Why didnt we give the Sedins more on ice help?

[FreeMcdavid]

Obviously one of the biggest regret I have as a life-long Canuck fan is not seeing the Sedins win the cup. Looking back in history, i have to ask, why didnt we give the Sedins more help? It looks like we chose to hang on to our picks instead. There could have been a chance that the Sedins would have had more than 1 crack at Lord Stanley if we just pulled the trigger and gave up some assets.


I know management made deals in off-season but that doesnt change the fact that they left a lot of bullets in the chamber,
Let's take a look at some of our transactions or lack there of around the Trade Deadline.

2008-2009
Canucks acquire Nathan Mciver for Mike Brown - Feb 2009

2009 Draft

1st round- Jordan Schroeder
2nd round- Anton Rodin
3rd round- Kevin connoauton
4th round- Jeremy Price


2009-2010

Canucks Acquire Yann Stastny for Pierre Cedric Labrie - Mar 3 2009
Canucks Acquire Sean Zimmerman and 6th rnd pick for Matheiu Schneider - Mar 3- 2009
Canucks Acquire Andrew Alberts for 3rd rnd pick - Mar 2009

2010 Draft

round 4 - Mcnally
round 5 - Polasek
round 6- Friesen

2010-2011

Canucks Acquire Maxime Lapierre , Mcgregor Sharp for Joel Perrault and 3rd round pick
Canucks Acquire Christopher Higgins, for Oberg, 3rd rnd pick


2011 Draft

1st rnd- Niclas Jensen
3rd rnd- David Honzik
3rd rnd Alexander Grenier
4th rnd- Joe Labate
4th rnd- Ludwig Blomstrand


2011-2012 season
Canucks acquire Andrew Gordon for Sebastian Erixon
Canucks acquire Zack Kassian, Marc- Andre Gragnani for Cody Hodgson , Alex Sulzer

2012 Draft

1st rnd - Brendan Gaunce
2nd rnd- Alexander Maller
5th rnd - Ben Hutton

2012-2013

Canucks Acquire Derek Roy for Kevin Connauton, 2nd rnd pick

2013 Draft

1st rnd pick -Bo Horvat- (from Schneider trade)
1st rnd pick- Hunter Shinkaruk
3rd rnd- cole cassels
4th - jordan subban
5th- anton cederholm


As you can see we ended up betting on prospects and draft picks that turned into what those picks are now.

I want to say that I would not lose any sleep if Benning gets fired if we miss the season this year, as he rightfully should but you gotta admire the fact that he is betting on real NHL legit players like JT Miller and Tyler Toffolli vs picks and prospects. Wasn't Dave Nonis referred to as "Dave "No-nuts" I really enjoy this aggressive mindset and i guarantee you the players in the locker room enjoy it 100x more.

The Canucks have had the worst overall record combined over the last 4 years. We need to support our core with NHLers and give them a chance to compete and grow in a winning culture. Our fan base needs to transition from prospect and pick collecting, those days are over.

I'm on boared trying to get as many cracks as possible at making a run in the playoffs, a blue-print we clearly did not have during the days of our best players in franchise history.

Click to read more...

 

[Angry Little Elf]

I think Gillis was gun shy about pulling off a big trade. Despite our abysmal drafting under him, he was hesitant about trading a first round pick. I believe he only ever traded one first round pick for Keith Ballard. We always had 3rd line wingers (Higgins, Torres, Raymond) punching above their weight. Gillis patience was his undoing

 

[mathonwy]

Because for "whatever reason", post-2011, nobody except for Florida was willing to trade with the Canucks.

The Kadri and Gardiner for Luo deal that almost happened but didn't.

Maple Leafs, Canucks unlikely to agree on deal for Roberto Luongo

Toronto was definitely yanking the Canucks around and negotiating in bad faith here.

Why?

Because.... <insert-speculation-here>

Post-2011, Canucks were definitely on an island on our own. Refs hated us. Media (Ron MacLean for sure) hated us. Fans hated us.

Sedins ended having to carry this effing franchise all on their own until their retirement. Good thing there was two of them.

 

[Fire Benning]

Gillis' biggest mistake was being too cautious about sacrificing future assets to go all in. Like going after Sammy Pahlsson instead of Jeff Carter in 2012.

 

[I am toxic]

//snip

The Canucks have had the worst overall record combined over the last 4 years. We need to support our core with NHLers and give them a chance to compete and grow in a winning culture. Our fan base needs to transition from prospect and pick collecting, those days are over.

//snip

Those days never were. We only obtained two additional draft picks in the last 5 drafts. Ignoring 4th to 7th round picks, we have had five 1sts/three 2nds/four 3rds over those last 5 drafts. Any additional draft picks were in the 4th to 7th rounds. For a team that has one of the worst records over the past 4 years.

Our fan base needs to transition to holding this pathetic management group accountable, and demand they be replaced with someone competent.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Gillis' biggest mistake was being too cautious about sacrificing future assets to go all in. Like going after Sammy Pahlsson instead of Jeff Carter in 2012.

Exactly, and look how that turned out.

We ended up with scrub prospects and no playoff success outside of 2011 to show for it.

Imagine if we traded our 2011 1st rnd pick at the deadline and given the Sedins any help with whatever that would have fetched. Instead we keep the pick and we draft Niclas Jensen!

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Imagine if we had a goal scorer of Miller’s caliber during the Sedin’s time.

 

[Flik]

Gillis' biggest mistake was being too cautious about sacrificing future assets to go all in. Like going after Sammy Pahlsson instead of Jeff Carter in 2012.

Weren't there also rumblings of a possible deal re: Corey Perry for Hodgson++? Or was that just a BS rumour?

In any case, Gillis definitely should have gone all-in on a move like getting Carter (or an equally strong scoring forward) here, that would have likely put us over the top.

That's my only real beef with his tenure here. What a waste, oh well.

 

[4Twenty]

Why did this need its own thread. It’s very much a management discussion.

Id also like to refute the idea there was ever days of pick and prospect collecting. It didn’t happen.

Trading picks and prospects as capital has been part of this regimes modus operandi the entire time.

It’s just now it’s Miller and Toffoli and not Vey, Baertschi, Sutter and Gudbranson.

The acquisition quality seems improved but they’ve been doing this the whole time. It’s not new and there was never pick/prospect collecting. They’ve ran a deficit in draft picks throughout.

 

[I am toxic]

Why did this need its own thread. It’s very much a management discussion.

Id also like to refute the idea there was ever days of pick and prospect collecting. It didn’t happen.

Trading picks and prospects as capital has been part of this regimes modus operandi the entire time.

It’s just now it’s Miller and Toffoli and not Vey, Baertschi, Sutter and Gudbranson.

The acquisition quality seems improved but they’ve been doing this the whole time. It’s not new and there was never pick/prospect collecting. They’ve ran a deficit in draft picks throughout.

Exactly. It never happened.

 

[timw33]

If the subtext here is that it's good to push all your chips in, it's misguided. The time to put your chips in is when your team is as good as the 10-11 and 11-12 teams, not the 19-20 calibre teams.

 

[Phil Brooks]

Exactly, and look how that turned out.

We ended up with scrub prospects and no playoff success outside of 2011 to show for it.

Imagine if we traded our 2011 1st rnd pick at the deadline and given the Sedins any help with whatever that would have fetched. Instead we keep the pick and we draft Niclas Jensen!

The 2011 team was a well-oiled machine that had what it took to win it all. They were tops in almost every statistical category so I don't blame Gillis for having faith in the group that he had at the time and only bringing in a few smaller pieces as insurance instead of shaking the team up.

It still makes me sad to think, what if Malhotra didn't get hit in the eye, or what if Hamhuis didn't throw that hip check on Lucic, or what if Tampa defeated Boston in Game 7 of the ECF

 

[VanJack]

It really starts and ends with dismal drafting. Sedins were acquired originally by Brian Burke in what is now being hailed as the best draft-day move in history. Kesler and Luongo were drafted or acquired by other regimes. In fact, Gillis basically walked into a stacked situation--the equivalent of an NHL just opening the gate for a lot of talented players.

Having said that, let's face it....if the Canucks had made just one draft change in 2005, the Sedins would have won their Cup. Instead of the late Luc Bourdon, Anze Kopitar would have been a better choice.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Gillis was too conservative
The fact that we had our own first round pick in 2010/11/12 was a joke

 

[RandV]

As you can see we ended up betting on prospects and draft picks that turned into what those picks are now.

I want to say that I would not lose any sleep if Benning gets fired if we miss the season this year, as he rightfully should but you gotta admire the fact that he is betting on real NHL legit players like JT Miller and Tyler Toffolli vs picks and prospects. Wasn't Dave Nonis referred to as "Dave "No-nuts" I really enjoy this aggressive mindset and i guarantee you the players in the locker room enjoy it 100x more.

The Canucks have had the worst overall record combined over the last 4 years. We need to support our core with NHLers and give them a chance to compete and grow in a winning culture. Our fan base needs to transition from prospect and pick collecting, those days are over.

I'm on boared trying to get as many cracks as possible at making a run in the playoffs, a blue-print we clearly did not have during the days of our best players in franchise history.

Nonis 2006 deadline (missed playoffs):

New Jersey Devils acquire	Date	Vancouver Canucks acquire
2006 4th round pick (#107-T.J. Miller) [TBODY] [/TBODY]	March 9, 2006	Sean Brown [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Anaheim Ducks acquire	Date	Vancouver Canucks acquire
Brett Skinner 2006 2nd round pick (#38-Bryce Swan) [TBODY] [/TBODY]	March 9, 2006	Juha Alen Keith Carney [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Buffalo Sabres acquire	Date	Vancouver Canucks acquire
2006 2nd round pick (#46-Jhonas Enroth) [TBODY] [/TBODY]	March 9, 2006	Mika Noronen [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Vancouver Canucks acquire	Date	Atlanta Thrashers acquire
2007 conditional 4th round pick (3rd round if McCarthy re-signed with Thrashers) (#115-Niklas Lucenius) [TBODY] [/TBODY]	March 9, 2006	Steve McCarthy [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Vancouver Canucks acquire	Date	St. Louis Blues acquire
Eric Weinrich [TBODY] [/TBODY]	March 9, 2006	Tomas Mojzis 2006 3rd round pick (#77-Vladimir Zharkov) [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Nonis 2007 deadline (made 2nd round):

Los Angeles Kings acquire	Date	Vancouver Canucks acquire
2007 or 2008 2nd round pick (2007 #61-Wayne Simmonds) 2008 4th round pick (#101-Justin Jokinen) [TBODY] [/TBODY]	February 26, 2007	Brent Sopel [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Vancouver Canucks acquire	Date	Chicago Blackhawks acquire
Bryan Smolinski [TBODY] [/TBODY]	February 26, 2007	2007 or 2008 2nd round pick (Blackhawks choice) (2007 #56-Akim Aliu) [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Nonis 2008 deadline (missed playoffs):
Ownership was pushing hard to acquire Brad Richards and it would have cost us something like Ryan Kesler, Alex Edler, and Corey Schneider, but Nonis wouldn't budge and got fired in the offseason.



While there's the case to be made that Gillis could have pressed harder at specific points a big reason we veered away from deadline deals was because Nonis wasted so much there leaving the farm system completely barren. That had to be rebuilt from the ground up, and Gillis was focusing on the long game where you make the playoffs every year while building a pipeline of talent coming up from the farm system. If he started throwing picks away when his team would never climb out of the hole Nonis left - and keep in mind our organizational farm depth in 2011 should have been from guys Nonis drafted in his 2 years and we basically had Sergei Shirokov and Mario Bliznak as our non-1st draft picks on the farm.

Basically a primary reason you or other fans can look at the current situation enviously is because we've been out of the playoffs so long that the sting of spending a bunch of good future assets for a couple playoff games then having nothing to show for it after has been forgotten. Granted because it's been so long and the fact that the Pacific is open makes it a pretty good time to make a push, but this is a one-off and the point still stands.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Drafting was the downfall of the Gillis Regime not the trade deadline. If we had solid prospects coming into the organization that would’ve pushed the team over the top. Boston’s drafting and influx of youth was the difference.

Marchand 22
Lucic 22
McQuaid 23
Sequin 19
Hamill 22
Kampfer 22

 

[Siludin]

Gillis' biggest mistake was being too cautious about sacrificing future assets to go all in. Like going after Sammy Pahlsson instead of Jeff Carter in 2012.

It wasn't the caution that was bad, it was his execution with those assets (drafting) which was so poor.
You save all your food for the winter but then it rots before you can eat it.
Benning seems to have the opposite problem where he nails picks but tends to trade his top picks and good prospects away.

 

[Addison Rae]

Yeah not making that Jeff Carter deal - along with Sedin getting hurt probably cost us a cup in 2012. Outside of LA that would have been one of the easiest cup runs in NHL history.

f*** you Duncan Keith

 

[Hansen]

hindsight

 

[Hammer79]

This thread is certainly a good counter-argument to over-valuing your picks. We wasted two elite players prime so we could draft at the end of the first round.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

The Canucks were the best team in the NHL in 2010-2011. The Sedins has plenty of on ice help. Not much you can do when you’re playing against a team (the Bruins), the refs, the league, and the media.

 

[moog35]

Maybe our captain Henrik could have gotten more than 1 point in 7 games of the Stanley Cup finals if he had more help.....

 

[FreeMcdavid]

hindsight

yes but maybe we can NOT do the same thing this time around with our franchise players and actually use draft picks as assets and surround them and give them multiple cracks at the cup.

 

[Nucker101]

Obviously paying for Carter would’ve been massive, but as for TDL’s, I think people forget how much of a seller’s market it was back then. I remember when the likes of Tim Gleason, Zenon Kanopka(sp?) and Paul Gaustad were considered to be among the top prizes available at the TDL lol

 

[RobertKron]

Exactly, and look how that turned out.

We ended up with scrub prospects and no playoff success outside of 2011 to show for it.

Imagine if we traded our 2011 1st rnd pick at the deadline and given the Sedins any help with whatever that would have fetched. Instead we keep the pick and we draft Niclas Jensen!

Didn't that team have like 42 cents in cap space?