Why hasn't Baltimore ever worked for a hockey ?

royals119

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Not really. I'd describe the configuration as a "squared off U", meaning the corners of the bowl are at 90-degree angles, thus creating a lot of dead space on the floor. It's kind of like a bigger version of the Civic Coliseum in Knoxville in that way.
That seems like something that would be addressed in a major remodel. If they rebuilt the stands at that end to a more conventional "U" shape they would also gain some space on the concourse in those corners to add a brewpub or something, or maybe just rip out the seats at that end entirely and go with club boxes down low, an open concourse/restaurant setup, and some kind of suites above? Looks like the stage is probably at the opposite end for concerts, so that would certainly work for a concert venue, and would still leave room for an ice floor for Disney shows and a potential hockey team.
 

CrazyEddie20

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That seems like something that would be addressed in a major remodel. If they rebuilt the stands at that end to a more conventional "U" shape they would also gain some space on the concourse in those corners to add a brewpub or something, or maybe just rip out the seats at that end entirely and go with club boxes down low, an open concourse/restaurant setup, and some kind of suites above? Looks like the stage is probably at the opposite end for concerts, so that would certainly work for a concert venue, and would still leave room for an ice floor for Disney shows and a potential hockey team.

Probably. But if you're going to do that, just tear the thing down and start fresh.
 
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royals119

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Probably. But if you're going to do that, just tear the thing down and start fresh.
The city already rejected a proposal to build a new building and asked for proposals to either renovate or rebuild on the same site. I'm assuming the developers felt their odds of getting approved were better with a "renovation". It also doesn't say exactly what they mean by renovation. Could be they are only going to keep the foundation and rebuild/replace everything else.

I saw a restaurant do that one time. They build new walls on all four sides, outside the original walls of the old building, and then gradually "remodeled" the interior space, until there was nothing left of the original building when they were done, except for the foundation and floors. I assumed they didn't get permission to tear the old building down for some reason, but they could increase the footprint. It had to cost more to do what they did, but if the other choice is to do nothing, then a "remodel" becomes the best option
 
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JMCx4

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The city already rejected a proposal to build a new building and asked for proposals to either renovate or rebuild on the same site. I'm assuming the developers felt their odds of getting approved were better with a "renovation". It also doesn't say exactly what they mean by renovation. Could be they are only going to keep the foundation and rebuild/replace everything else. ...
OR ... since it is/was? the Oak View Group in talks with the City of Baltimore, they could have pitched a renovation plan similar to Seattle's KeyArena job as described in this 2019 Daily Hive article...
The stadium at Seattle Center in downtown Seattle is currently undergoing a drastic USD $930-million renovation, which involves retaining the landmark exoskeleton and roof structure, gutting the old stadium interior and demolishing the concrete grandstand bowl, and excavating to a depth of 70 ft below ground — removing 600,000 cubic yards of dirt.
 
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Royalsflagrunner77

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OR ... since it is/was? the Oak View Group in talks with the City of Baltimore, they could have pitched a renovation plan similar to Seattle's KeyArena job as described in this 2019 Daily Hive article...

To be honest what ever they are doing its gonna be really hard to increase seating do to the location . The arena is in the middle of downtown with a huge parking garage slammed up against it and the interior seating design is a U shape kind of like the old Sears center near Chicago were the ECHL express played for like half a season unless they construct some kind of small stands in there but if I'm correct I think their ZAM entrance is at that end as well leaving not much options . unless the do what Seattle did and completely blow the walls out and reconstruct everything but the roof .
 

JMCx4

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To be honest what ever they are doing its gonna be really hard to increase seating do to the location . The arena is in the middle of downtown with a huge parking garage slammed up against it and the interior seating design is a U shape kind of like the old Sears center near Chicago were the ECHL express played for like half a season unless they construct some kind of small stands in there but if I'm correct I think their ZAM entrance is at that end as well leaving not much options . unless the do what Seattle did and completely blow the walls out and reconstruct everything but the roof .
That was the whole point of my post. KeyArena's location presented a similarly restricted footprint, but Oak View Group is darn close to pulling it off for the Fall 2021 opening of Climate Pledge Arena.

And for the record: The Chicago Express played all of their allotted 36 home games @ Sears Centre in their one-n-done 2011-12 ECHL season. WITH an overall winning record, I might add. So you see, miracles CAN happen.
 
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Royalsflagrunner77

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That was the whole point of my post. KeyArena's location presented a similarly restricted footprint, but Oak View Group is darn close to pulling it off for the Fall 2021 opening of Climate Pledge Arena.

And for the record: The Chicago Express played all of their allotted 36 home games @ Sears Centre in their one-n-done 2011-12 ECHL season. WITH an overall winning record, I might add. So you see, miracles CAN happen.
lol what team was the one who closed up shop mid season ? San Francisco ? maybe
 

CrazyEddie20

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Augusta and Fresno both folded during the 08-09 season. Both were owned by people who made money selling cars, and the recession left them with cash flow issues. SanFran folded during 13-14, their second season.

Augusta was actually owned by Dan Troutman, who was in the business of building houses - exactly the wrong business to be in for the 2008-09 season.

San Francisco was run by Angela Batinovich, who's daddy bought her an NLL team that she ran into the ground (after finding a husband amongst the players). She then somehow got hired to run the Bulls, which were basically an enormous disaster from the hop.
 

royals119

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Augusta was actually owned by Dan Troutman, who was in the business of building houses - exactly the wrong business to be in for the 2008-09 season.

San Francisco was run by Angela Batinovich, who's daddy bought her an NLL team that she ran into the ground (after finding a husband amongst the players). She then somehow got hired to run the Bulls, which were basically an enormous disaster from the hop.
My bad. The original Lynx owner was a car dealer. He sold it to Troutman. Either way, the recession created cash flow issues for a lot of businesses, and the Lynx and Falcons owners weren't able to keep going.
 

GindyDraws

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It doesn't help that, as it's a dead horse, Baltimore has a horrible, horrible arena. One of the worst for any large city in the country.

Frankly, while "renovating" it sounds good, which is what is on the verge of happening, it's one of those cases where it's better to just build a brand new arena, in spite of the rising costs of new venues and the fact that the "benefits" of a new venue for the community are debatable. It's not a debate of replacing a 20-25 year old venue that still has a lot left in the tank; it's replacing a 60+ year old shithole that nobody outside of pro wrestling wants to do events in. It's a similar problem San Diego, Hartford, and every major city in Virginia are dealing with; they got crappy arenas that would be better off replaced entirely due to how archaic and unappealing they are for anyone, with renovations only serving as Band-Aids to the problem.

Obviously, getting the funds and dealing with the consequences of bending over to sports owners who want all of the rewards of a sparking, new venue but none of the responsibilities (maintenance fees, property taxes, construction costs) are major issues which means we shouldn't just build a new arena every time a rich person goes "I want one", but there are at least a handful of cases where building a new venue just makes much more sense.

The other issue is location. Baltimore is smack-dab between Philadelphia and Washington, which its often associated with in media markets. If you live in inner-city Baltimore, you probably would care for a minor league team, but if you live in the suburbs or general Maryland, you'd rather go to Philly or Washington D.C. to see the Flyers or Capitals instead of minor leaguers. It's a reason why the NBA or NHL would never work. Could a minor league team exist if a new arena ever is built, or if the Baltimore Arena renovations move it to the 1990s? Probably. But that team isn't going to live long.
 
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GindyDraws

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Augusta was actually owned by Dan Troutman, who was in the business of building houses - exactly the wrong business to be in for the 2008-09 season.

San Francisco was run by Angela Batinovich, who's daddy bought her an NLL team that she ran into the ground (after finding a husband amongst the players). She then somehow got hired to run the Bulls, which were basically an enormous disaster from the hop.

Ah, yes. The Portland LumberJax. Most famously made the championship in 2008 despite having a losing season.

The Bulls were doomed from the start. The Cow Palace was too old for hockey (and anything, to be blunt, although it still has a reason to exist given the Chase Center will be out of the price range for many events), a fact the San Jose Sharks themselves learned during their first two years, and that was 20 years prior, and spelled disaster for the San Francisco Spiders in their lone IHL season. And that's ignoring the ownership.

Can we say Fresno just had bad luck with arenas either way?
 

CrazyEddie20

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Social distancing 2 years before it was a thing.

I happened to be in DC for work and went to the Valor's home playoff game against Albany the year they won the championship with a 2-10 regular season record, because I needed something to do and also because I hate myself. I was one of dozens of fans in Capital One Arena that night, and I discovered something: Arena Football was still the stupid, unentertaining version of football it had always been!
 
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