Why is Canada Cup ‘91 never talked about? The other CC’s always seem to be more remembered

[c9777666]

The other Canada Cups always had something that is supremely well remembered in comparison.

With all due respect to 18 year old Eric Lindros with 0 NHL games under his belt being on the 1991 Canadian team and Larmer’s clutch shorthanded goal, these just don’t seem to rank high on the totem pole as Orr’s last hurrah, Sittler’s clincher, Liut’s shockingi implosion, Dzurilla’s shutout, Coffey’s 2-on-1 breakup, Hasek’s coming out party, and basically everything in the best of 3 1987 Finals.

One theory I have is that ‘91 lacked what it’s predecessors had- overwhelming rosters.

Canada’s 1991 roster was good, but not great. It has a lot of name players that we remember from that era, but they didn’t have the WOW factor of the 1987 or 1976 teams. Big Phil mentioned it being “Gretzky and the Grimders.”

It was a solid, it had some standout names, but when compared with ‘87 having Gretzky and Lemieux or the legendary roster of 1976 (18 future Hall of Famers!) it simply was not going to match up (Not having the hero of 1987, #66, was noteworthy)

And the team they always were dueling with, USSR, was by that point not what they had been in the 80s.

Plus, seeing USA as the big Canadian threat was a strange and new sight.

Canada vs Russia (save for ‘76 and the Czechs) was what Canada Cups were defined by- it’s why the 1981 Final was as shocking as the 1987 Final was iconic. Canada vs USSR in that era in beat vs, beat competition was just see.

In contrast facing a different foe in the Finals without that lineage/rivalry probably had a role in this tourney not having the mythology of its predecessors.

Kinda like how the final vs Sweden in ‘84 is not the defining image of that CC, but rather the semi.

And as for the 2992 final..... talk about an almost impossible task to follow up 1987’s trio of 6-5 games which are considered the greatest hockey exhibitions of all time.... talk about big shoes to fill.p!

Larmer’s shorthanded goal was a cool moment, but Gretzky to Lemieux is an all time moment.

At the end of the day, I feel that the greatness of the 1987 Canada Cup was simply too big a pair of shoes for 1991 to follow up.

Your thoughts?

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[The Panther]

Well, you summarized it well. But for me, personally (and possibly for several Oilers' fans), the 1991 Canada Cup is memorable for healing some of the wounds of the 1988 Gretzky meat-sale. We got to see Wayne playing again with Mark Messier, Paul Coffey, Steve Smith, and Bill Ranford. We got to see that team win it all, again... but with Gretzky on the sidelines for the end of game two and all of game three.

Gretzky was fabulous in this tournament, and it's also special in that it was the very last games/tournament of his career prime. Once the regular season opened two or three weeks later, he was just not the same, and he would only sporadically be "Gretzky" again for his remaining eight pro seasons.

It was a drag that Mario wasn't there, but then again for Oilers' fans it was kind of good because we got to see Gretzky dominating a team again. (By the way, why wasn't Mario there?)

But even if you're not a Gretzky/Oilers' fan, this tournament just didn't have the drama of previous ones. That said, it was a great tournament with great players/teams.

 

[VanIslander]

8-1 final.

Canada was embarrassed. Forget about it!

EDIT: That was Canada Cup '81, the other forgotten one.

 

[JackSlater]

A lot of the reasons were hit already. It was an uninspiring team for a few reasons. The best player in the world, Lemieux, wouldn't go. The best defenceman in the world, Bourque, refused. Roy couldn't go. Neely couldn't go. Oates wasn't there. Sakic was the first player cut because Keenan deemed him to have weak legs. And by far the biggest to me - they cut Yzerman. I'm biased as Yzerman is my favourite player ever, but that was an indefensible roster decision. I generally won't say that a roster decision was wrong when a team ultimately wins, but in this case I do. I would rather see what happens with Yzerman, top 3 forward in the world and a full on offensive force at this point, involved than just accept the hohum win. Ultimately, of Canada's top six scorers in the previous NHL season, only one was actually on the team. Instead you had good but far less dynamic players on the team. I'd actually say that six of Canada's seven top scorers weren't on the team due to Hull, but that's perhaps a different discussion for a different thread. I can accept that Lemieux was injured and Hull was sticking to his commitment after "defecting" but I think that the team is remembered much differently with peak Yzerman, peak Oates, early prime Sakic included.

In addition to the uninspiring Canadian roster, you had a very weak Soviet roster as the country was pretty much done. Canada didn't have a rival anymore. USA, Sweden, Finland were not ready yet to be real challengers, Czechoslovakia was in a situation kind of similar to USSR and was far below what it had been, and Canada pretty much went through the tournament in boring fashion. If Canada wasn't going to be challenged, then you'd at least hope for a historic team that would provide memorable combinations.

Suter's cheapshot on Gretzky also leaves a bad taste in the mouth. He impacted Gretzky's career with a shameless dirty play and that's one of the first things anyone thinks of with this tournament.

One positive is that this tournament did serve as a good preview of what was to come from countries like Sweden and USA.

 

[Gambitman]

I wonder if in some small way the tournament is a bit forgotten is due to Eric Lindros. As I remember that was the biggest element of drama leading up to the tournament. There was a lot of excitement surrounding his involvement, and for a lot of people their first chance to watch him play. I wonder if his career had gone more Gretzky or Lemieux like and if he was a more beloved Canadian hockey figure if the 91 CC would be more a part of the Canadian hockey narrative. Sort of echoing what Panther and JackSlater said, if you ask me about the 91 CC, the first thing that comes to my mind is Gretzky/Suter. Doesn’t exactly inspire memories like Henderson or Gretzky/Lemieux.

 

[frisco]

(By the way, why wasn't Mario there?)

He actually missed a game in the 1991 Finals because of his back after playing in only 25 or so games in the 90-91 season because of the back condition. He was not healthy at all. Basically, from 1989 onwards Mario was rarely completely healthy and always "day-to-day" with his back (and other stuff). For him to participate in a fairly grueling pre-season tournament wouldn't have been prudent especially when his team had played until mid-June.

My Best-Carey

 

[MS]

The big draw in previous Canada Cups was the opportunity to see the mysterious and incredibly talented Soviets against NHLers.

With Russians now in the NHL and a weak Russian squad for this tournament, that aspect was kinda gone.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

in some ways it was a glorified world championships. as a young west coast contrarian i could honestly not gaf about the canadian team as it was constructed, other than seeing lindros against men (though i appreciated the choices of fleury and russ courtnall for depth roles because little fast guys are more fun to watch than steve larmer). the guys i actually cared about canada missing were roy, bourque, and mark recchi. but no mario and no yzerman did signal no credibility to me. i don't remember caring either way about sakic at the time. especially without the missing superstars it felt like an oiler- and ontario-fest and i felt like we'd seen enough of that.

but what i really cared most about was the soviet team. no bure was devastating to those of us in vancouver who were waiting with baited breath to watch him. no mogilny, the entire green unit not there, what was the point?

i did watch but it was to cheer for team usa, led by north vancouver's brett hull. i really wanted to see that canada squad lose, because it was so partially representative of the country.

 

[JianYang]

Really, the only Canada Cup we constantly hear about is 87.

I almost forgot there was one in 1991. I don't really remember watching it either, but wasn't that the one where suter nailed Gretzky from behind?

The immediate thought for me is that the final was against USA, which didn't have anywhere near the marquee feel, as it did with the Soviets. The Russians themselves I assume were in transition at the time for obvious reasons, which I assume took alot out of the tournament too.

Some of you mentioned some of the missing players on the Canadian roster earlier, and that makes sense too as to why this tournament didn have the same feel.

 

[JackSlater]

In an alternate reality there is a Canadian team something like this...

Lemieux Gretzky Neely
Sakic Yzerman Larmer
Hawerchuk Oates Hull
Shanahan Messier Fleury
Lindros

Stevens Bourque
Coffey MacInnis
Smith Murphy
Desjardins

Roy
Belfour
Ranford

and a Soviet team featuring the Green Unit with a functional Krutov, Kamensky-Bykov-Khomutov, and Mogilny-Fedorov-Bure. That tournament is more well regarded.

 

[Voight]

Its similar to the 2004 US Olympic basketball team, not a lot of stars went and thus there wasn't nearly as much attention or hype for it.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

8-1 final.

Canada was embarrassed. Forget about it!

EDIT: That was Canada Cup '81, the other forgotten one.

Really? I feel 84 is the forgotten Canada Cup.

76 you hear about because of the all-world Team Canada roster and it being Orr's last great performance. 81 comes up because of the beating Canada took in the final. 87 obviously because it is an absolute classic and the last great matchup between Canada and the Soviets. And 91 has Lindros, the Suter hit, and the start of the Canada-USA rivalry that still continues.

84 almost never comes up. The only narrative that pops up occasionally is around the rivalry between Oilers/Islanders players and how those issues had to be sorted before Canada could reach its potential. But truth be told I had to go look up who Canada played in the final.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah, the 1984 Canada Cup was weird. It was as if the hangover of the 1981 loss (by team Canada) had dulled fans' general interest in international hockey. And it was only three years later. We had:
-- Peter Stastny playing for Team Canada
-- Bryan Trottier playing for Team USA
-- A bunch of games in Alberta (why?)
-- A bunch of games, including Canada's games, failed to sell out (a USSR - Germany game in Edmonton had an attendance of 2,500 -- but even Team Canada games at the Forum in Montreal failed to sell out)
-- A non-sexy Final between Canada and Sweden, where game two (in Edmonton) failed to sell out
-- John Tonelli as MVP

 

[sr edler]

One big factor was obvisouly the pending dissolution of the Soviet Union. The Soviets had lost Mogilny to defection and didn't send their new hot shot guys like Bure.

Sweden also didn't send their best team. Loob was still a very good player staying home and some other guys did too. Sundin and Lidström were too young to really make a difference. Salming too old.

 

[c9777666]

Really? I feel 84 is the forgotten Canada Cup.

76 you hear about because of the all-world Team Canada roster and it being Orr's last great performance. 81 comes up because of the beating Canada took in the final. 87 obviously because it is an absolute classic and the last great matchup between Canada and the Soviets. And 91 has Lindros, the Suter hit, and the start of the Canada-USA rivalry that still continues.

84 almost never comes up. The only narrative that pops up occasionally is around the rivalry between Oilers/Islanders players and how those issues had to be sorted before Canada could reach its potential. But truth be told I had to go look up who Canada played in the final.

'84 at least has the Coffey 2-on-1 breakup and Bossy's OT goal, which is noteworthy.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Yeah, the 1984 Canada Cup was weird. It was as if the hangover of the 1981 loss (by team Canada) had dulled fans' general interest in international hockey. And it was only three years later. We had:
-- Peter Stastny playing for Team Canada
-- Bryan Trottier playing for Team USA
-- A bunch of games in Alberta (why?)
-- A bunch of games, including Canada's games, failed to sell out (a USSR - Germany game in Edmonton had an attendance of 2,500 -- but even Team Canada games at the Forum in Montreal failed to sell out)
-- A non-sexy Final between Canada and Sweden, where game two (in Edmonton) failed to sell out
-- John Tonelli as MVP

It also had one of the greatest Canadian international games in history... the overtime win against the Soviets in the semi-finals was one of the greatest games ever. You couldn't ask for better drama, and it redeemed (at least for Canada) the entire tournament.

 

[The Panther]

It also had one of the greatest Canadian international games in history... the overtime win against the Soviets in the semi-finals was one of the greatest games ever. You couldn't ask for better drama, and it redeemed (at least for Canada) the entire tournament.

I'm not saying it wasn't great hockey (although I don't really know, as it was a few years before my time). I'm just saying it was an odd tournament for a few reasons, and the level of Canadian fan-interest seems (to me) to have been a bit less than before and after. I'm not sure how the '84 level of fan interest would compare to '91, but I think '91 had more.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I'm not saying it wasn't great hockey (although I don't really know, as it was a few years before my time). I'm just saying it was an odd tournament for a few reasons, and the level of Canadian fan-interest seems (to me) to have been a bit less than before and after. I'm not sure how the '84 level of fan interest would compare to '91, but I think '91 had more.

For me, it was the opposite. 91 just "seemed" less of a spectacle. In '84, Canada was looking for Redemption after '81. By '91, Canada had won two straight Canada Cups and ended up against the U.S. in the finals... a rivalry that simply wasn't at the level of Canada vs Russia at the time. Today, Canada vs USA has overtaken Canada vs Russia, but I wouldn't say that was the case in '91.

 

[Big Phil]

The tournament was still pretty good. It finished with some drama. Suter cross-checks Gretzky and in the final game with the score tied 2-2 it was Suter who coughed the puck up to Larmer shorthanded with Canadian-turned-American Hull chasing him down the ice to no avail. Tournament winner.

But yeah I think rosters had something to do with it. Gretzky was unreal in this tournament, I think every bit as good as 1987. It was without Mario so we really got to see him shine. It was the last time we saw Gretzky as more or less prime Gretzky.

But the Soviet team was stubborn and in a transition and left some guys at home. Finland was weak, the Czechs too and although Sweden was good the truth is the only roster which had some good talent was the USA's, other than Canada.

Even with Canada we had a lot of talent not on the team. For reasons of refusal, not being asked or injury here are the names not there:
Lemieux, Roy, Bourque, Yzerman, Recchi, Neely, Francis, Gilmour, Oates, etc. So without that star power it lacked a little bit more. Plus the whole stain of Eagleson being around at the time he was kicked out (it happened shortly after that).

 

[The Panther]

Even with Canada we had a lot of talent not on the team. For reasons of refusal, not being asked or injury here are the names not there:
Lemieux, Roy, Bourque, Yzerman, Recchi, Neely, Francis, Gilmour, Oates, etc. So without that star power it lacked a little bit more. Plus the whole stain of Eagleson being around at the time he was kicked out (it happened shortly after that).

It's crazy that Canada won as easily as it did without those guys in the line-up. But that's why this tournament isn't as fondly remembered -- Canada was still in the late-stages of a generation purple-patch of talent, while the other hockey countries were not. It was too one-sided.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Funnily enough, it was the CC that I knew best growing up because I had a VHS tape of the highlights and watched it over and over. I thought Markus Ketterer was the best goalie evah.

 

[Sentinel]

Same reason as why the OG2014 sucked: no real contenders for Canada. Finland and USA were quite there yet, and USSR was on its last legs.

And given the Gretzky-Suter incident, I'm safe to say this is one tournament everyone was only happy to forget.