Why do people dislike abdelkader so much?

[Hatter of the Beach]

Only if you want him to count against the cap for 8 more seasons.

I probably wouldn’t do it this season, but honestly I think next year it may be a smart move. 2.12 million for 3 additional years gives us more flexibility in the short term both roster and cal wise and isn’t that much of an issue foe the 3 after his contract would end

 

[Gniwder]

I'd prefer removing him from the lineup by waiving him, if his cap hit isn't an issue we shouldn't give up assets.
Unfortunately Holland doesn't have the balls and/or falls for the sunk cost fallacy.

This is one of the reasons why Holland needs to go. Change has to happen from the top.

 

[avssuc]

I probably wouldn’t do it this season, but honestly I think next year it may be a smart move. 2.12 million for 3 additional years gives us more flexibility in the short term both roster and cal wise and isn’t that much of an issue foe the 3 after his contract would end

I don't know, the added 3 years in cost ($1.055 mil per year) is equal to 1.5 ELC's being rostered in all 6 seasons (until 2026).

The probability that the Wings latest 2nd rounder (pick from the BK that came from the Isles) plays one NHL game is roughly 25%. With the number of prospects they have, the number of picks they have this year and next (three 2nd round picks in 2019 three in 2020 *with the Sharks conditional 2nd), and their ability to acquire more in the next several seasons, I'd think the cap savings over 6 years is worth trying to package Abdelkader with the pick. They could even pay the contract balance like they did with Datsyuk to increase value.

At some point they need to prioritize both roster and cap space over the prospects they are piling up. All my GM experience comes from EA Sports generated simulations tho, so maybe my depth is lacking here.

 

[Bench]

Imagine a free agent has just signed to the Red Wings. They've given him a $4.25 million dollar contract over the next 4 years. He's 32-years-old. He's coming off a 19 point season (12th highest on the team) in 71 games and a -14 (team worst).

And that's the definition of a loyalty contract. We all saw this coming, except the old Wings brass.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Imagine a free agent has just signed to the Red Wings. They've given him a $4.25 million dollar contract over the next 4 years. He's 32-years-old. He's coming off a 19 point season (12th highest on the team) in 71 games and a -14 (team worst).

And that's the definition of a loyalty contract. We all saw this coming, except the old Wings brass.

I am not sure any of us saw it coming this fast. We thought where we are already would be the last couple of years of the contract. This is going to get worse is the really harsh and scary reality in my opinion.

 

[odin1981]

I am not sure any of us saw it coming this fast. We thought where we are already would be the last couple of years of the contract. This is going to get worse is the really harsh and scary reality in my opinion.

Most who didn't think he was any more than average where worried immensely from 30+ if I remember correctly.

The big physical forward that isn't a superstar (shanahan, bertuzzi) doesn't age well at all. Age regression hits those type of players that are just normal fast and abruptly.

Hell look at the worst contracts of the league now. 1/2+ are that type of players who is 30+.

 

[Winger98]

I probably wouldn’t do it this season, but honestly I think next year it may be a smart move. 2.12 million for 3 additional years gives us more flexibility in the short term both roster and cal wise and isn’t that much of an issue foe the 3 after his contract would end

I don't think there's any reason to buy Gator out unless he's clearly impeding the Wings' ability to make necessary moves. Over the next 2-3 years a lot of big contracts are coming off the books, and any guy we draft from here on out will be on the ELC for those years. Plus the cap will keep going up. I think it's more likely we just send him down to GR because the roster spot will be needed more than the cap space.

I am not sure any of us saw it coming this fast. We thought where we are already would be the last couple of years of the contract. This is going to get worse is the really harsh and scary reality in my opinion.

Right now the hope has to be that he can just be a workable 4th liner. And, really, part of that is getting better in the top9. Gator was awful this year and still played ~15 minutes a night, largely because we didn't have a lot of options throughout the year. At least not a lot of good options. The Wings keep plugging young talent into that top9, guys like gator and helm can move comfortably into those 12 minute a night roles and in to the pressbox.

 

[obey86]

I think that we can all feel like winners as long as we make sure that no one feels like a loser.

You gonna stop shitposting in all the threads?

 

[Henkka]

By the numbers: A look at the 10 worst contracts in hockey

Didn't hit on this list.

Mostly defencemen.

Worst forward contracts were Kyle Okposo (worst), Milan Lucic, Loui Eriksson, Bobby Ryan, and Andrew Ladd.

Brent Seabrook was analyzed as the ultimate worst.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

By the numbers: A look at the 10 worst contracts in hockey

Didn't hit on this list.

Mostly defencemen.

Worst forward contracts were Kyle Okposo (worst), Milan Lucic, Loui Eriksson, Bobby Ryan, and Andrew Ladd.

Brent Seabrook was analyzed as the ultimate worst.

He was an honorable mention and I disagree with him not placing top 10...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I am not sure any of us saw it coming this fast. We thought where we are already would be the last couple of years of the contract. This is going to get worse is the really harsh and scary reality in my opinion.

I mean, is it really going to get worse? How much worse can it get than this? Hell it may be better in those last couple years because they could LTIR him if he's injured from being old. There really isn't much of a way for him to go down after 18-19.

 

[Henkka]

He was an honorable mention ....

Yeah, didn't notice at first.

So included in Top15.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

By the numbers: A look at the 10 worst contracts in hockey

Didn't hit on this list.

Mostly defencemen.

Worst forward contracts were Kyle Okposo (worst), Milan Lucic, Loui Eriksson, Bobby Ryan, and Andrew Ladd.

Brent Seabrook was analyzed as the ultimate worst.

I mean, I'd have a really hard time putting him above any of the forwards on that list as being a bad contract.

Okposo, Lucic, Ladd, and Eriksson are clearly worse. More money, similar results.
Ryan is arguably on the same level, but he makes double money essentially and does not post anywhere close to double results.

Abdelkader doesn't have a good contract, but each of those contracts is for more money on similar terms for similar crap performance.

 

[Mlotek]

I am not sure any of us saw it coming this fast. We thought where we are already would be the last couple of years of the contract. This is going to get worse is the really harsh and scary reality in my opinion.

Wait, who couldn't predict that Abdelkader without Datsyuk or Zetterberg inflating his numbers wouldn't sustain his previous production?

I mean he literally struggled with handling passes from Datsyuk to the effect that Datsyuk just started shooting the puck at Abelkader in hopes of it deflecting into the net.

Not to mention Abdelkader his those 40 point marks playing 18 minutes a night. That is like the bare minimum you'd expect from any NHL forward playing 18 minutes a night. Really you'd like to see at least 50 points from a guy getting 18 minutes if not closer to 60.

Also keep in mind Abdelkader was being sheltered during those 40 point seasons having an offensive zone start of around 60% One of those seasons it was near 64%.

Now compare that with a guy like Vanek who has been sheltered by most his coaches due to his notoriously bad defensive play is at 60%

If you see offensive zone start near 40% that typically signifies your defensive specialists, say your Glendening/Ehn type players.

Offensive zone start can be skewed by playing on a great team, but Detroit at that point was barely a bubble wildcard team milking the likes of Pav and Z dry of all their will and effort.

 

[Mlotek]

I mean, I'd have a really hard time putting him above any of the forwards on that list as being a bad contract.

Okposo, Lucic, Ladd, and Eriksson are clearly worse. More money, similar results.
Ryan is arguably on the same level, but he makes double money essentially and does not post anywhere close to double results.

Abdelkader doesn't have a good contract, but each of those contracts is for more money on similar terms for similar crap performance.

GP 429 GA 2.49 Save % 91.6 Win %51.9
GP 624 GA 2.47 Save % 91.8 Win %51.4

These numbers are quite comparable no? Except goalie #1 makes about 1/3 of goalie #2. Looking just at the numbers, and ignoring the hype train around the players, is performance of goalie #2 really worth 3X the salary?

Hence, why I would argue goalie #2 with is one of the worst current contracts in the league. I think we all know who goalie #2 is.

 

[ComradeChris]

Justin Abdelkader is a low IQ individual and has even lower hockey IQ. His wife is beautiful and smart and he looks like an ogre. He doesn’t deserve her... one of us armchair GMs ya know? For being a local representation of talent he isn’t doing Michigan any favors because he blows. Modano was a much better ambassador for the sport of hockey for people in Michigan. As is Larkin. Afrogator should be on Grand Rapids but has that brutal contract. Oh he’s also a Spartan. That doesn’t help his cause. A 50 goal season from him may change my outlook, but even then probably not.

 

[Killerjas]

Because he is not good and his contract stinks. Overpaid player who got his raise due to having 1 good season

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Wait, who couldn't predict that Abdelkader without Datsyuk or Zetterberg inflating his numbers wouldn't sustain his previous production?

I mean he literally struggled with handling passes from Datsyuk to the effect that Datsyuk just started shooting the puck at Abelkader in hopes of it deflecting into the net.

Not to mention Abdelkader his those 40 point marks playing 18 minutes a night. That is like the bare minimum you'd expect from any NHL forward playing 18 minutes a night. Really you'd like to see at least 50 points from a guy getting 18 minutes if not closer to 60.

Also keep in mind Abdelkader was being sheltered during those 40 point seasons having an offensive zone start of around 60% One of those seasons it was near 64%.

Now compare that with a guy like Vanek who has been sheltered by most his coaches due to his notoriously bad defensive play is at 60%

If you see offensive zone start near 40% that typically signifies your defensive specialists, say your Glendening/Ehn type players.

Offensive zone start can be skewed by playing on a great team, but Detroit at that point was barely a bubble wildcard team milking the likes of Pav and Z dry of all their will and effort.

I disagree with the notion that any of us except some of his more extreme haters thought he would be completely washing out of the league already.

He really hasn't been the same guy since the World Cup. While I hated the contract and especially term when it was signed, I don't think it could have been anticipated to go this bad. People can pound their chest and say they knew, good on them. I am just being honest in terms of while I knew this would be a problem, him being a guy I don't want even on my fourth line and washing out of the league already wasn't really on my radar. I thought at worst we would have a physical fourth liner that could take down 30 seconds on the pk every penalty until at least the last couple of years.

His drop in speed and frankly willingness to compete the way he used to does surprise me. I thought he would at least be like Helm in terms of not liking him but finding enough in his effort to not want to throw things at my television.

But sure everyone that knew this should play the lottery. I get hating the contract almost everyone did, but man this isn't close to the player that signed it either. These last two years are far below even my most skeptical floor for this point of his deal when he signed.

Note if you were someone claiming he wasn't a NHL player when he was making Team USA your prediction barely counts as it is the broken clock argument. If AA blows out his knee after signing longterm and falls completely apart while his detractors will have more ammo, it won't represent the reality at least for me of where I evaluate his contract. Abdelkader's contract is awful I just called it bottom 10. But it getting this bad and this fast.... Sorry I will continue to say I don't think you should have expected that this fast. Two different points, I am not defending his deal.

 

[Frk It]

I mean, is it really going to get worse? How much worse can it get than this? Hell it may be better in those last couple years because they could LTIR him if he's injured from being old. There really isn't much of a way for him to go down after 18-19.

No longer being an NHL caliber player. I mean he was really a fringe NHLer by just about all metrics last year, and the guy has 5 years left on his deal. LTIR is not really a magic fix.

 

[TheClap]

Is it him as a player you dislike or the 4.25M cap hit? If he had a 3M cap hit would he not receive as much hate as he does on these boards. Would the wings have a hard time trying to find a fair offer for him from any other team?

He was gifted a top 6 scoring line role, unearned, for no reason other than Babs had a crush on him.
He was mediocre to bad in that role and statistically dragged down Zetterberg and Datsyuk in the twilight of their careers when there were plenty of better options on the roster. This was no more apparent than when they blew a 3-1 series lead against Chicago with Abdelkader sucking the life out of his linemates and Babcock stubbornly refusing to make adjustments in 2013.
His production playing with 2 of the best 2-way centers in the NHL earned him a lot of points by association, and created the undeserved pay raise because of said increase in production. Production that was solely generated by the talent around him, which if it wasn't obvious enough already from just watching him out there, became even more clear the minute Datsyuk retired and his production sank like a cement-shoed corpse in the East River.

All that being said, Abby is a good team guy and a solid grinder. He'd be appreciated much like Glendenning is, if his pay and usage was more in line with Glenny. Babcock/Blashill's roster decisions and Holland's dumbo contract extension forced that dislike.

And yes, the Wings would have a hard time finding a fair offer for him on that contract. That is a David Clarkson level bad contract. Brian Bickell level bad. The kind of contract where you need to give up draft picks to unload on a basement dwelling team desperate to reach the cap floor.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

No longer being an NHL caliber player. I mean he was really a fringe NHLer by just about all metrics last year, and the guy has 5 years left on his deal. LTIR is not really a magic fix.

If his play isn't better and it becomes clear there will be no compliance buyouts as part of the cba we have to consider buying him out next summer. I don't really like buyouts but Abdelkader has to go that route if he cannot hold down a roster spot. It would be depressing to carry his buyout money for a long time too, but at least the ELC replacement will be NHL caliber. This season is it for me with Gator. He needs to prove he can at least somewhat limp through on the fourth line at least a little longer or we need to KO him off the roster in my opinion.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

No longer being an NHL caliber player. I mean he was really a fringe NHLer by just about all metrics last year, and the guy has 5 years left on his deal. LTIR is not really a magic fix.

I mean, it's not really a magic fix and also, if he's not an NHL caliber player, then he gets bought out or dealt with retention and a pick going the other way or whatever. If he does get much worse, then the Wings have to make some sort of move with him. That's I guess what I was saying in a roundabout way. If he gets materially worse, the Wings will make a move like buying him out. If he's a fringe NHLer, they don't necessarily need his cap space nor his roster slot for the next year or two, so they can retain or buy out and only have four years of 1M dead on the cap instead of 8.

 

[SirloinUB]

It's that damn 7 year term that makes this contract so awful. 4.25 x 4 would have been manageable. but still having 4 more years is what kills us with this contact. At least moving forward he is owed less real money and only has a limited no trade clause. We'd still be lucky or paying a premium to find a suitor but in theory there will be increased flexibility after this year.

I didn't mind Helm's contract. Nearly half a mill cheaper and we are only locked in for 2 more years.

 

[TheClap]

If his play isn't better and it becomes clear there will be no compliance buyouts as part of the cba we have to consider buying him out next summer. I don't really like buyouts but Abdelkader has to go that route if he cannot hold down a roster spot. It would be depressing to carry his buyout money for a long time too, but at least the ELC replacement will be NFL caliber. This season is it for me with Gator. He needs to probe he can at least somewhat limo through on the fourth line at least a little longer or we need to KO him off the roster in my opinion.

Why not just waive him? He likely clears and goes to GR but maybe some team trying to reach the cap floor will pick him up and take it off our hands. I realize they still are responsible for his cap hit (minus the league minimum) in the more likely event he does clear and plays in the AHL, but it will be a couple years before the Wings need the cap space while they rebuild.

Pick your poison, $3.275 mil a year until 2023, or $1.4 mil a year until 2027.

I'd ride out his bad contract out and bury him in GR, and if things change in the final year or 2 of his contract and the Wings become competitive and need some cap space to swing a deal for a big free agent, then buy him out when the penalty isn't as severe.

 

[TCNorthstars]

He was an honorable mention and I disagree with him not placing top 10...

Do you disagree with Dom's model?