Why didn't Denis Savard ever play in the Canada Cup?

[ChiefWiggum]

Dude was amazing. What was up?

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[Hackett]

Dude was amazing. What was up?

I'm not sure for the exact reason, but I do recall a game involving the Hawks and oilers in the 80s where Savard got in a shouting match with sather. Savard ended up making an obscene gesture with his stick towards sather.

Sather was involved with team Canada in those days so while I'm not exactly sure why Savard didn't make it, it does seem that the decision caused some friction.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'm not sure for the exact reason, but I do recall a game involving the Hawks and oilers in the 80s where Savard got in a shouting match with sather. Savard ended up making an obscene gesture with his stick towards sather.

Sather was involved with team Canada in those days so while I'm not exactly sure why Savard didn't make it, it does seem that the decision caused some friction.

There were better centremen.

 

[Hackett]

There were better centremen.

It's the most logical explanation. I never saw savard in his prime, but he seemed like a living highlight reel offensively. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are the most rounded player.

Team Canada has always had really good players miss the team. It still happens today, and savard fell into that group in the 80s.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Same reason Steve Yzerman didn't play until the second half of his career. Gretzky and Messier were locks as the top 2, then they wanted better rounded players to play 3rd/4th line or wing. For whatever reason, Hawerchuk was trusted more to convert to wing than Savard or Yzerman

 

[Uncle Rotter]

I'm not sure for the exact reason, but I do recall a game involving the Hawks and oilers in the 80s where Savard got in a shouting match with sather. Savard ended up making an obscene gesture with his stick towards sather.

Sather was involved with team Canada in those days so while I'm not exactly sure why Savard didn't make it, it does seem that the decision caused some friction.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah, the Sather-Savard jousting was mainly in the 1985 playoffs, which is a year after Canada Cup '84. (However, the Hawks did get swept by Edmonton in '83.)

Pure skill through four-lines wasn't necessarily sought in those days. Coaches wanted some grinders and some checkers. Since Savard clearly wasn't as good as Gretzky (or Mario later), and since he was small to boot, he didn't quite make it, I guess.

The real crazy omission was Yzerman in '87 and '91.

 

[Bluesguru]

There were better centremen.

Competition at that time was insane. Incredible talent back then to choose from.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

and yet ironically, peter stastny played for team canada once

 

[Uncle Rotter]

and yet ironically, peter stastny played for team canada once

His play was so underwhelming that the joke at the time was that he was working as a Czech agent.

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

Dude was amazing. What was up?

Savard was cut in 1984 and didn't make the final roster.
He played in 5 pre-tournament games, having 3 assists.

15/8 USA 4-5 - Bellows (Savard, Gretzky) (PP)
20/8 USA 4-1 - Wilson (Savard, Bre. Sutter)
23/8 USA 2-2 - Tonelli (Wilson, Savard)

Aside from Savard the following players were cut in 1984:

J.Patrick
A.Stastny
Vaive
Secord
S.Stevens
Bri.Sutter
S.Turgeon
Marois

 

[tjcurrie]

Comparable to Tyler Seguin being left off so far in his career (Though I know he was selected for last year's World Cup)

 

[Eye of Ra]

Same reason Steve Yzerman didn't play until the second half of his career. Gretzky and Messier were locks as the top 2, then they wanted better rounded players to play 3rd/4th line or wing. For whatever reason, Hawerchuk was trusted more to convert to wing than Savard or Yzerman

Why was Messier a lock? Just looking at stats it seems that Savard is the superior player. Savard could take care of the 2C and Messier doing his work on 3C or 4C.

 

[angrymnky]

Why was Messier a lock? Just looking at stats it seems that Savard is the superior player. Savard could take care of the 2C and Messier doing his work on 3C or 4C.

He needs to pass Hawerchuk first.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Why was Messier a lock? Just looking at stats it seems that Savard is the superior player. Savard could take care of the 2C and Messier doing his work on 3C or 4C.

New to the whole hockey thing or just pulling our leg?

Can't determine the superior player by stats alone. Though it seems understandable by the way many awards are handed out now.

 

[Jets4Life]

Same reason Steve Yzerman didn't play until the second half of his career. Gretzky and Messier were locks as the top 2, then they wanted better rounded players to play 3rd/4th line or wing. For whatever reason, Hawerchuk was trusted more to convert to wing than Savard or Yzerman

Hawerchuk was the superior player at the time. Look at his totals from 1984-88. Especially when you consider he had little help in the way of talented linemates. If you ever watch the Canada Cup 87' Hawerchuk was a big reason the Canadians came through and won the tournament. It was the pinnacle of his career.

 

[tjcurrie]

Same reason Steve Yzerman didn't play until the second half of his career. Gretzky and Messier were locks as the top 2, then they wanted better rounded players to play 3rd/4th line or wing. For whatever reason, Hawerchuk was trusted more to convert to wing than Savard or Yzerman

Yzerman was on that 1984 Canada Cup team

 

[Eye of Ra]

He needs to pass Hawerchuk first.

What makes Hawerchuk better than Savard?

New to the whole hockey thing or just pulling our leg?

Can't determine the superior player by stats alone. Though it seems understandable by the way many awards are handed out now.

Savard was the superior player for offence and should have the 2C where he would thrive. Messier being more all-round and less skilled would be a better fit as 3C or 4C.

 

[Moose Head]

When Trottier elected not to play in 84, that should have been Savards spot, not Stastnys. I really liked Stastny, but just stupid he was able to play for Canada in that Tournament ahead of some really good Canadian players, especially Savard, Dionne and Federko.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

What makes Hawerchuk better than Savard?



Savard was the superior player for offence and should have the 2C where he would thrive. Messier being more all-round and less skilled would be a better fit as 3C or 4C.

There wasn't a single Canada Cup year that Savard was coming off a better offensive season than Messier.

 

[The Panther]

Savard was the superior player for offence...

During their career overlap:

Messier: 1519 PTS
Savard: 1338 PTS

Messier: 1.27 PPG
Savard: 1.12 PPG

Even in the 80s alone, they're nearly identical in production (Savard 1.38; Messier 1.30) and remember that Messier played most of that decade as the 2nd-line winger / 2nd-center.

Then, factor in physical play and intangibles, and Messier destroys Savard in every conceivable way.

(Savard was damn fun to watch, though -- wish we had more players like him now.)

 

[Eye of Ra]

During their career overlap:

Messier: 1519 PTS
Savard: 1338 PTS

Messier: 1.27 PPG
Savard: 1.12 PPG

Even in the 80s alone, they're nearly identical in production (Savard 1.38; Messier 1.30) and remember that Messier played most of that decade as the 2nd-line winger / 2nd-center.

Then, factor in physical play and intangibles, and Messier destroys Savard in every conceivable way.

(Savard was damn fun to watch, though -- wish we had more players like him now.)

oh i see...

but i still think Savard would fit better as a 2C, he was never a guy for bottom 6. Messier on the other hand could do a nice job as 3C due to his allround-skills.

 

[Rhiessan71]

When Trottier elected not to play in 84, that should have been Savards spot, not Stastnys. I really liked Stastny, but just stupid he was able to play for Canada in that Tournament ahead of some really good Canadian players, especially Savard, Dionne and Federko.

Trots did play, just not for Canada...

 

[MXD]

oh i see...

but i still think Savard would fit better as a 2C, he was never a guy for bottom 6. Messier on the other hand could do a nice job as 3C due to his allround-skills.

... what?

 

[The Panther]

Yzerman was on that 1984 Canada Cup team

What a joke that Yzerman was on the '84 team, but was cut from the '87 and '91 teams. There's just no excuse for that.