Why has Russia so low hockey population ?

[Zine]

So a recreational kid can't be "registered" with a hockey school?

Depends on what you mean by 'recreational'. That's an open ended term.


Thing is, you've given zero evidence apart from the IIHF survey itself....a survey you admitted is inaccurate. Weird considering your entire argument is predicated on IIHF accuracy. Otherwise, all you've provided are assumptions with a MOA akin to a creationist claiming "hey, prove god doesn't exist."

What do you think of Tretiaks statement?

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Where do YOU live?

I have lived my whole life in Canada.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Well, I'd bet I've more experiences, knowledge/avenues to obtain knowledge than you.

Where do you live? What experiences, knowledge, connections to the topic do you have that would help validate your POV?

I never said I knew more than you about youth recreational hockey in Russia, but rather that you likely know next to nothing about it.

I live in Canada. Having a son that plays at the competitive (rep) level I know a fair bit about kids hockey.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Depends on what you mean by 'recreational'. That's an open ended term.


Thing is, you've given zero evidence apart from the IIHF survey itself....a survey you admitted is inaccurate. Weird considering your entire argument is predicated on IIHF accuracy. Otherwise, all you've provided are assumptions with a MOA akin to a creationist claiming "hey, prove god doesn't exist."

What do you think of Tretiaks statement?

I don't think there is anything here we haven't already covered. Send me a link of Tretiak's statement and I can comment if you like.

 

[Atas2000]

So a recreational kid can't be "registered" with a hockey school?

Yes, a 'recreational kid' can't be registered with a hockey school in Russia. There is basically none organized recreational hockey in Russia. Kids just go out to play, as do the adults like me. We meet twice a week at an outdoor rink in winter and that's it. There are also kids and adults playing some competitive hockey, but at a very casual level. They are enrolled in some local tournaments, but they are also not registered. Heck, the may have a different lineup every game, have no team uniforms etc.

 

[Botta]

Yes, a 'recreational kid' can't be registered with a hockey school in Russia. There is basically none organized recreational hockey in Russia. Kids just go out to play, as do the adults like me. We meet twice a week at an outdoor rink in winter and that's it. There are also kids and adults playing some competitive hockey, but at a very casual level. They are enrolled in some local tournaments, but they are also not registered. Heck, the may have a different lineup every game, have no team uniforms etc.

Read something about that 300 000 kids participated in youth hockey in Russia.Said so on a government site

 

[Atas2000]

Read something about that 300 000 kids participated in youth hockey in Russia.Said so on a government site

Just to put it in a perspective. There is a small village where I have relatives. They have an outdoor rink. A guy I know pretty much has rebuilt it by himself after it has fallen apart literally in the 90's. They have teams there: kids, juniors, adults and a mixed team with juniors and adults. They participate in a local tournament there. Still they are not registered players, because it's a pretty casual level. The roster differs from game to game. The kids from the village are free to attend practices, all they need is some gear. It's not a hockey school. If you want to learn some serious hockey you should go elsewhere and they have no opportunity to really practice on a indoor rinks. There are some in the nearby town, but the ppl just can't afford it. It's around $150 per hour to rent the rink. It may not sound like much, but it is for the ppl there.

Still, they organized a game against the local VHL team this winter. Of course it wasn't the VHL top-roster and of course it was a big blowout, but props to the VHLers for caring and doing stuff like that.

There is atotally different picture in urban areas.

So that's the situation right now. There are ppl who do things like that, but there is no real structure or support from above right now. I hope the talking in the FHR will result in some real support for those ppl in the end.

 

[Yakushev72]

Just to put it in a perspective. There is a small village where I have relatives. They have an outdoor rink. A guy I know pretty much has rebuilt it by himself after it has fallen apart literally in the 90's. They have teams there: kids, juniors, adults and a mixed team with juniors and adults. They participate in a local tournament there. Still they are not registered players, because it's a pretty casual level. The roster differs from game to game. The kids from the village are free to attend practices, all they need is some gear. It's not a hockey school. If you want to learn some serious hockey you should go elsewhere and they have no opportunity to really practice on a indoor rinks. There are some in the nearby town, but the ppl just can't afford it. It's around $150 per hour to rent the rink. It may not sound like much, but it is for the ppl there.

Still, they organized a game against the local VHL team this winter. Of course it wasn't the VHL top-roster and of course it was a big blowout, but props to the VHLers for caring and doing stuff like that.

There is atotally different picture in urban areas.

So that's the situation right now. There are ppl who do things like that, but there is no real structure or support from above right now. I hope the talking in the FHR will result in some real support for those ppl in the end.

I enjoyed reading your account. Its great that the guy you know is taking the time and considerable effort to make sure that kids and adults in their village have a place where they can enjoy fun hockey throughout the winter. The main thing is to enjoy playing, but if it should occur that one of the kids in the village happens to show some talent, the expansion of youth hockey that is currently going on (even at the early stage) should offer the talented kid a place where he can go, no doubt in another town or city, to see if he can develop his talent.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

I enjoyed reading your account. Its great that the guy you know is taking the time and considerable effort to make sure that kids and adults in their village have a place where they can enjoy fun hockey throughout the winter. The main thing is to enjoy playing, but if it should occur that one of the kids in the village happens to show some talent, the expansion of youth hockey that is currently going on (even at the early stage) should offer the talented kid a place where he can go, no doubt in another town or city, to see if he can develop his talent.

I agree, nice story. Sounds like what we call shinny. You never told us where you live, how come?

 

[Atas2000]

I agree, nice story. Sounds like what we call shinny. You never told us where you live, how come?

I think it's pretty obvious from my posts that I'm an AkBars fan. My primary home is Kazan, but I travel a lot(always hate to miss playoff time in Kazan).

The situation with youth hockey in Kazan or Tatarstan for that matter is very much different as I wrote. We have a bunch of indoor rinks in Kazan and a lot of outdoor rinks(again) mostly affiliated with schools(no hockey schools). Kids go playing there a lot in winter. We do too. There is a lot of casual hockey. But I've also seen a kid(not older than 4 or 5 probably) with a personal skating trainer at a rink in Kazan. So parents are really serious about the kid's hockey education.

The story above is from a neighboring region the Mari El.

Google helps. I even found one picture of the team:

 

[Zine]

I don't think there is anything here we haven't already covered. Send me a link of Tretiak's statement and I can comment if you like.

Tretiak said 86K male players exist. As poster obskyr attests to (as I've been saying all along), these numbers correlate to players registered to the FHR. Basically kids over 10 at these schools.

Again:
*U10 aren't registered to the FHR,
*nor are players playing various forms of orgianzed hockey discussed in this thread
*nor is a typical 12 year old taking 'learn to play' classes from places like this
*nor are players in rec leagues like this

 

[Sergei DRW]

According to IIHF 63580 players about 0.05% of the population... ?

143,400,000 People...

Canada 33,476,688 people and over 550K players... 110 million people more than Canada...

The question is where are the other 400k+ of players ? On drugs ? Out of money ? Alcoholics ?

Nice choice of words there, young man....NOT

Ice hockey is simply not a number 1 sport in Russia like in Canada.
Russia competes in all Olympic and non-Olympic sports in all categories, while Canada has only ice hockey.
Their basketball, football, volleyball, handball teams are non-existent or never reach anything big.
Think about it.

 

[Den]

I think the other 400K are playing soccer...

 

[Raptor1990]

99,172 well this seems better, wonder that its even more that Sweden.

http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/the-iihf/survey-of-players/

 

[Atas2000]

Most people don't realize that Russia has a very large population that lives below the poverty line. These people simply can't afford to play hockey.

I'm sure the number is actually around 200k+ though.

Maybe you should stop listening to your propaganda. Do you really think this dreamworld where Russa is full of beggars and Canada is the promised land is realistic? You obviusly have no idea about the real state of things.

 

[Atas2000]

Nice choice of words there, young man....NOT

Ice hockey is simply not a number 1 sport in Russia like in Canada.
Russia competes in all Olympic and non-Olympic sports in all categories, while Canada has only ice hockey.
Their basketball, football, volleyball, handball teams are non-existent or never reach anything big.
Think about it.

Yeah, that too. Russia is one of the few large sports nations running organzed sports programs in nearly every single olympic sport. Somebody who does cross-country skiing seriously obviously can't play hockey. Smaller nations often concentrate on one or two sports they are good in. Canada obviously has hockey, figure skating and curling. Quite enough for a 20 Mill. nation.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Yeah, that too. Russia is one of the few large sports nations running organzed sports programs in nearly every single olympic sport. Somebody who does cross-country skiing seriously obviously can't play hockey. Smaller nations often concentrate on one or two sports they are good in. Canada obviously has hockey, figure skating and curling. Quite enough for a 20 Mill. nation.

Canada's population is actually around 35 million. Canada's sports system isn't too balanced imo, they basically have the best hockey teams in the world (usually), but since hockey draws so much interests, far less athletes go into other sports, which weakens the country's overall sports performance.

 

[Yakushev72]

If you accept IIHF data as being factual (and there are a lot of problems with such data), there are 8 Canadian hockey players for every 1 Russian player, and there are 6 indoor ice rinks in Canada for every single indoor rink in Russia. Such a massive disadvantage in hockey resources can only be overcome through brilliant, groundbreaking achievements in hockey development, and at this point, no one is suggesting that such breakthroughs are taking place in Russia.

Russia has a lot of success because Russian schools are still better than anywhere in the world for developing hockey skills. But there are still far too few really good schools that consistently produce great talent. You can almost count them on one hand - Traktor in Chelyabinsk, Lokomotiv in Yaroslavl, Metallurg in Magnitogorsk and Novokuznetsk - just a few schools producing much of the talent. Even in Soviet times, tiny places like Voskresensk and Penza were producing national team players far beyond the scope of their meager resources. To achieve parity, Russia will have to invest in more rinks and more "sharing the knowledge" to get less successful schools up to full speed.

 

[Botta]

If you accept IIHF data as being factual (and there are a lot of problems with such data), there are 8 Canadian hockey players for every 1 Russian player, and there are 6 indoor ice rinks in Canada for every single indoor rink in Russia. Such a massive disadvantage in hockey resources can only be overcome through brilliant, groundbreaking achievements in hockey development, and at this point, no one is suggesting that such breakthroughs are taking place in Russia.

Russia has a lot of success because Russian schools are still better than anywhere in the world for developing hockey skills. But there are still far too few really good schools that consistently produce great talent. You can almost count them on one hand - Traktor in Chelyabinsk, Lokomotiv in Yaroslavl, Metallurg in Magnitogorsk and Novokuznetsk - just a few schools producing much of the talent. Even in Soviet times, tiny places like Voskresensk and Penza were producing national team players far beyond the scope of their meager resources. To achieve parity, Russia will have to invest in more rinks and more "sharing the knowledge" to get less successful schools up to full speed.

Hopefully Russia will build another 400 rinks to double the number of players.Just a question to you.Are the hockey schools guided by some national/regional hockey administration or are they independent and have no influence from each other or for example FHR?

 

[Jussi]

If you accept IIHF data as being factual (and there are a lot of problems with such data), there are 8 Canadian hockey players for every 1 Russian player, and there are 6 indoor ice rinks in Canada for every single indoor rink in Russia. Such a massive disadvantage in hockey resources can only be overcome through brilliant, groundbreaking achievements in hockey development, and at this point, no one is suggesting that such breakthroughs are taking place in Russia.

Russia has a lot of success because Russian schools are still better than anywhere in the world for developing hockey skills. But there are still far too few really good schools that consistently produce great talent. You can almost count them on one hand - Traktor in Chelyabinsk, Lokomotiv in Yaroslavl, Metallurg in Magnitogorsk and Novokuznetsk - just a few schools producing much of the talent. Even in Soviet times, tiny places like Voskresensk and Penza were producing national team players far beyond the scope of their meager resources. To achieve parity, Russia will have to invest in more rinks and more "sharing the knowledge" to get less successful schools up to full speed.

Ville Nieminen witnessed this first hand when he was playign there and watched his son play in the junior team (or rather take his first steps since he was so young). His key obersvatiosn were that the hockey school his son was in, focused so heavily in teaching proper skating techniques etc. first. Once they had passed vertain grades/levels, then they would get to play with the puck. If you don't pass a a certain level , then you're not in the team/school and you're basically screwed. He said because the system is so "brutal", the system loses out on many potnetial players only because they're slower learners.

It seems these days they only find money for HUUUUGE arenas for teams and worthless stuff (military) instead of helping grass roots hockey with small indoor rinks. Mind you, it's not like we've had new rinks pop over here since the 90's boom. The current ones are booked full or charge very high rent (Swedes have ridiculously low compared to Finnish towns/municipals, sometiems even free ive time).

 

[Yakushev72]

Ville Nieminen witnessed this first hand when he was playign there and watched his son play in the junior team (or rather take his first steps since he was so young). His key obersvatiosn were that the hockey school his son was in, focused so heavily in teaching proper skating techniques etc. first. Once they had passed vertain grades/levels, then they would get to play with the puck. If you don't pass a a certain level , then you're not in the team/school and you're basically screwed. He said because the system is so "brutal", the system loses out on many potnetial players only because they're slower learners.

It seems these days they only find money for HUUUUGE arenas for teams and worthless stuff (military) instead of helping grass roots hockey with small indoor rinks. Mind you, it's not like we've had new rinks pop over here since the 90's boom. The current ones are booked full or charge very high rent (Swedes have ridiculously low compared to Finnish towns/municipals, sometiems even free ive time).

Obviously, the fact that there are so few schools suggests that far more promising kids will be "missed" than "found," regardless of the preferred training methods. Its just not anywhere near the same priority as in Finland and Canada.

 

[eal]

How popular is Bandy in Russia? I have always got the sense it is big in a few areas but largely a forgotten sport.

 

[Yakushev72]

How popular is Bandy in Russia? I have always got the sense it is big in a few areas but largely a forgotten sport.

It is very popular in Northern Russia, the Urals and Siberia. Big crowds of crazy people still stand outside in -30 degree weather to watch bandy matches.

 

[eal]

It is very popular in Northern Russia, the Urals and Siberia. Big crowds of crazy people still stand outside in -30 degree weather to watch bandy matches.

Do the media cover Bandy much?

 

[Acallabeth]

Do the media cover Bandy much?

It's covered a bit in primarily bandy regions, but honestly it's not a glamourous sport like hockey, so it doesn't have nearly as much media attention.