Why is Gretzky so underrated on HF?

shtorm2005

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Aug 9, 2015
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It is beyond me, and I mean BEYOND me, how anyone can use dirty play as an argument? Today's league is so soft that I cry myself to sleep, and not a single player today (bar Reaves) would be anywhere near being called tough during Gretzky's time.

There are no good hitters, no mean players. Sure, if you think Matheson is a bad ass for wrestling down Pettersson...

Gretzky was not hit because you could not catch him. Potvin called him "the shadow", because he was so evasive. And you could not find a Potvin level hitter in today's league.
"you could not catch him" , who are you referring to? Nobodies from the '80s? Modern hockey is based on speed, how can he dominate the same way?
 
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Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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No I'm talking about overall talent. Lemieux's brain was on Gretzky's level but not quite there, he just was injured far more, half assed it at the beginning of his career then played in a lower scoring era in the second half of his career. Lemieux was much better at 35-38 in a harder league after not playing for 3 1/2 years, that has a lot to do with his IQ.

Ok that makes sense, you may well be right. When I think of most talented the first two names that come to mind are Orr and Lemieux and ... it's tough but I might have to go with Lemieux as well.
 

Gary Nylund

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He was greatest because he was an inventor, pionner of the new age hockey, with nothing much left today to invent, I doubt he would dominate the same way. And I don't have to watch his whole career to come to this conclusion.

What is it you think Gretzky "invented"?
 

authentic

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Ok that makes sense, you may well be right. When I think of most talented the first two names that come to mind are Orr and Lemieux and ... it's tough but I might have to go with Lemieux as well.

Yeah it's a common opinion, though for all we know maybe Gretzky actually was the most talented too? Talent is something we like to think we can gauge, but really no one who is the best at their craft didn't put in years and years of consistent practice. We really don't know.
 
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Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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Ok then, my age proves hockey isn't much harder today.

Yes, it's harder to get points these days.... and Gretzky wouldn't get 215 points today. I have no doubt that he'd put up 130-150, while the best of the rest were around 95-105. He just saw the game on a different level than anyone else, at least that I've seen, it was like the game was played in slow motion in his head.

Sorry, if you'd seen him play regularly, you would understand why the points that you've raised, aren't particularly valid. Sure, he wouldn't score what he did, but he'd still outpace the rest of the league by a large margin
 

Beukeboom

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"you could not catch him" , who are you referring to? Nobodies from the '80s? Modern hockey is based on speed, how can he dominate the same way?
Lidstrom was just as evasive in the fast paced "modern" hockey. A superior brain beats speed any day of the weak. Wayne was by no means a slow skater. Quite the opposite.

And I still have not figured out how Semenko, and later McSorley, could deter guys like Probert or Dave Brown from taking a run at Wayne? They would deter a Matheson thou.
 

Stubu

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Dec 16, 2015
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Meaning no disrespect to anyone for something that isn't their fault, but the average age of HF posters is most definitely low enough that alot of posters here weren't even born when Gretzky retired and the large majority of posters here didn't watch him during his prime.

I'm certain that I under rate Howe and Orr for the same reason, though I think I treat them more fair than what Gretzky gets around here sometimes. I think sports fans just want to witness greatness, and are willing to allow their opinion to be tainted by recency bias too easily in order to facilitate that need for greatness.
You're way younger than me if you think "recency bias" is a cool phrase.

Tikkanen was the best of the bunch anyway.
 

Chips

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Aug 19, 2015
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People only try to downplay his numbers cuz so many people drastically overrate him as a god that no modern player could ever possible replicate. Extremeness prompts extremeness.
 

ManofSteel55

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Aug 15, 2013
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"you could not catch him" , who are you referring to? Nobodies from the '80s? Modern hockey is based on speed, how can he dominate the same way?

Gretzky being uncatchable wasn't entirely speed based. He was quick, but he was often referred to as "slippery" by opponents. They thought they had him lined up, went for a hit, and all of a sudden he wasn't there. It wasn't just the slugs of the 80's who couldn't catch him, it was guys all through the 90's as well, even when he was old and had slowed down, you rarely saw Wayne take a big hit. Yes, today's game is faster, but that doesn't mean that he would all of a sudden be unable to sidestep guys or slip around hits. If anything, he would be better today, there is no clutch and grab today, and guys are getting called for things on star players that they didn't used to get called for. Plus, special teams is more important than ever, and Gretzky is the best powerplay quarterback ever. Teams were afraid to get penalties against him because they scored so often.
 

shtorm2005

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You're the one who called him an "inventor", is guesses all you have?
Isn't that logical guess? I doubt modern players don't watch him and don't learn from him, therefore he was an inventor.

Yes, it's harder to get points these days.... and Gretzky wouldn't get 215 points today. I have no doubt that he'd put up 130-150, while the best of the rest were around 95-105. He just saw the game on a different level than anyone else, at least that I've seen, it was like the game was played in slow motion in his head.

Sorry, if you'd seen him play regularly, you would understand why the points that you've raised, aren't particularly valid. Sure, he wouldn't score what he did, but he'd still outpace the rest of the league by a large margin

My opinion is based on popular saying, that you play as good as opponent allows you. Put Crosby in AHL and you will see how he looks smarter and faster than the rest. Gretzky is greatest in his era, and nobody won't achieve the same probably ever, but he wouldn't get the same today, just because there are much more better and faster kids.
 

DANTHEMAN1967

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Aug 10, 2016
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Gretzky being uncatchable wasn't entirely speed based. He was quick, but he was often referred to as "slippery" by opponents. They thought they had him lined up, went for a hit, and all of a sudden he wasn't there. It wasn't just the slugs of the 80's who couldn't catch him, it was guys all through the 90's as well, even when he was old and had slowed down, you rarely saw Wayne take a big hit. Yes, today's game is faster, but that doesn't mean that he would all of a sudden be unable to sidestep guys or slip around hits. If anything, he would be better today, there is no clutch and grab today, and guys are getting called for things on star players that they didn't used to get called for. Plus, special teams is more important than ever, and Gretzky is the best powerplay quarterback ever. Teams were afraid to get penalties against him because they scored so often.

Gretzky was the golden goose who could fill arenas when he went on the road.
I think that there was a tacit agreement among the other teams not to hit him and take the chance of injuring him.
That and he had the goon Semenko to babysit him which gave him the room/time that he needed.
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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You're the one who called him an "inventor", is guesses all you have?

Isn't that logical guess? I doubt modern players don't watch him and don't learn from him, therefore he was an inventor.

My opinion is based on popular saying, that you play as good as opponent allows you. Put Crosby in AHL and you will see how he looks smarter and faster than the rest. Gretzky is greatest in his era, and nobody won't achieve the same probably ever, but he wouldn't get the same today, just because there are much more better and faster kids.

I'll take that as a yes.
 

Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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Isn't that logical guess? I doubt modern players don't watch him and don't learn from him, therefore he was an inventor.



My opinion is based on popular saying, that you play as good as opponent allows you. Put Crosby in AHL and you will see how he looks smarter and faster than the rest. Gretzky is greatest in his era, and nobody won't achieve the same probably ever, but he wouldn't get the same today, just because there are much more better and faster kids.

Much more better? LOL

You just don't understand. No explanation can help you understand. That you think today's hockey players are that much better, and, that you don't understand why the kids are faster today, is the one of many issues. You take any player, from any era... and the elites of those eras would be elite at any other era. Yes, kids today, they have better equipment, better training facilities, better coaching, training methods, off season training... You put any 60's, 70's, 80's players through modern training, there wouldn't be any difference between them, and today's players. When someone is THAT much better than their peers, it would translate to any era.
 

Crede777

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Dec 16, 2009
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Age of the average poster aside, I think it just isn't a very interesting discussion to discuss things in relation to Gretzky.

I would consider Gretzky's place in the NHL to pretty much be settled. That's why people turn to guys like Howe, Orr, Lemieux, etc.
 

shtorm2005

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Aug 9, 2015
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Montreal, Canada
Much more better? LOL
When someone is THAT much better than their peers, it would translate to any era.

You can't translate that easily, when you increase quality of competition, dominance doesn't increase proportionnaly.
No difference beetween players? Why you need worldwide players then? Take them all from Canada.
 
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