Why hasn't the Hawks Powerplay during the Toews, Kane, and Kieth era been much better than it is?

x Tame Impala

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Alright here it is...there was a mini convo about this in the other thread but I want to talk about it more here. What's been with the Hawks Power Play in the Toews & Kane era? I'll kind of excuse the last 3 years since we didn't have as much All-Star talent as we clearly did from 09-2017.

2019-20: 28th, 15.2% (LOL great job there JC?)
2018-19: 15th, 20.2%
2017-18: 29th, 16%
2016-17: 19th, 18%
2015-16: 2nd, 22.6% (WOW, yeah that was Kane's MVP year with Panarin riding shotgun winning a freaking Calder!)

2014-15: 20th, 17.6%
2013-14: 10th, 19.5%
2012-13: 19th, 16.7% (This was our President's Trophy, arguably best team of the era)

2011-12: 26th, 15.2%
2010-2011: 4th, 23.1% (I knew it! Huzzah)
2009-10: 16th, 17.7%
2008-09: 12th. 19.3%

Which averages out to 16th-17th in the 12 years since they made their first WCF. And it's not like the Hawks didn't have stacked rosters for most of those years either. Except for 2011 ironically because it was after our cap-purge and we couldn't afford a goalie so we had to pay old-man Turco. We had no real depth that year but finished with the 4th best PP :laugh: .

So is it coaching with Q and his rotating cast of Assistants? Why hasn't JC been more successful with the powerplay either? Is it that Toews, Kane, Keith, are just not that good together on a powerplay and they never will be?

You'd think considering that throughout this 12 year period we've constantly had at least 3 Hall of Fame players on it (4 if you include Hossa), arguably the deepest team in the league post-lockout in 2010, arguably the best team post-lockout in 2013, even that 2014-15 team had something going with the Versteeg-Richards-Kane line for like 20 games and then after it fizzled out the PP plummeted and then Kane got injured for 20 games.

It's always been a headscratcher for me and i'm sure for you guys too. There's always been a ton of talent on our Hawks teams and for the most part they're average or worse. I remember looking at those rosters every year before the season started and thinking they'd all have a killer powerplay but they rarely did.
 

ChiHawks10

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Jul 7, 2009
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Alright here it is...there was a mini convo about this in the other thread but I want to talk about it more here. What's been with the Hawks Power Play in the Toews & Kane era? I'll kind of excuse the last 3 years since we didn't have as much All-Star talent as we clearly did from 09-2017.

2019-20: 28th, 15.2% (LOL great job there JC?)
2018-19: 15th, 20.2%
2017-18: 29th, 16%
2016-17: 19th, 18%
2015-16: 2nd, 22.6% (WOW, yeah that was Kane's MVP year with Panarin riding shotgun winning a freaking Calder!)

2014-15: 20th, 17.6%
2013-14: 10th, 19.5%
2012-13: 19th, 16.7% (This was our President's Trophy, arguably best team of the era)

2011-12: 26th, 15.2%
2010-2011: 4th, 23.1% (I knew it! Huzzah)
2009-10: 16th, 17.7%
2008-09: 12th. 19.3%

Which averages out to 16th-17th in the 12 years since they made their first WCF. And it's not like the Hawks didn't have stacked rosters for most of those years either. Except for 2011 ironically because it was after our cap-purge and we couldn't afford a goalie so we had to pay old-man Turco. We had no real depth that year but finished with the 4th best PP :laugh: .

So is it coaching with Q and his rotating cast of Assistants? Why hasn't JC been more successful with the powerplay either? Is it that Toews, Kane, Keith, are just not that good together on a powerplay and they never will be?

You'd think considering that throughout this 12 year period we've constantly had at least 3 Hall of Fame players on it (4 if you include Hossa), arguably the deepest team in the league post-lockout in 2010, arguably the best team post-lockout in 2013, even that 2014-15 team had something going with the Versteeg-Richards-Kane line for like 20 games and then after it fizzled out the PP plummeted and then Kane got injured for 20 games.

It's always been a headscratcher for me and i'm sure for you guys too. There's always been a ton of talent on our Hawks teams and for the most part they're average or worse. I remember looking at those rosters every year before the season started and thinking they'd all have a killer powerplay but they rarely did.

Can you go back from 1995-2008 also?

To me, it's personnel. Everyone gets frozen just standing around looking at Kane. They always have, from the day he entered the league. Any time their PP is working well, they're moving a ton, rotating a ton, and moving the puck well around the perimeter. When it's not going well, Kane is on the half boards stickhandling, and playing keep-away with Duncs up at the point, Toews is just standing off to the side of the net, or in the corner/behind the net. and the other wing is just kinda floating around as if he doesn't know what to do. The other D has a tendency to just float around at the top of the zone, too. If you pay attention, you'll notice a lot of teams have their weak side D sneak down low to the tops of the circles, or the weak side half boards, and setup for one-timers and shot-passes, and things like that. The weak side wing should also be in a similar area, giving the PP QB a couple of different outlets for passes/plays.
 
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Blackhawkswincup

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Didn't refresh to see you created new thread but here was my response in other thread

I don't remember a good PP here in the last 25 years. Then again, there weren't any players worth being on a PP for a good 10 or more of those. :laugh:

I think ironically our best PP year was in 2011 or 12. I think it was 12. Some year we got booted in the 1st round. I don’t think any of our teams from 2010 on had any standout seasons on the power play.

Since 05-06 the Hawks special teams

05-06 = 12.23% PP (30th) , 83.91% PK (9th)
06-07 = 11.81% PP (30th) , 82.62% PK (15th)
07-08 = 15.89% PP (24th) , 82.08% PK (17th)
08-09 = 19.28% PP (12th) , 80.61% PK (18th)
09-10 = 17.69% PP (16th) , 84.96% PK (4th)
10-11 = 23.10% PP (4th)
, 79.22% PK (25th)
11-12 = 15.16% PP (26th) , 78.11% PK (27th)
12-13 = 16.67% PP (19th) , 87.23% PK (3rd)
13-14 = 19.46% PP (10th)
, 81.45% PK (19th)
14-15 = 17.69% PP (19th) , 83.41% PK (10th)
15-16 = 22.62% PP (2nd) , 80.26% PK (22nd)
16-17 = 18.03% PP (19th) , 77.64% PK (24th)
17-18 = 15.99% PP (29th) , 79.24% PK (20th)
18-19 = 20.17% PP (15th) , 72.73% PK (31st)
19-20 = 15.21% PP (28th) , 82.13% PK (9th)

Bolded = Top 10

Hawks had top 10 PK all 3 cup years
 

Blackhawkswincup

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Chicagoland
Can you go back from 1995-2008 also?.

Can you -expletive- my -expletive- ? :laugh:

:laugh:

I'd be fine with you just linking where you found the stats, also, and I'd go look myself.

Here you go

1994-95 = 24.53% PP (1st) , 84.21% PK (9th)
1995-96 = 17.70% PP (15th) , 85.46% PK (3rd)
1996-97 = 14.80% PP (17th) , 84.22% PK (11th)
1997-98 = 12.95% PP (19th) , 84.82% PK (14th)
1998-99 = 14.93% PP (14th) , 80.25% PK (25th)
1999-00 = 16.00% PP (21st) , 83.66% PK (16th)
2000-01 = 12.89% PP (28th) , 83.90% PK (15th)
2001-02 = 17.88% PP (6th) , 81.47% PK (27th)
2002-03 = 12.66% PP (28th) , 84.82% PK (11th)
2003-04 = 15.76% PP (20th) , 83.55% PK (19th)

Bolded = Top Ten

Dead Puck Era inflated PK %'s as the clutch and grabbing + trap made them far more successful in kill. Many years lowest PK's from that era would be mid teens sometimes late top 10 nowadays where it seems PK's aren't as successful and fluctuate without the clutch and grabbing + trap
 

ChiHawks10

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Best PP of last 25 years was 94-95 Hawks
Best PK of last 25 years was 12-13 Hawks

Thanks for grabbing the data. I was pretty spot on in my assessment, though. Really not many PPs to be proud of over the last 25 years or so, with the exception of a couple random seasons. Their PK has always been far better.
 

migi

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Feb 25, 2015
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Kane is predictable. When they had Panarin, he came unpredictable because teams had to concentrate to two guys.

/thread.
 
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Callidusblackhawk

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Can you go back from 1995-2008 also?

To me, it's personnel. Everyone gets frozen just standing around looking at Kane. They always have, from the day he entered the league. Any time their PP is working well, they're moving a ton, rotating a ton, and moving the puck well around the perimeter. When it's not going well, Kane is on the half boards stickhandling, and playing keep-away with Duncs up at the point, Toews is just standing off to the side of the net, or in the corner/behind the net. and the other wing is just kinda floating around as if he doesn't know what to do. The other D has a tendency to just float around at the top of the zone, too. If you pay attention, you'll notice a lot of teams have their weak side D sneak down low to the tops of the circles, or the weak side half boards, and setup for one-timers and shot-passes, and things like that. The weak side wing should also be in a similar area, giving the PP QB a couple of different outlets for passes/plays.
Even when they used movement in the playoffs it was ineffective because they half assed it and it just resulted in Kane, Toews, and Kubalik swapping positions and then going back to standing around waiting for Kane to make an impossible pass.
 

CanadianHawks

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We haven't had an elite PP QB for a long time. Even in his prime Kieth was more of a ES threat than a PP QB
 

hawksfan50

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Feb 27, 2002
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1.Dincan Keith

2.Duncan Keith

3.Duncan Keith

Can't get piint shot through...few that get through not on net...Opps ignore him to box in and defend rest of Hawks out there...Also does nit create enough threat himself by lughing puck and moving to a better shooting threat angle.. in short he is a porvPP qb and no threat to blast one past goalies= dead weight on the PP.
4. Toews= meh on the PP ...for $13.5 not getting pp valuec for that kind of pay.

5. Kane.....perimeter play on the half-wall ...doesn't crash the net ...got to mix that up more...too predictable.
 
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LavalPhantom

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Sep 12, 2014
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I personally never liked Keith, and to some extent Sharp, on the PP. I just think they often made the wrong decision out there.
 

featherhawk

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Dec 13, 2006
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they don't shoot enough, they stand around with little movement and pass around the perimeter over and over again looking for the perfect "tap in" play

that and Keith can't hit the net... and should not have been on the PP for the past 4 years
 

wahsnairb

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Jun 9, 2010
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Lack of movement is the biggest reason

Lack of shots is a reason

Lack of shots getting through is a reason

Lack of quality in front of the net is a reason

It looks like if you were practicing puck movement in practice and told the players they could only pass it into the net.
 
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Chuck Testa

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Mar 27, 2017
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No puck movement

Extremely predictable

Their push back entry is terrible.. Don't know how many times I've seen Keith rush up the middle and drop it back to Kane who's an entire zone behind him and that leads to the opposition stacking the line and getting set up.

Lack of one timers on the powerplay. The defense have been on their strong side for most of the last 10+ years. So they have to catch the puck, corral it, and THEN shoot. Gives the opponent wayyyyyy too much time to block the shot.

Duncan Keith is attrocious on the powerplay and I think he got the sooks when they weren't giving him PP1 time. You'd almost think he was a premier PP QB when he's the exact opposite. He sees himself as a Mahomes when he's really more like a Blaine Gabbert. He also couldn't hit the water if he fell out of a boat.

Kane does just stand on that half wall an awful lot but I don't think you should ever take him off the top unit. Just work with him to tinker his game and get everybody moving around more.

They seem to always try for the pretty plays way too often and force passes through way too much traffic rather than keeping it simple. When they keep it simple, they seem to score.
 

ChiHawk21

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Jan 15, 2011
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eh middle of the pack on average. i dont think keith or toews are great powerplay superstars. about what i would have guessed as most teams always have a good enough PP1 unit with top players.
 

Hawkey

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Sep 15, 2005
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They have not had a pp QB and no one on the point with a hard enough shot that the opposing team needs to defend against.

it’s easy to defend against Chicago pp - collapse to the net and take away down-low and cross-ice passes. Force the puck to go around the perimeter until someone coughs up the puck or Keith lets off a feeble point shot shot that can be easily blocked or saved.

Watch a team with a dman that has a heavy shot, Burns, Webber. The other team has to bring a forward up to take away the shot which opens the box. That opens up the ice for the forwards.
 

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