Why does the media continue to say Martin Jones is struggling?

[Puckluck13]

I keep hearing expert after "expert" saying he is struggling. He's not, I understand these guys don't stay up past 10 eastern time but come on. Anyone who actually is watching Sharks games knows he is left out to dry almost every game and takes so many high danger chances.

Jones has been fine, even last season.

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[Tage2Tuch]

Because his save percentage didn’t go past 900 last year and if it did it lasted a couple of days.

So there’s that

 

[Puckluck13]

Because his save percentage didn’t go past 900 last year and if it did it lasted a couple of days.

So there’s that

Save percentage doesn't tell the story. Sharks give up grade A chance after grade A chance.

 

[Super Hans]

You ever see the reaction when people say it's the Sharks defensemen who are struggling?

 

[Paris in Flames]

I'm guessing it's due to his inability to stop the puck at a level even a backup would find acceptable. This is now going into season 2 of sub .900.

Why or how isn't that important.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Save percentage doesn't tell the story. Sharks give up grade A chance after grade A chance.

No but it’s by FAR the best individual statistic for measuring how well a goalies doing on a regular basis.

For starters he wasn’t even decent last year, he was below average.

Look I have nothing against the guy you asked a question and I’m answering it for you.

He was good at the beginning but had an off year.

 

[K Fleur]

Save percentage doesn't tell the story. Sharks give up grade A chance after grade A chance.

Yeah well save percentage without any context has become the end all be all for goalie statistics. For better or more likely worse.

 

[Critical13]

Vlasic’s decline reminds me of Wade Redden.

 

[Caeldan]

My biggest concern /issue with Jones is that he always seems to be over committed to the first shot and then has to scramble to recover for any rebounds (which also seem to be fairly prevalent) or he's now out of position for the backdoor pass.

 

[Mattb124]

Because his save percentage didn’t go past 900 last year and if it did it lasted a couple of days.

Presuming you meant last season, which is almost like.....last season.

He's been really good when adequately defended in front of so far this season.

So there’s that

 

[General Disarray]

How is the backup doing?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Yeah well save percentage without any context has become the end all be all for goalie statistics. For better or more likely worse.

There are other goaltending statistics that people have been using for some time now. They show that Jones is still well below average but not nearly as bad as raw save percentage suggests.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I'm guessing it's due to his inability to stop the puck at a level even a backup would find acceptable. This is now going into season 2 of sub .900.

Why or how isn't that important.

So what you are suggesting is that if a goalie gives up a goal on a 5 on 0 he sucks, just stop the puck

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Presuming you meant last season, which is almost like.....last season.

He's been really good when adequately defended in front of so far this season.

So there’s that

Bit defensive are we? With that last line? I mean it’s almost like I hit a nerve. I made it clear I wasn’t bashing the guy and was answering a question about the perception of his play.

Of course they’re going to rely on what he did for a full season over a few games, stigmas don’t erase that quickly unless your posting shutouts and top in the league play which he has not. It will turn around for him, the perception and all that but this whole time I was just answering what the guy asked. Facts are facts are facts.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

So what you are suggesting is that if a goalie gives up a goal on a 5 on 0 he sucks, just stop the puck

This is wrong on so many levels.

Save percentage over the course of a season, not one game, let alone a period, let alone a shift, let alone a goal that would never be 5 on 0.

You’re taking the most extreme example possible in the shortest amount of time possible (sample size) to support your point (if you can even call it that) that save percentage isn’t important. No it doesent tell the whole story, just like a guy with an amazing GAA because he plays behind an awesome defense doesent tell the story either.

But again, it’s the most accurate individual statistic there IS for reading how a goalie is playing over the course of a season in the national hockey league. Yes it gets broken down in advanced stats to quality of chances and all that crap but you’re trying to nullify something that is way too important to negate.

Sorry there is just no way this “argument” is going to end well. Why don’t we just stop looking at points per game and total points for players while we’re at it.

 

[Anglesmith]

This is wrong on so many levels.

Assuming that shot quality will even out over the course of the season means that you don't believe that the effectiveness of teams' defense can ever be significantly different. That's a bit defeatist. If teams aren't able to alter the odds of their goalie letting in goals, why bother playing?

 

[seroes]

From a shaks fan who watches Jones all season long last year... the team left him out to dry and gave up way too many high danger scoring chances last year and that hurt him considerably.

That being said, jones was god awful last year. Both our true

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Yeah well save percentage without any context has become the end all be all for goalie statistics. For better or more likely worse.

There's no context that can sugar coat being 68th in the league in sv% last year...

Not to mention his blistering 3.58/.887 line this year

 

[Langdon Alger]

Vlasic’s decline reminds me of Wade Redden.

Oh, I feel for Sharks fans if that’s the case.

 

[Kale Hulls]

If both goaltenders have bad stats it's the system and not the goaltender. Same goes for good stats btw.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

This is wrong on so many levels.

Save percentage over the course of a season, not one game, let alone a period, let alone a shift, let alone a goal that would never be 5 on 0.

You’re taking the most extreme example possible in the shortest amount of time possible (sample size) to support your point (if you can even call it that) that save percentage isn’t important. No it doesent tell the whole story, just like a guy with an amazing GAA because he plays behind an awesome defense doesent tell the story either.

But again, it’s the most accurate individual statistic there IS for reading how a goalie is playing over the course of a season in the national hockey league. Yes it gets broken down in advanced stats to quality of chances and all that crap but you’re trying to nullify something that is way too important to negate.

Sorry there is just no way this “argument” is going to end well. Why don’t we just stop looking at points per game and total points for players while we’re at it.

I never once said that save percentage isnt important, thank you for your long winded pointless explanation that no one needed

 

[Anomie2029]

Defensive system was rubbish and so was Jones. It doesn't have to be one thing or the other. Jones did face a lot of HD chances against (but not the most in the league mind you) and his HDSV% was low as well.

Last two games Jones has looked good, and the defence has looked tighter around him.

Jones is at best an average NHL goalie. If he can be that for the Sharks, they will do well.

 

[aufheben]

I keep hearing expert after "expert" saying he is struggling. He's not, I understand these guys don't stay up past 10 eastern time but come on. Anyone who actually is watching Sharks games knows he is left out to dry almost every game and takes so many high danger chances.

Jones has been fine, even last season.

People on the east coast don't go to bed at 10PM lol. You guys out west use this as an excuse for everything. We don't have roosters for alarm clocks FFS.

 

[biturbo19]

My biggest concern /issue with Jones is that he always seems to be over committed to the first shot and then has to scramble to recover for any rebounds (which also seem to be fairly prevalent) or he's now out of position for the backdoor pass.

He's always seemed like a bit of a "first save" type goaltender to me. He'll do a great job of taking away that first read and reliably making that first save. Just less talented when it comes to making those adjustments if the defence doesn't control things in front of him as expected, or doesn't clean up rebounds well. Which is a bit of a double-whammy, when things shape up as has been mentioned in this thread...as a defence giving up a lot of high danger chances in front of him.

It's like the complete polar opposite of a guy like...Kari Lehtonen. He could be absolutely phenomenal at making those crazy reaction saves, flying around the crease and covering up for defensive gaffes and bailing out high danger chances surrendered. But at the same time, not always that reliable when it comes to staying in control and making those easy saves at a super high percentage - not letting in those "softies".

All just kinda adds up to a bad situation for Martin Jones' particular skillset, to have a defence like San Jose's in front of him. Not going to flatter his SV% numbers at all. He'd probably look like a beast behind St Louis or Nashville's defence.

 

[izzy]

jones mostly is bad

sharks dont do a good job defending either

its both and it usually takes both for a goalies stats to be as bad as jones