Why did Winnipeg build the MTS Centre to only 15,015 seats?

[MoreOrr]

Danishh, Brodie and a couple others provided perfectly logical answers.

So I'll reiterate what they said...it makes no sense to have an arena much larger than 15,000 in Winnipeg.

So, essentially they're saying that Winnipeg is barely more than a minor league city.

 

[MoreOrr]

Like others have mentioned, it's much better to play in an artificially small arena. It keeps tickets relatively scarce and contributes to the "allure" of going to a game. There wasn't really any sense in spending tons of money and upkeep to have an 18,000 seat arena where it wouldn't be at capacity for the AHL.

The chances of the NHL coming back when that arena was built were minimal. Business people don't operate on pipedreams (generally).

I mean, come on, at least 16 or 17 thousand. Rather than the smallest minimally acceptable NHL size arena on the entire continent.

 

[seanlinden]

I mean, come on, at least 16 or 17 thousand. Rather than the smallest acceptable NHL size arena in the entire league.

Why? They're building an AHL arena designed to also accomodate major concerts and such. 15,000 was problably pushing it to begin with -- they only average about 8,200 fans this year.

 

[BlamBlam]

Who cares? 15,000 is double what some some certain teams are drawing and they'll be able to charge 10x the price.

 

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

So, essentially they're saying that Winnipeg is barely more than a minor league city.

It's 3000 less than edmonton.

 

[kdb209]

From the horse's mouth:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/special/nhl/faq/

Isn't the MTS Centre too small to host an NHL team?

With a seating capacity of 15,003 for hockey, the MTS Centre would be by far the smallest arena in the NHL. The smallest right now is Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum (New York Islanders), which holds 16,234. But True North types have done the math and they believe the smaller seating capacity here fits the market and may actually help more than hurt them. That’s because they believe a smaller capacity will create ‘scarcity’ for tickets that will drive the sale of mini–packs and season ticket packages from fans worried that they will get ‘shut out’ if they wait around for individual tickets to go on sale.

"I think it's very suitable because its suitable for our market. The building's got to fit your market. If there's one thing I've learned in the past 15 years, if your supply far outstrips your demand, it's a slippery slope, it's a very difficult business to be in."

- Mark Chipman from TSN interview in Why Not Canada? series

Could the MTS Centre be expanded for more seating and how long could it take?

Not happening.

"We might even lose a few for camera positions. Adding seats can't be done. It's not physically possible. We can't take the roof off. Any building improvements will not include the addition of any seats. The NHL likes the building. In discussions we've had with the league in the past few years, size has never been a concern. We have always thought the building is the right size for the market. Our ability to add a couple thousand seats would produce revenue that would not be material, given the ticket prices, and moreover, it would make it more difficult to sell committed season-ticket revenue that will ultimately determine the success of any team."

— True North Chairman Mark Chipman

Chipman has also commented (to paraphrase) - those extra 3K seats cost you the most to build and generate the least revenue.

 

[missinthejets]

How many people have asked that question... There never seems to be a logical answer. It's as if they built it only to accommodate a minor league team. With no other logical explanation, they should almost only ever have a minor league team until they eventually build another arena.

You really have to understand the way Winnipeg is to understand why the arena is the size that it is. Getting the damned thing built in the first place was like pulling teeth, the only way it would get done would be to put it in the location it's in and it's not a huge location to start with, they built it as big as the space would allow.

 

[King Woodballs]

Economics is your simple answer
Dont build too big so you can keep demand higher then supply
Like previously stated 15k full is better then 18k with 9k in it

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I enjoy watching games in Atlanta and Phoenix and seeing 5000 people in the building.


It is a good thing they build such large arenas in those cities they must be making money hand over fist right?

 

[IdealisticSniper]

Its a pretty simple answer. So they can fill it to capacity and call it sell outs with 15K people so then canadian fans can ***** and moan about southern markets that cant even sell out when they have arenas that are 19k+ for capacity and are bringing in 16-18K on average.

Seriously. Thats exactly why.

 

[vezna*]

Its a pretty simple answer. So they can fill it to capacity and call it sell outs with 15K people so then canadian fans can ***** and moan about southern markets that cant even sell out when they have arenas that are 19k+ for capacity and are bringing in 16-18K on average.

Seriously. Thats exactly why.

yeah i'm sure the 3000 extra seats is what's causing those teams to go bankrupt. "seriously"

 

[IdealisticSniper]

Economics is your simple answer
Dont build too big so you can keep demand higher then supply
Like previously stated 15k full is better then 18k with 9k in it

That makes absolutely zero sense. If you are going to be full with a 15K seat arena, where do those 6K fans go that wanted to watch the game when the arena size expands to 18K? Do they get angry that they will have a little leg room and not show up to the game?

Supply and demand is for pricing, not for population. The smaller arena size creates demand for tickets which will increase the price of said tickets. Increased arena size will still bring in the fans that wanted to go when it was 15K seats available, they will just be able to go for a bit cheaper because there are more available. However this also creates the ability for people that were priced out of the 15K arena seats and couldnt go, to be able to afford the tickets and be able to go to the 18K seat arena to watch the game. So really if there is demand for HOCKEY, the 18K seat arena is a much better choice economically. If they can sell out an 18K seat arena they can still create the demand for the tickets and therefore set their prices a bit higher, now if they DONT have the hockey demand...well.....

 

[IdealisticSniper]

yeah i'm sure the 3000 extra seats is what's causing those teams to go bankrupt. "seriously"

First of all...what? What you just said doesnt have anything to do with what I said.

Second of all...do I really need to add the to a post like that? Even though it does have some truth to it.

 

[masterquan14]

when the nhl comes back,mark this post they will expand the mts center,book it.

 

[Dirty Dan]

Do you know how big a d-bag he is?

Hamilton would already have a team if the guy didn't try and bully his way into the league.

Anyways, I'm sure the arena can be renovated, otherwise why would there be so much interest?

Dosen't matter if hes a d-bag when he can buy YOU

 

[masterquan14]

You've nailed it.

The only mistake I feel 'Winnipeg' made was building the MTS Centre on a cramped downtown city block. I still maintain they should have built it at the Forks, which is right downtown but has much more available space, parking etc. Also would've allowed them to build a larger arena in terms of square feet; concourses and leg room at MTSC aren't terrible, but they could be better. Alas, I don't think the Forks site fit in with the concept of downtown revitalization.

this completely,i couldnt understand the downtown thing either

 

[masterquan14]

In a market like Winnipeg, you don't bring in an NHL franchise.

Winnipeg loves hockey, but Winnipeggers also love feeding their kids and having heat in the winter. Things are better than they were in the 90s, but it's not all sugar and rainbows on Portage all of a sudden. Winnipeggers cannot afford the kind of prices you find in other Canadian cities, not for long. Once the shine is gone, the team is going to find themselves in the same kind of financial straits Sun Belt teams are in, and unlike those teams, there is basically no chance of longterm growth. Atlanta is unpopular, but due to the market, there is the potential for growth that there simply is not in Winnipeg. But with Winnipeg, the money you make in year 3 is going to be the same as you make in year 20, adjusting for inflation.

And guaranteed, unless the Canadian dollar jumps ahead of the American, a Winnipeg team cannot play to the cap. And if you're not playing to the cap, any success is going to come in spite of yourself. Imagine Nashville without Barry Trotz. They'd be the Islanders.

your a winnipeger...disgrace,oh by the way the canadian dollar is stronger as of today

 

[kris]

Any team in Winnepeg HAS to be named the Jets.

 

[vezna*]

First of all...what? What you just said doesnt have anything to do with what I said.

Second of all...do I really need to add the to a post like that? Even though it does have some truth to it.

canadians laugh at the southern markets who can't fill up their arenas because they're going bankrupt, while some markets here can easily fill those seats. if those arenas were at 90% capacity, they wouldn't be bankrupt

 

[IdealisticSniper]

canadians laugh at the southern markets who can't fill up their arenas because they're going bankrupt, while some markets here can easily fill those seats. if those arenas were at 90% capacity, they wouldn't be bankrupt

Did I say those markets? No I didnt. I said the southern markets that average 90% capacity but cant call them sell outs. So yeah, your comment is putting words into my mouth and bringing up teams that I wasnt even talking about.

 

[vezna*]

Did I say those markets? No I didnt. I said the southern markets that average 90% capacity but cant call them sell outs. So yeah, your comment is putting words into my mouth and bringing up teams that I wasnt even talking about.

oh sorry, didn't know you were nitpicking and ignoring atlanta, florida and nashville. guess those don't count as southern markets, silly me.

 

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

Dosen't matter if hes a d-bag when he can buy YOU

Yes it does. As stated he's alienated the NHL. He'll never get a franchise.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Chipman has also commented (to paraphrase) - those extra 3K seats cost you the most to build and generate the least revenue.

interesting... never thought about it that way. makes sense

 

[vezna*]

Yes it does. As stated he's alienated the NHL. He'll never get a franchise.

you honestly think that the NHL can prevent a person from bidding because they don't like him? didn't know the free market doesn't exist in the NHL

 

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

you honestly think that the NHL can prevent a person from bidding because they don't like him? didn't know the free market doesn't exist in the NHL

You can't refuse to sell someone something in the free market? I didn't know that either.