Why do England suck?

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,193
15,386
As someone who follows a lower league English team, Southend United, I feel like I have seen the effects and efforts by those higher up to try to "fix" the England team and there are many things that need to happen, it is a lot more than just getting a manager in who could make things work. It would work but it goes far deeper than that.

The biggest issue in the FA and England is that the Premier League has far too much power. I get that it is the leading league with all the star power but they have too much influence over what lower league clubs can do and what changes are made to competitions. As soon as England went out I looked back at the changes they're making to the Football League Trophy and they are a perfect microcosm of what is wrong with the English game on one level. Instead of looking at the real issues they're targeting lower league clubs and messing with their games so that their pampered reserves can get precious game time. For those not aware, the Football League Trophy is a competition open to only League One and League Two teams. League One is two steps below the Premiership. It is a fairly minor competition that teams only real care about when they start getting further. But, it is a bit of fun and offers the lower league teams a chance to play at Wembley. I've seen Southend play in the final twice, missing the third appearance as I was on holiday. Twice we played at the Millenium Stadium and once, in 2013, at Wembley. We've lost all three finals 2-0, so our record isn't great.

It is currently a knockout competition which is regionalised to help with travel and to attempt to generate good attendances. It doesn't always work because there are only so many times you can watch Accrington play Morecambe and it is a midweek competition so not every can go due to work. Last year in the first round the average attendance was around 2100 in the North and 1650 in the South. No great, but it does at least get some people through. Now the FA have decided to bastardise it by expanding it and allowing 16 teams with category 1 status to play "B" Teams. Basically, 16 Premier League teams. They have cited this is for development of players and this will give a financial boost to teams in the lower leagues. But it won't because we don't want to see Liverpool "B" v Accrington. We don't Premier League "B" Teams in the competition that is ours to call "home". It is also a dangerous stepping stone to allowing "B" teams in the league. Originally it was supposed to be an U21 entry for that has become U23 and there is no restriction on nationality along with four overage players being allowed. Tell me, how will that help the national team?

The reason why I am pointing this out as one of the points is that the Premier League has pushed this through as they care more about their product and aren't willing to look beyond to fix problems they see. They offered clubs extra money and the potential to win £10k a game. Whoop-de-do. For most teams that would barely cover the cost of putting a team out. Oh and they also want to end ties with a penalty shoot-out in the new group stage. Ewww. One of the big problems for bringing through new young players in the English game is that they buy players when they're young and shove them in their reserves. They stagnate and don't loan them, rather they keep them. An example is Nick Powell. He was a player for Crewe Alexandra and made his debut at 16. He was bought by Man United and hailed as a bright young thing. Like many other young players that go up to big clubs the pressures and expectations are too much at that age but the teams do little to help. They could have let him return to Crewe on loan but for 16 months he sat on the bench before being sent to Wigan on loan.

You could say, "Ah-ha, you need "B" teams then, so they can play". No, they should be loaned out to real teams at a competitive level for them and one that will let them develop as they were against like-minded players to continue their path. Now, you can't stop teams buying players but I feel there should be more oversight and help from the governing bodies and PFA for young players on what is best for their career and with the clubs to help their development best. For every Nick Powell there is a John Bostock too. You would think that if lower league teams sold their best players and their most talented youngsters they would get a fair whack too. Nope. The Premier League saw to that as well. Football League clubs were blackmailed into accepting a new transfer system or they would see a reduction in funding. It's called the Elite Player Performance Plan. I could go into detail about this and why is risks seeing academies killed off, but this link will suffice for now..

Funding in the grassroots game and academies is one of the best chances we have of getting more young talent through and better players in the future like Germany did after Euro 2000. There are a lot of good academies in England both in the top leagues and in non-league and with league clubs but funding isn't enough and they find it hard to fund themselves, which is why they often have to sell players to fund it sometimes. It is accepted that lower league clubs do develop players to sell, but they should have to do it to keep their academies going. The FA and Premier League could develop more complex's like St.George's Park around the country and fill them with talented staff but reducing coaching costs and training new coaches up. These regional centers would give players attached to clubs access to state of the art ares for evaluation and extra facilities to access. There should also be a drive to improve club facilities as well, so they can improve the players coming through. This of course would cost money and the Premier League won't want to part with that.

If we had more Crewe Alexandra's and Sheffield United's we would have a lot more talented younger players coming through. This would reduce the cost of English players as it is heavily linked to supply and demand, and wouldn't Premier teams want to reduce costs of transfers? The academies are also linked to the lack of coaches and that is due to the cost of the course which costs thousands and is a price a lot of people can't afford.

I could go on and I will reply to people's points if they want but there are many more things I could write about why the English game is dying and why those at the top are too blind and greedy to do anything but If I do any more it will be too long. I could probably type it up properly somewhere at some point, but feel free to discuss my thoughts on a few issues with the English game.

B teams in general in British football are absolute *********, but there could in fact be a worse structure for a reformed lower league trophy: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/you-believe-irn-bru-sponsorship-8171608

Every time there's one of these inquests the cost of coaching and amount of coaches relative to other European countries comes up and nothing ever seems to be done about it.
 

Shrimper

Trick or ruddy treat
Feb 20, 2010
104,192
5,268
Essex
B teams in general in British football are absolute *********, but there could in fact be a worse structure for a reformed lower league trophy: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/you-believe-irn-bru-sponsorship-8171608

Every time there's one of these inquests the cost of coaching and amount of coaches relative to other European countries comes up and nothing ever seems to be done about it.

Christ, that's awful. Who thought that would be a good idea. Some people really should be shot into the sun.
 

Shrimper

Trick or ruddy treat
Feb 20, 2010
104,192
5,268
Essex
If you want any further proof of why lower league fans view the organisers of the Premier League as bad. At the Stevenage AGM a fan asked why their team voted for it:

Phil's view as explained by Stuart Dinsey is that it was and is a pretty meaningless trophy. Without a change it may have died. The EFL were forceful in explaining to the membership that if the deal wasn't accepted the PL drip down of money into the FL may not be quite as generous, (they never said as much but that is what they said in not so many words, 'a gun to the head' was how Stuart explained it to me 'Back this or take your chances')

Phil also obviously sees the money, if the the trophy ceased to be, we would lose a minimum of 2 home games in the group stages, maybe more if we actually managed to win, and the chances of a bit of TV exposure.

Blackmail, pure and simple
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
16,406
3,448
38° N 77° W
Counterpoint: There is basically no lower league culture at all in Spain and barely one in France, Italy and NL. The only country which gets even remotely close to England in terms of interest in lower league teams is Germany and even there, B teams are a common sight at 3rd tier level and below.

While the power of the Premier League vs lower league teams is a subject worth discussing, I don't think it has anything to do with the England football team. Except in perhaps illustrating that the issues which really drive English fans relate to league football, not international football.
 

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,193
15,386
Christ, that's awful. Who thought that would be a good idea. Some people really should be shot into the sun.
The SPFL (the clubs) and the SFA (the everything else) enjoy their symbiotic relationship because it makes them money. The head of the FA Stewart Regan is an incompetent weasel of a man, but he remains in his position because the clubs (or, the people running them) keep voting for him.

Counterpoint: There is basically no lower league culture at all in Spain and barely one in France, Italy and NL. The only country which gets even remotely close to England in terms of interest in lower league teams is Germany and even there, B teams are a common sight at 3rd tier level and below.

While the power of the Premier League vs lower league teams is a subject worth discussing, I don't think it has anything to do with the England football team. Except in perhaps illustrating that the issues which really drive English fans relate to league football, not international football.

I think this is dependent on how far down you describe "lower league" as. The difference in money between the Championship and League One is near incomprehensible. Even still, the best players at individual clubs at all levels will still get hoovered up by the big teams and not develop properly because they're not playing. About the only one recently who played for any sustained length of time at a lower league club in England before getting a move and being successful is Dele Alli who played something like a hundred games for MK Dons. Having clubs at those levels being able to support themselves with their own players is something that should be encouraged given the depth of support (financial and physical) that so many English clubs have.

I'm probably remembering somewhat wrongly but I think in Germany all the Bundesliga teams and then all the teams in the level before that have academies, something that the German FA put in. There seems to be much stricter rules on player development and the running of clubs in Germany which the money in England has overrun.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
16,406
3,448
38° N 77° W
I think this is dependent on how far down you describe "lower league" as. The difference in money between the Championship and League One is near incomprehensible. Even still, the best players at individual clubs at all levels will still get hoovered up by the big teams and not develop properly because they're not playing. About the only one recently who played for any sustained length of time at a lower league club in England before getting a move and being successful is Dele Alli who played something like a hundred games for MK Dons. Having clubs at those levels being able to support themselves with their own players is something that should be encouraged given the depth of support (financial and physical) that so many English clubs have.

I'm probably remembering somewhat wrongly but I think in Germany all the Bundesliga teams and then all the teams in the level before that have academies, something that the German FA put in. There seems to be much stricter rules on player development and the running of clubs in Germany which the money in England has overrun.

The academy system is a totally different subject though. And whether a young player with world-class potential is more helped or hurt by playing in intensely competitive 3rd or 4th tier fixtures with and against 30 year old journeymen who can barely pass the ball 10 yards on water-logged pitches is a different question too.

Look at the other national teams, the majority of them switched to big clubs in their countries by the time they're 15-16.
 

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,193
15,386
Better than literally all of the other options that have been mooted since Roy bumbled off. Make of that what you will.
 

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