Why Do NHL Teams Keep Employing Brian Elliott?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by SamSteelFan4Ever, Apr 15, 2018.

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  1. GrkFlyersFan

    GrkFlyersFan Registered User

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    Mason was here for 4.5 years, 4 as starter, which is an eternity for the Flyers. However he changed once Neuvirth became the backup. It made him paranoid. He was great the first couple years here.
     
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  2. DominikBokkFan

    DominikBokkFan How compassionate and empathetic are people truly?

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    Flyers actually were never that bad defensively. The Flyers being bad defensively has been a myth except in the 2012 Pittsburgh series. Goaltending really let them down except for a small portion of the Mason era. Even then Mason was very good but he wasn't elite despite his stats.
     
  3. GrkFlyersFan

    GrkFlyersFan Registered User

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    Oh no, our defense was pretty damn bad for a while after Pronger got his skull cracked. Only now is it slowly getting better. Kimmo was getting old and had to resume the #1 dman role, then it was Mark Streit, also old. Provorov is becoming the #1 we've needed since Pronger. Anyway, Mason was great his first couple years. Then we got Neuvirth, not to threaten him but to upgrade from Emery at backup. Neuvirth was really good that first year and Mason didn't appreciate having to look over his shoulder all the time, worrying about when his next start would be if he played bad. Neuvirth got hurt and Mason got hot. Then last year, Neuvirth was awful, but clearly Hexy and Hakstol were over him. At the end of last year, Mason wanted to be guaranteed to continue to be the starter. We got Elliott instead, as Elliott would likely be more agreeable to a 1a/1b deal. Of course Elliott ended up being the starter outright, and did a good job. But he played so much he got hurt, and barely came back to play the last couple games of the season, so we could get in, and even now, you can tell he's rusty.
     
  4. DominikBokkFan

    DominikBokkFan How compassionate and empathetic are people truly?

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    Well defensively Flyers 5on5 were an excellent team this season.
     
  5. Atas2000

    Atas2000 Registered User

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    If that was true Bryzgalov would still be their starter. He wins the nice guy contest against Elliott by a country mile.

    Elliott is a reasonable bridge signing for them. Their best defenceman is 21. It's not a win now season for them and Eliott is quite cheap by today's standards.

    They will need a real sarter in 2 years or so.
     
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  6. Morinisbear

    Morinisbear Registered User

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    Probably not. They will wait until its out of reach before giving Mrazek a true shot in the Playoffs (just like Game 1 when he should have come in after 3....and the same should have been done in Game 3).
     
  7. DominikBokkFan

    DominikBokkFan How compassionate and empathetic are people truly?

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    IDK about that 100%. Bryzgalov was very vocal and sometimes said bad things about his team mates. Elliott is not like that. Plus Bryzgalov also has a personality.
     
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  8. GrkFlyersFan

    GrkFlyersFan Registered User

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    HA! Everyone was over Bryz's "nice guy" personality in short order. On the last day of his second and final season, he lashed out at the media.
     
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  9. LeafFever

    LeafFever Registered User

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    I always said Elliott was a product of Hitchcock. He's been really bad every else he's played.
     
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  10. GrkFlyersFan

    GrkFlyersFan Registered User

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    Mrazek as a Flyer: 6-6-3, 3.22 GAA, .891. Why he deserves a shot at anything is beyond me. We almost missed the playoffs because of him. Elliott's rusty and it shows, but even with great goaltending, we still wouldn't win Game 1 or 3. If Mrazek had played better in March, Elliott wouldn't have had to come back before he was ready to save the season the last couple games. Last time we saw him start he gave up 5 to an Islander team that was to miss the playoffs.
     
  11. JianYang

    JianYang Registered User

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    There's is always room for a 1b goalie in this league like Elliott.
     
  12. Morinisbear

    Morinisbear Registered User

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    And Elliot would have let in 10 in that Islander game. Elliot hasn't given a reason to be in net either. When you are down 3-0 BECAUSE of the Goalie, the Goalie needs to be pulled no matter who it is. Elliot has no right to start and a message needs to be sent. The outcome of 1 and 3 could have been totally different with some big saves (or even routine ones). He is a garbage playoff goalie and always has been. That doesnt seem to be changing any time soon. When the Goalie is pissing away games in the Playoffs, the other deserves a shot while there is still a chance. It's what a good coach should do...plain and simple.
     
  13. MacDonald4MVP

    MacDonald4MVP Registered User

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    Elliott is a nicer person.
     
  14. nbwingsfan

    nbwingsfan Registered User

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    Exactly. He' a great option as a 1B type goalie where you either have cap space and want to rest your started often, or an inexperienced started, and you want your backup to play ~30 games a year.

    He is however an awful goalie to bring into the plaoffs as a starter.
     
  15. Atas2000

    Atas2000 Registered User

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    Only because your media and some teammates treated him like a piece of crap. It is amazin how much lies and stupidity he fot dor just being there. Goaltendinf is still a sensitive spot in Philadelphia.
     
  16. GoldenSeal

    GoldenSeal Registered User

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    I think there's more emphasis on Goaltending than there is blowing six PP opportunities and allowing seven PP to a up-and-coming dynasty that the Pens are becoming and their game is aggressive offense. The entire team bombed, not just your netminding. Play smart and for the love of God, keep checking the F out of Crosby and watch the Flyers fortunes turn around. If you're living and dying by one player, you're setting yourself up for failure and the Flyers are a far better team than that.
     
  17. GrkFlyersFan

    GrkFlyersFan Registered User

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    Wait, a minute, a 7-0 game could have been different? Only a couple of those goals were his fault. Game 3 the same. The play was so lopsided. He hasn't been great aside from Game 2, and there's some truth to saying he has a bad track record in the playoffs, but he deserves to be in there. He's been the starter all year. Mrazek is not winning Game 1 or Game 3. Putting your 3rd goalie in net is pure desperation, and as bad as Elliott has been overall this series, us Flyers fans who suffered through Mrazek all March to the point that people started to love Alex Lyon are in no hurry to see him again. Of course we all pray that Carter Hart is the real deal and Elliott is just a bridge to him.
     
  18. GrkFlyersFan

    GrkFlyersFan Registered User

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    I mean, I won't pretend our media outside of Meltzer doesn't suck or run players out of town. They did treat him like a piece of crap. He also said a lot of weird things and his play wasn't the greatest. He was not the Vezina candidate that Homer signed him to be. Not even close.
     
  19. Flair Hay

    Flair Hay Registered User

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    He shouldn't be starting in the playoffs that's for sure
     
  20. GrkFlyersFan

    GrkFlyersFan Registered User

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    Granted, every starter that struggles ever can make the other option(no matter who it is) look appealing, but in this case, we have little/no choice.
     
  21. Morinisbear

    Morinisbear Registered User

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    Goalie Stats

    Season

    Age

    Tm

    Lg

    GP

    GS

    W

    L

    T/O

    GA

    SA

    SV

    SV%

    GAA

    2009-10

    24

    OTT

    NHL

    4

    4

    1

    2

    0

    14

    95

    81

    .853

    4.14

    2011-12

    26

    STL

    NHL

    8

    7

    3

    4

    18

    187

    169

    .904

    2.37

    2012-13

    27

    STL

    NHL

    6

    6

    2

    4

    12

    149

    137

    .919

    1.90

    2014-15

    29

    STL

    NHL

    1

    0

    0

    0

    0

    1

    7

    6

    .857

    2.31

    2015-16

    30

    STL

    NHL

    18

    18

    9

    9

    0

    43

    546

    503

    .921

    2.44

    2016-17

    31

    CGY

    NHL

    4

    4

    0

    3

    0

    12

    100

    88

    .880

    3.89

    2017-18

    32

    PHI

    NHL

    3

    3

    1

    2

    0

    11

    80

    69

    .863

    4.43

    Career

    NHL

    44

    42

    16

    24

    0

    111

    1164

    1053

    .905

    2.71
    Vs. (behind much worse defenses)


    Goalie Stats

    Season

    Age

    Tm

    Lg

    GP

    GS

    W

    L

    T/O

    GA

    SA

    SV

    SV%

    GAA

    2014-15

    22

    DET

    NHL

    7

    7

    3

    4

    0

    14

    186

    172

    .925

    2.11

    2015-16

    23

    DET

    NHL

    3

    3

    1

    2

    0

    4

    73

    69

    .945

    1.36

    2017-18

    25

    PHI

    NHL

    1

    0

    0

    0

    0

    2

    14

    12

    .857

    3.87

    Career

    NHL

    11

    10

    4

    6

    0

    20

    273

    253

    .927

    1.98

    I'm taking the second goalie. It's the Playoffs and you need to give the team the best chance to win IN THE PLAYOFFS. Dont care what people thought they saw in March. The team in front of him was bi-polar and he was set up to be run out of town by the end of the year.
     
  22. GeeoffBrown

    GeeoffBrown Registered User

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    Teams grab Elliott because they are bargain hunting.
     
  23. GrkFlyersFan

    GrkFlyersFan Registered User

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    He was traded for to help tread water since we were suddenly out both our starter and backup, and Elliott was out longer than expected, so really he had to be counted on. He won his first 3, but then fell off a cliff. Yes, the team is to blame for a lot of this, but it became obvious fairly quickly why Detroit gave up on him. I guarantee you if he had played better in that stretch, Hakstol would have had a lot more to think about and the urgency of having to get Elliott back in there would have been less, because as you can see, he's rusty. We won that second to last game against Carolina in spite of him, and he pitched a 17 save shutout in the last game against a Rangers team that just wanted the season to be over. So now based on those 2 games, and on merit for doing a decent job all year, Elliott is the Game 1 starter, he sucked, as the whole team did. Gets another shot in Game 2, he was great. Game 3, bad again, but again, a game Mrazek wouldn't have won either. As you say, Mrazek is meant to be run out of town. A rental, pure and simple. Did he accomplish the job of treading water? If so, barely.
     
  24. ShelbyZ

    ShelbyZ Registered User

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    IMO, that would be a terrible basis for giving Mrazek the nod... Consider the following:

    1. In that 7 game series in 14/15, Mrazeks game to game consistency was a complete Jekyll and Hyde act. He'd have a big game (shutout or .95+ SV%), follow that up with a mediocre to downright bad game, and then follow that with another big game. That pattern stretched the entire series.

    2. As far as "behind much worse defenses" goes.... In the 10 playoff games that Mrazek played for the Red Wings, those "worse defenses" held a Tampa team that went deep in the playoffs both years to an average of 27.19 shots per 60 minutes (24.33 in the 3 games in 15/16). They allowed 46 in one game, but otherwise kept Tampa under 30 in 7 of them. The Flyers "much better" defense has allowed the Pens to shoot 31.33/60 so far in games 1-3....

    3. Mrazeks career numbers against the Pens are TRASH. Before his relief appearance for Elliott in Game 1, his numbers against the Pens were:

    8 Games (7 starts, 5 of which came in 14/15 and 15/16 when the Red Wings were still decent enough to reach 100 and 93 points respectively, and make the playoffs)
    2-5-1
    .8865 SV%
    3.93 GAA
    Bonus stat: He was pulled in 3 of those 7 starts, all of which were due to performance

    If you take out the one non start (his relief appearance after Lyon got pulled on 3/25/18), you have:

    2-5-0
    .8842 SV%
    4.02 GAA


    About the only thing the Flyers could hope for is that Mrazek has a repeat of 15/16. That year he was similarly a dumpster fire for March/April (as well as the second half of February) in the regular season, which prompted the team to go with Howard to start the playoffs. When Howard lost games 1 and 2, they switched to Mrazek and he played great (albeit for only 3 games), before he went back to being a dumpster fire for just about all of 16-17.

    I'd say the Flyers chances going forward would be no better starting Mrazek over Elliott...
     
  25. Morinisbear

    Morinisbear Registered User

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    Elliot had a far superior D in front of him in his one decent Playoff year. He is a terrible Playoff goalie and it is known. I appreciate the effort, but none of what you guys are saying is going to sway me. The only way would be if they finally gave the nod to Mrazek (not with them being down 3-1 and the team playing emotionless) and he totally crapped the bed. If he started tonight and played like dogsh*t, I will give you guys your props and say "I was wrong". If that doesnt happen, none of this means anything and we can each believe what we want. I know my thinking is the minority and I'm fine with that, but Mrazek has something special that could propel a team. Yes, he has a tendency to over play at times, but he has the athleticism to make up for it. With one of his big saves, we could witness a rally that would really help the team wake the f up as a team.

    All of this said, Hak has made terrible decisions and regardless of the Goalie it may be a first round exit anyway.

    To respond:
    1. Elliot is the same way except his bad is WORSE and the coach wont pull him until it's too late.
    2. St. Louis had one of the best Defensive systems out there, almost equivalent to the Devils of past.
    3. Don't feel like posting all of the stats, but prior to this year Jimmy Howards stats against Pitt were pretty bad as well. Were they away with Mrazek in net. I just looked up a stat and dear god, Detroit has a tough time in Pitt.
    Away24554.313
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018

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