Bird is better than LeBron :laugh::laugh:
     
  14. NeverBeNormal

    NeverBeNormal Registered User

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    Everyone in the NBA gave up their GOAT shot the second Lebron took his talents to South Beach. He couldn't do it himself, swallowed his pride and got himself someone who'd done it before.
     
  15. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    When did I say that?

    Larry Bird is pretty ****ing good player by the way, if you don't know that, you don't know ****.

    In 12 seasons, Bird won 3 titles and 3 MVPs averaging 24.3 ppg, 10 rpg, 6.3 apg.

    LeBron has 3 titles in 16 seasons.
     
  16. Blades of Steel

    Blades of Steel log off.

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    Because the skill gap has been closed considerably. Gretzky wouldn’t have been Gretzky in today’s NHL. He would be more along the lines of Crosby. Yes, that’s a compliment to them both. Ovechkin and Crosby would have cleaned house even more so but the skill gap is tough in all sports these days.
     
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  17. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    That Miami era is really underwhelming too ... only 2 championships .... Kobe won as many with Pau Gasol.
     
  18. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    Jordan definitely did things himself. Went very far without Pippen lol
     
  19. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    I know who Bird is, relax. Not in the same conversation as LeBron.
     
  20. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    I doubt you ever actually saw him play if you think LeBron is in a far different category. Bird is a top 6-8 player probably fairly easy.

    He's also one of the most deadly clutch players ever.
     
  21. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    Not everyone goes running off like a coward when things are too hard to go join a new super-team. Jordan didn't run off to join Magic on the Lakers, he suffered with the Bulls and took his lumps until he had a half way decent team around where the Pistons could not just triple team him constantly and win (barely).

    Once that happened, nothing was stopping the Bulls. If he had been drafted by the Blazers who took Sam Bowie instead (lol, biggest screw up in modern pro sports), he'd have had Clyde Drexler as a no.2 option from day 1 and maybe wins 7-9 titles because you don't have to wait as long for Pippen to develop.

    He chose to stay in Chicago and compete even when the deck was not stacked in his favor because that's what character and competitiveness is about.
     
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  22. bambamcam4ever

    bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    Yeah, that 1-9 record in the playoffs without Pippen really shows why he's the GOAT lol.
     
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  23. bambamcam4ever

    bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    Did Lebron steal your girlfriend or something?

    The funny thing is that is doesn't matter whether Lebron is a coward or anti-competitive, or whatever other insults you throw his way. He is very clearly the best non-center to ever play the sport.
     
  24. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    He's a great player, I have him no.3 or no.4 probably all-time after Jordan, Kareem, and Wilt right now. He is actually fairly similar to Crosby, 3 titles for both, similar individual accolades. If he wants to overtake one of the top 3, IMO he needs a 4th title at least, 3 is on the low side when even guys like Kobe have 5.

    In hockey individual players don't get hyped up as much as basketball. But if Crosby was a basketball player, he'd basically be LeBron, that's just not good enough in hockey to make you GOAT.
     
  25. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    Compete against who LOL. Jordan's competition in every finals was garbage, especially compared to what LeBron has had to face. The deck was always stacked in Jordan's favour, his team won 55 games without him ffs. He had the best coach ever and 2 HOFers in Pippen and Rodman playing against teams who at the most had 2 (Stockton/Malone), but usually 1 (Barkley, Payton, Clyde). Lakers were way past their prime when they played. Compare the crap Jordan faced to the teams LeBron has faced, other than the mavs.

    Spurs 07: 3 HOFers in their prime vs 1 LeBron

    Okc 12: 2 HOFers in their prime plus another future one in Harden vs 3 for LeBron

    spurs 13/14: 4 HOFers vs 3 for LeBron (Duncan and Manu were past their prime but so was Wade)

    warriors 15: 3 HOFers vs 1 LeBron

    Warriors 16: 3 HOFers vs 2 for LeBron, 3 if you wanna include Love

    Warriors 17/18: 4 HOFers vs 2 for LeBron

    For all this "super team" bs people like you love to spit out, LeBron has been at an advantage in literally 1 finals (11), a disadvantage in 5 (07, 15-18) and 50/50 in 3 (12-14). Where as Jordan had the more stacked team in every finals he appeared in.
     
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