Why don't we ever see ivy league educated GMs?

[Bostonzamboni]

Peter Chiarelli has been out of the league entirely (?) for a couple of years or more, but I believe he's a Harvard grad?

Not Ivy League schools, but:

Chris Drury went to Boston University, and Bill Guerin and Tom Fitzgerald at Boston College; David Polie from Northeastern University; Lou Lamiorello from Providence College; Jarmo K. from Clarkson University?

Stan Bowman....did he go to Notre Dame?

Jason Botterill when a GM had an MBA from University of Michigan? Isn't that considered one of the "public Ivies" I keep hearing about?

Ray Shero when GM was from St. Lawrence University.

Garth Snow was from University of Maine.

George McPhee has been promoted from GM, but I think he went to Boston College.

I assume all of the above graduated, but not exactly sure.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Peter Chiarelli has been out of the league entirely (?) for a couple of years or more, but I believe he's a Harvard grad?

Not Ivy League schools, but:

Chris Drury went to Boston University, and Bill Guerin and Tom Fitzgerald at Boston College; David Polie from Northeastern University; Lou Lamiorello from Providence College; Jarmo K. from Clarkson University?

Stan Bowman....did he go to Notre Dame?

Jason Botterill when a GM had an MBA from University of Michigan? Isn't that considered one of the "public Ivies" I keep hearing about?

Ray Shero when GM was from St. Lawrence University.

Garth Snow was from University of Maine.

George McPhee has been promoted from GM, but I think he went to Boston College.

I assume all of the above graduated, but not exactly sure.

First of all, there are no "public ivies." Schools that don't compete in athletics in the Ivy League are not "Ivies" of any kind. Period, end of story.

A lot of GMs went to college to play hockey, but unlike baseball, they were all players of some stripe, which is why they're not exactly breaking new ground in evaluating talent or thinking about the game the way the Ivy League GMs in baseball have.

Hockey is an old boys club where knuckle-dragging luddites largely rule.

 

[aqib]

I don't recall too many Ive League GMs in NBA and NFL.

Baseball is full of em though.

The Browns are run by Ivy League guys but analytics in sports really started in baseball which makes sense because baseball is a lot more individualistic so you can be more stats driven.

 

[Zenos]

First of all, there are no "public ivies." Schools that don't compete in athletics in the Ivy League are not "Ivies" of any kind. Period, end of story.

No, that's not really the end of the story.
"Public Ivies" is definitely a common and accepted term, referring to the top / most prestigious public universities in the USA. Obviously, they're not actually part of the Ivy League - hence the quotations.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

No, that's not really the end of the story.
"Public Ivies" is definitely a common and accepted term, referring to the top / most prestigious public universities in the USA. Obviously, they're not actually part of the Ivy League - hence the quotations.

There are two types of people: those with Ivy league degrees, and those who couldn't get into Ivy League schools and thus need to qualify their institutions with stupid labels like "Public Ivy."

 

[timorous me]

There are two types of people: those with Ivy league degrees, and those who couldn't get into Ivy League schools and thus need to qualify their institutions with stupid labels like "Public Ivy."

I think there miiiight just be a few more types of people than those two.

 

[jetsforever]

old boys club

So are those older universities though, to an extent

 

[jetsforever]

No, that's not really the end of the story.
"Public Ivies" is definitely a common and accepted term, referring to the top / most prestigious public universities in the USA. Obviously, they're not actually part of the Ivy League - hence the quotations.

There are two types of people: those with Ivy league degrees, and those who couldn't get into Ivy League schools and thus need to qualify their institutions with stupid labels like "Public Ivy."

Well "Ivy League" is literally just a sports conference with 8 universities that are all old and most are also pretty good (jury's still out on Brown and Dartmouth )
For some reason some people use the term "Public Ivy" to mean public universities that are also good, which is a bit silly since not all the best private universities are "Ivy" either (e.g. Stanford - would you call that a "Private Ivy"?)
An equivalent term would be something like "Private Pac-12"

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Well "Ivy League" is literally just a sports conference with 8 universities that are all old and most are also pretty good (jury's still out on Brown and Dartmouth )
For some reason some people use the term "Public Ivy" to mean public universities that are also good, which is a bit silly since not all the best private universities are "Ivy" either (e.g. Stanford - would you call that a "Private Ivy"?)
An equivalent term would be something like "Private Pac-12"

Stanford is not an Ivy. A good school, but not an Ivy.

 

[StreetHawk]

Well, with an Ivy League degree there are certain professions that people will gravitate to.

For someone with an Ivy League degree to go into hockey in a management role, they won’t do it via scouting but more on the business side of things. Like contract negotiations, analytics for today’s generation, maybe arena management if the team has the arena rights. That’s for people walking right into a good position.

most others would require working your way up an organization or working for a smaller hockey program and with an Ivy League education probably not something those people want to do.

 

[pbgoalie]

George Parros is an Ivy Leaguer.
Look how effective he is!

 

[Setec Astronomy]

An Ivy League school doesn’t teach you anything you need to know to be an NHL GM, and you don’t need to be a genius to be a successful NHL GM or an Ivy League graduate.

I’m an Ivy League graduate.

 

[golfortennis]

I think there miiiight just be a few more types of people than those two.

There are 10 types of people. Those who understand binary code, and those who don't.

There are 3 types of people. Those who understand math and those who don't.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

There are two types of people: those with Ivy league degrees, and those who couldn't get into Ivy League schools and thus need to qualify their institutions with stupid labels like "Public Ivy."

Hell of a lot tougher to get into MIT or Cal Tech then it is Brown

 

[Bostonzamboni]

Hell of a lot tougher to get into MIT or Cal Tech then it is Brown

Stanford seems to rate above some or many Ivy schools also. Both in ranking and selectivity (easy to look up acceptance rate for any U.S. school).

Sometimes Stanford is ranked as second best college in America, above most Ivies. Of course, depends on which survey I'm looking at.

 

[patnyrnyg]

As someone pointed out, so few players have come from the 6 Ivy League teams who play D1. If you want to consider non-student athletes or Ivy players who do not become pros, the low pay for entry level jobs in pro sports likely dissuades most from pursuing as a career.

 

[StreetHawk]

As someone pointed out, so few players have come from the 6 Ivy League teams who play D1. If you want to consider non-student athletes or Ivy players who do not become pros, the low pay for entry level jobs in pro sports likely dissuades most from pursuing as a career.

Agreed. Unless they are educated and experienced in areas that utilize their skillset right off the bat like Contract negotiations, analytics, arena management, etc. Just look at how a GM delegates to the people around him. Can you get into one of those areas as an outsider to the sports business at a decent level to pay off that big student loan from an Ivy league school?

 

[Stephen]

Another aspect to the whole "old boys" club argument is maybe there isn't a clear cut advantage to an Ivy League education when you have to deal with a bunch of ex-players and lifers who came up within the game. If you're one of the boys you can wheel and deal within a particular culture, maybe that serves you better than being a perceived outsider with a target like "the smartest guy in the room?"

 

[Bostonzamboni]

Another aspect to the whole "old boys" club argument is maybe there isn't a clear cut advantage to an Ivy League education when you have to deal with a bunch of ex-players and lifers who came up within the game. If you're one of the boys you can wheel and deal within a particular culture, maybe that serves you better than being a perceived outsider with a target like "the smartest guy in the room?"

 

[aqib]

There are two types of people: those with Ivy league degrees, and those who couldn't get into Ivy League schools and thus need to qualify their institutions with stupid labels like "Public Ivy."

The term has been round for at least 30 years. Some magazine (I want to say US News and World Report) did college rankings every year and they coined this phrase to refer to the top public schools in the country. There are also other top schools like University of Chicago and Stanford that are just as good academically as Ivy League schools (some would say Northwestern is up there as well) but just play sports in different conferences.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

The term has been round for at least 30 years. Some magazine (I want to say US News and World Report) did college rankings every year and they coined this phrase to refer to the top public schools in the country. There are also other top schools like University of Chicago and Stanford that are just as good academically as Ivy League schools (some would say Northwestern is up there as well) but just play sports in different conferences.

Everyone knows University of Chicago and Stanford are great schools. They don't need the "Ivy" attached to their name or their walls for people to know that, unlike, say, Michigan, which is a good but not great school, and wants everyone to think it's the equivalent of Harvard.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Schools that are generally considered to be on par (some will say better) than Ivy League schools: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Cooper Union, NYU, U of Chicago, Georgetown. Might be forgetting a few.

 

[aqib]

Schools that are generally considered to be on par (some will say better) than Ivy League schools: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Cooper Union, NYU, U of Chicago, Georgetown. Might be forgetting a few.

Ok I have 2 degrees from NYU and even I wouldn't put it on par with the Ivy League.

 

[aqib]

Everyone knows University of Chicago and Stanford are great schools. They don't need the "Ivy" attached to their name or their walls for people to know that, unlike, say, Michigan, which is a good but not great school, and wants everyone to think it's the equivalent of Harvard.

Again my point is the term was not coined by people who simply got rejected (or couldn't afford Ivy League schools). It was a media generated term for very good public schools.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

It was a media generated term for very good public schools.

... that generally are attended by those who can't get into the Ivy League.