Why doesn’t it work in Miami?

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Hooby Dooby Doo

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Jun 6, 2018
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I agree with some others that theyll support a winner in Sunrise. However, whomever is in charge of their marketing and in game entertainment should be fired, I’ll say that. I grew up about an hour from the arena, it used to be a good experience back when it was National Car Rental and Bank Atlantic center. Theyve tried to turn it into some sort of South Beach club vibe over the past few years though. it’s just an annoying atmosphere/experience and doesn’t feel like you’re at a hockey game at all. Maybe I’ve been spoiled by going to games in Tampa, Nashville, SJ, and other teams that do it well but the Panthers should reassess that too.

Yeah the whole Lexus Club Red is just an empty eyesore. For those who don't know, its the always empty sections behind the benches that is always in full view of the tv camera. I believe its like 200-300 per person and whoever is there is always in the club section and not in a seat.

I dont even care about selling out every night. 15-16k for weekdays and another 2-3k for weekends may be substantial enough. I'll never except a sellout for a Tuesday against Dallas. But 10 years ago, it was never that empty.
 

ForumNamePending

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I don't think this is particularly complicated...

1) The team sucks - This is easily the number 1 reason. This century the Panthers have made the playoffs 3 times... In a league where over half the teams make it! The team hasn't won a playoff series since 1996.
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2) Arena location isn't great - There's a reason most teams want their arena located in vibrant, high density, downtown(ish) locations with good links to public transit and not in locations where a toll road is the demarc between sprawling low density suburbs and the largest national park east of the Rocky Mountains.
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3) Any other reason is relatively minor.
 

Daximus

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I think it's simple teams without arena's in or very close to downtown cores tend to suffer, especially when the going gets tough. Arizona, Florida and Ottawa come to mind. Isles just need to move back to Nassau. Carolina is just not a great long term market.
 
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StrangeVision

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I don't think this is particularly complicated...

1) The team sucks - This is easily the number 1 reason. This century the Panthers have made the playoffs 3 times... In a league where over half the teams make it! The team hasn't won a playoff series since 1996.

That is the reason.

2) Arena location isn't great - There's a reason most teams want their arena located in vibrant, high density, downtown(ish) locations with good links to public transit and not in locations where a toll road is the demarc between sprawling low density suburbs and the largest national park east of the Rocky Mountains.

That is not the reason. It simply doesn't matter. People might roll their eyes at that statement, but look over my posts in this thread.

Look at where the population is down here. It's not around the major cities, it's sprawled across the coast, north to south and east to west. Put the arena in downtown Miami and you're cutting off the northern part of the metro area, I would undoubtedly go to less games if I had to drive further into Miami traffic to go to games, and I say that as a lifelong Panthers fan. If they put it in downtown Fort Lauderdale, driving in would be hell.

Sunrise is just an easy place to get to. I might have to deal with some turnpike traffic, but it's not that big of a deal. And I'm in the upper portion of the Miami metro area, many people are even closer than me, north and south of the arena. And I feel public transport is a moot point as well, everyone drives down here.
 

ForumNamePending

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You live in the area so I'll certainly defer to you, but I would also say that probably makes South Florida an exception when it comes arena location having no impact on the business side of things.

For example, I don't think the Leafs attendance would be as bulletproof as it is if their arena was located in a suburb like Markham or Mississauga instead of downtown Toronto and everything that comes with that... Large number of people living and/or working downtown, subway and commuter rail links, etc.
 
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WSS11

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I will agree 100% that the in arena stuff needs a ton of work, but in no way does it feel like a south beach vibe. maybe they play a little bit more hip hop then other arena's but every arena caters to the demographics.

It feels like they’re just blaring hip hop/ Pit Bull any chance they get to give the illusion of a rowdy atmosphere?... it just seems they care more about it feeling like a party then it being about the game. that’s how I see it anyway. They should maybe focus on the target demographic and cater to the northern cities too like West Palm, Pompano, Coral Springs, Boca Raton, Boynton etc. where you have a lot of snow birds. Expecting the Hispanic community to hold up your attendance when you’re competing against the likes of the Heat, Dolphins, Hurricanes is not a good strategy. They’ve made the playoffs three times since arriving in Sunrise in 1998 winning zero playoff series but yet always drew at least 15k on average 1998 through 2012. Since 2013 they’ve hit a 15k annual average once and it was the year they made the playoffs. Time to change up your marketing approach and more importantly put a winner on the ice.
 

Beezeral

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I think Tampa is a better sports market.
weird. because the rays and Bucs have absolutely awful attendance.

It feels like they’re just blaring hip hop/ Pit Bull any chance they get to give the illusion of a rowdy atmosphere?... it just seems they care more about it feeling like a party then it being about the game. that’s how I see it anyway. They should maybe focus on the target demographic and cater to the northern cities too like West Palm, Pompano, Coral Springs, Boca Raton, Boynton etc. where you have a lot of snow birds. Expecting the Hispanic community to hold up your attendance when you’re competing against the likes of the Heat, Dolphins, Hurricanes is not a good strategy. They’ve made the playoffs three times since arriving in Sunrise in 1998 winning zero playoff series but yet always drew at least 15k on average 1998 through 2012. Since 2013 they’ve hit a 15k annual average once and it was the year they made the playoffs. Time to change up your marketing approach and more importantly put a winner on the ice.

couldn't be further from the truth. Yea, they play Pit Bull more then say the Nashville Predators do, but it's definitely not every chance they get.
 

Perfect_Drug

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I go to Miami Beach every year, and it does NOT seem like a hockey place.

I think its very latino. Beautiful beaches, art deco architecture, Beach community.

It's more like the carribean than a typical US hockey town.


Not only is hockey NOT popular. There is a good chance, you have to explain WHAT hockey is to a majority of the people.
You have to explain that it's kind of like soccer, but you play on ice wearing skates. And instead of kicking the ball, we use a stick with a puck.


But yeah, the Cats don't play in Miami.


I think the rationale of having the team there was the same rationale of having the team in Arizona.

A pretty substantial Canadian Snow-birds go to those places every winter to escape the cold.
 

MSZ

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It's all about winning. Back in the late 90s when Tampa had multiple 50 loss seasons, their rink was pretty much empty too.
 

drktmplr12

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can we lock this dumb thread for real

panthers fan: the team sucks i dont want to leave work early to see a game and it is less than exciting to bring my kid who will likely not remember it
everyone else: yeah but the arena location
panthers fan: there are large populations in each miami, broward and palm beach counties. the arena is located at the intersection of 4 major highways including a toll road.
everyone else: yeah but the arena location
panthers fans: there needs to be sustained success so that the youth is inspired. most of the panthers fans using this board witnessed the 96-97 cup run and it ignited their love for the team. do that a few more times and you will have multiple generations of fans bringing their kids to games.
everyone else: isn't miami hispanic?

what am i reading????
 

Terry Yake

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didn't the panthers play in the old miami arena back in the day?

was their attendance any better in those years?
 

drktmplr12

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didn't the panthers play in the old miami arena back in the day?

was their attendance any better in those years?

Florida Panthers yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

yes, their attendance was strong because wayne huizenga led a huge marketing campaign to drum up excitement and keep butts in seats the first three years. attendance was still strong when they moved to the BBT. it wasn't until the novelty wore off and repeatedly disappointing seasons that many decided it wasn't fun to attend a game. huizenga sold the team in like 2001.

BBT sold out the entire first year.. (98-99)
 

DudeWhereIsMakar

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It would've been interesting to see the Panthers playing at AmericanAirlines Arena, just to see how the attendance would be. But I'm just unsure how it would be for ice hockey. But if I were the owner of AAA I would totally explore that opportunity. Think they had good attendance at Miami Arena.
 

Fenway

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There are 3 main issues - lack of winning, arena location and area demographics.

1. Lack of winning - The Panthers have not done well since the 21st Century began. Winning is key, especially in a non-traditional market. Winning creates a buzz with area sports fans and they start watching on TV and then people like what they see want to go to a game in person. Florida local TV ratings are awful and if fans won't watch for free, they will not pay. NBC ratings are much higher, especially in Palm Beach County so there is interest in the sport.

2 Arena Location - Wayne Huizenga was a Broward County booster and building the arena there was on the surface logical BUT Sunrise was not. The land in Sunrise was much cheaper for a reason, it wasn't as accessible to the entire region. I firmly believe the team would do much better if it was closer to the I-95, Tri-Rail corridor - for example Deerfield Beach.

3 Demographics
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It is an issue and it makes marketing the team that much more challenging.

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Tampa is a smaller market but it has more people in the demographic that hockey appeals to. The Lightning has done a good job targeting that base but even there it is fragile. 4 years ago when the team was in the SCF, TV viewership peaked at only 15% of the entire market watching the games on NBC which means 85% of the market couldn't care less. The Lightning also gets a boost that people who were in their teens back in 2004 are now buying tickets to the games and Amalie Arena is a good hockey barn.

But as far as South Florida is concerned, the team needs to be competitive in the months after football ends to get fans to even sample the product.
 
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RogerRoger

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That is not the reason. It simply doesn't matter. People might roll their eyes at that statement, but look over my posts in this thread.

Look at where the population is down here. It's not around the major cities, it's sprawled across the coast, north to south and east to west. Put the arena in downtown Miami and you're cutting off the northern part of the metro area, I would undoubtedly go to less games if I had to drive further into Miami traffic to go to games, and I say that as a lifelong Panthers fan. If they put it in downtown Fort Lauderdale, driving in would be hell.

Sunrise is just an easy place to get to. I might have to deal with some turnpike traffic, but it's not that big of a deal. And I'm in the upper portion of the Miami metro area, many people are even closer than me, north and south of the arena. And I feel public transport is a moot point as well, everyone drives down here.
Part of this might be selection bias. People outside of Miami might be more likely to go to the games since the arena is convenient for them. But people in Miami might be less likely to go to the games since the arena is not convenient for them.
 

tony d

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I've said in other threads I've always had a soft spot for them but it's just not a hockey market. The team has the talent (Barkov and Huberdau for starters) but can't muster enough consistency to get consistent support.
 

Fenway

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Part of this might be selection bias. People outside of Miami might be more likely to go to the games since the arena is convenient for them. But people in Miami might be less likely to go to the games since the arena is not convenient for them.

Sunrise isn't a bad option for fans in SOUTHWEST Florida as they can zip through the Everglades and the arena is right there.

By comparison fans in West Palm, Boca Raton and other places on the I-95 corridor have to deal with heavy traffic.
 

StrangeVision

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Part of this might be selection bias. People outside of Miami might be more likely to go to the games since the arena is convenient for them. But people in Miami might be less likely to go to the games since the arena is not convenient for them.

Sure there's bias in there, but I will say this, there are far more people living outside Miami than there are inside Miami. Being in Sunrise draws people from Miami AND from further north because it's a good central location.

Sunrise isn't a bad option for fans in SOUTHWEST Florida as they can zip through the Everglades and the arena is right there.

By comparison fans in West Palm, Boca Raton and other places on the I-95 corridor have to deal with heavy traffic.

I lived in Boca for a couple years, took me 30 minutes at most, tack on another 15 from people father east. Now from West Palm it takes around an hour. Bottom line is there's going to be traffic anywhere.

Put it in Miami and there's going to be more immediate traffic around the area and coming in from up north is going to be even more difficult. A Miami location is good for people in Miami and that's about it, likewise for Downtown Fort Lauderdale.

Sunrise is centrally located in the region and it has easy access. If you put it east, you're going to have to drive into the most congested areas in the region. Pretty much the only time I run into heavy traffic going to Sunrise is on Friday evenings, and anyone who uses the turnpike from where I am to the Sunrise Expressway is going to experience the same. Go through my posts and look at how many people live in that area. And that's ignoring everyone to the south of the arena who also have easy commutes.

Sunrise might not be the best for people in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, or West Palm Beach, but it's a damn good compromise for all three.
 

Hooby Dooby Doo

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Jun 6, 2018
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I'd be concerned if they were consistently good and still couldn't draw. There was around 5k increase in attendance from 14-15 to 15-16. Because they had a good run, especially with the 12 game streak they were on. Made the playoffs and drew 17-18k for Games 1 and 2 and game 5 was around 1k over the listed seating capacity at around 20k. They lose a close series to the Isles and then they blew it up, fired Gallant and the rest became history. I dont think we're having this conversation if they built on that season and improved even more. Now were stuck in the dog days again .
 

Melrose Munch

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I urge you to visit Toronto and tell me the white population dominates hockey interest than look at the teams poluarity. Please don’t point to history just look at the Scotiabank arena it is filled every night and it has a HUGE percent of minority. I am very happy it has grown to be diverse and in Aurora (suburb of Toronto part of the greater Toronto area) where I live the minor program immensely grown in minority. I won’t say it’s the majority yet but a lot of my friends and I always joke that whites are now the minority around Toronto and the GTA. When I grew up we had 1 black super whitewashed kid playing hockey and that was as diverse as it got now it’s comeptly changed
Toronto has no NFL team, otherwise this would not be the case.
 
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