Why did the Blackhawks trade Panarin?

[piteus]

DeBrincat is getting way more than Larkin money. Larkin money is about what Schmaltz will get. DCat is getting at least 7.5M.

Nylander is asking for $8mn. The Leafs aren't budging. The Nylander negotiations might be a good benchmark.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

DeBrincat is getting way more than Larkin money. Larkin money is about what Schmaltz will get. DCat is getting at least 7.5M.

Yep, and he has two seasons to male that number climb.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Fair point. Ugh ... that Seabrook contract makes me mad. I like Seabrook. I just hate his contract.

Ya, I think I’d asked Schmaltz vs Panarin in the past due to this.

If you signed Panarin next summer, I think you’d need to move Schmaltz’ RFA rights, or keep him for the first year of his new deal then move him when DeBrincat’s deal kicks in.

Is Schmaltz more helpful to Kane in the short and long term, or is Panarin?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Lazerus spoke with Greg Gilbert about Saad. Gilbert coached Saad in his final OHL season.

From today’s Athletic article:

“When he’s had success, he’s played like he wants to be an influence on the ice, like he wants to be the difference,” Gilbert said. “Now when you watch him a little bit, there’s spurts of that — spurts where he starts to take control — but they’re very few and very far between. He’s at his best when he’s a real dominant player and forces himself on the opposition. What we’re seeing now is, he’s too often playing on the outside and not doing what got him that contract in the first place. You can’t step away from how you are, or what makes you an effective player, just because of the contract. You’ve got to perform night in and night out.”

“You have to address it sometimes,” Gilbert said. “You don’t have to yell and scream. That’s not what happens anymore, anyway. It’s about taking a guy aside and having a coffee and getting him to look at himself in the mirror. It could be a confidence thing — he hasn’t played that way in so long that he might not feel the confidence is there. But ultimately, it comes down to the player doing what he’s shown he can do and performing the way he’s shown he can perform. Once he shows you how good he can be and that he can be an effective player night in and night out, he’s written you a contract. And when a player gets away from it, you have to hold that player to that contract. It’s not the money contract they both signed. It’s the contract that he put in front of the coach saying, ‘I’ll be an impact player night in and night out.’”

“You’ve got to take the bull by the horns again,” Gilbert said. “I know he’s not expected to be a leader there with Jonathan Toews and the other guys, but you can still be a leader by playing the right way, night in and night out. He’s proven he’s capable of doing that. But it’s all about getting it out of him again. If he does get it back again, watch out.”

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Lazerus spoke with Greg Gilbert about Saad. Gilbert coached Saad in his final OHL season.

From today’s Athletic article:

“When he’s had success, he’s played like he wants to be an influence on the ice, like he wants to be the difference,” Gilbert said. “Now when you watch him a little bit, there’s spurts of that — spurts where he starts to take control — but they’re very few and very far between. He’s at his best when he’s a real dominant player and forces himself on the opposition. What we’re seeing now is, he’s too often playing on the outside and not doing what got him that contract in the first place. You can’t step away from how you are, or what makes you an effective player, just because of the contract. You’ve got to perform night in and night out.”

“You have to address it sometimes,” Gilbert said. “You don’t have to yell and scream. That’s not what happens anymore, anyway. It’s about taking a guy aside and having a coffee and getting him to look at himself in the mirror. It could be a confidence thing — he hasn’t played that way in so long that he might not feel the confidence is there. But ultimately, it comes down to the player doing what he’s shown he can do and performing the way he’s shown he can perform. Once he shows you how good he can be and that he can be an effective player night in and night out, he’s written you a contract. And when a player gets away from it, you have to hold that player to that contract. It’s not the money contract they both signed. It’s the contract that he put in front of the coach saying, ‘I’ll be an impact player night in and night out.’”

“You’ve got to take the bull by the horns again,” Gilbert said. “I know he’s not expected to be a leader there with Jonathan Toews and the other guys, but you can still be a leader by playing the right way, night in and night out. He’s proven he’s capable of doing that. But it’s all about getting it out of him again. If he does get it back again, watch out.”

There’s also this tidbit in the article, which I didn’t realize:

With that in mind, it was a bit eyebrow-raising that Saad was one of just three players (Cam Ward and Mr. 1,000 Games, Duncan Keith, were the other) who took the option and sat out Saturday’s morning skate. It was an optional skate; he had every right to take the morning off. But it’s an interesting choice when you’re trying to crawl out of the coach’s doghouse.

 

[Blackhawks]

Not having Panarin this year is a huge missed opportunity, with Toews playing like the old Toews, Kane is the usual Kane, the rise of Cat and Shmaltz, Panarin would have been that icing on the cake to give the Hawks one of the most potent offenses. I dont want to get ahead of myself ofcourse and hoping this trend will continue, but this trade is just destructive unless somehow Saad ends up scoring around 30 goals this year and 60 points which it doesnt seem to be possible. With Panarin on this team they score another 30 goals easily as a unit which is HUGE.

 

[Flahawkfan]

I remember the trade a little different:

Panarin disappeared in the Nashville sweep and many pointed out our "Stars" did not show up for that series.
Hossa announced his skin issues that week
Panarin was traded for Saad as Saad was expected to be "little Hossa"
Also bringing back Saad was to get Toews going again.
Stan also talked about cap certainty.

Am I missing anything? Very few complained about the trade, as there seemed to be a big discussion would Panarin continue to be as good without Kane.

I surely don't remember many people complaining about this trade. As Saad has continued to struggle, revisionist history may have changed the outcome of the trade. I am not calling anyone out as a few may have said this was a bad trade, but as I recall most understood it and thought the rational was acceptable.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Panarin disappeared in the playoffs like every other Blackhawk. That should not be used as a slight against one individual when everyone else was the exact same way.

 

[Blackhawks]

I remember the trade a little different:

Panarin disappeared in the Nashville sweep and many pointed out our "Stars" did not show up for that series.
Hossa announced his skin issues that week
Panarin was traded for Saad as Saad was expected to be "little Hossa"
Also bringing back Saad was to get Toews going again.
Stan also talked about cap certainty.

Am I missing anything? Very few complained about the trade, as there seemed to be a big discussion would Panarin continue to be as good without Kane.

I surely don't remember many people complaining about this trade. As Saad has continued to struggle, revisionist history may have changed the outcome of the trade. I am not calling anyone out as a few may have said this was a bad trade, but as I recall most understood it and thought the rational was acceptable.

This is pretty spot on, as I have said earlier very few people complained at the time. The entire team disapeared in the Nashville series but you are right as that was still used against Panarin as an argument to justify the trade.

 

[BK]

This is pretty spot on, as I have said earlier very few people complained at the time. The entire team disapeared in the Nashville series but you are right as that was still used against Panarin as an argument to justify the trade.

It was a terrible justification (playoffs disappearance). The cost certainty, Toews jumpstart, Hossa replacement, etc were valid reasons but as of now Saad has been bad. If we end up resigning AP then it all worked out but I would rather go after Stone personally.

 

[Sarava]

As others said, he disappeared in the playoffs like everyone else. I think the bigger issue is his game regressed in his second season here. He was turning in to a perimeter player like Kane, which didn't suit hiss strengths, nor did it suit the Blackhawks.

Has it bombed out? Obviously. But most of us were fine with the trade at the time, including myself. I thought Saad would be better than he has been when coming back here.

 

[Blackhawks]

It was a terrible justification (playoffs disappearance). The cost certainty, Toews jumpstart, Hossa replacement, etc were valid reasons but as of now Saad has been bad. If we end up resigning AP then it all worked out but I would rather go after Stone personally.

No if they resign Panarin it wouldn’t all workout. Reason being is that Chicago lost out on two years of elite production for a small price of 6M and now the price goes up while other players need to be signed, the Hawks missed out on a golden opportunity to maybe do something great this year with Panarin. One more problem is that you still have a hefty 2 years left on Saad’s contract while having to give Panarin minimum 8M next year and signing Shmaltz, cap issues have been magnified if anything...

 

[TheSting]

Imagine this team with Panarin, Cat and Kane on the same line.

OMG!! FIRE STAN NOW!!!!

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Imagine this team with Panarin, Cat and Kane on the same line.

OMG!! FIRE STAN NOW!!!!

Is that sarcasm? I can’t tell, but I do know none of those three are centers, so that wouldn’t be a line.

 

[TheSting]

Is that sarcasm? I can’t tell, but I do know none of those three are centers, so that wouldn’t be a line.

3 on 3 OT hockey + Power Play unit = FIRE STAN NOW!!!

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I still stand by the idea that the Saad of 2017 at four years for the Panarin of 2017 at two years was still a fundamentally solid and understandable trade, especially given the impetus behind it to replace Hossa with a mini-Hossa, but no denying that a year and change in it has looked very bad due to Saad regressing massively. We can only hope at this point for some sort of bounceback to make the next two+ years more manageable, especially given the fact that we likely wouldn't be able to afford Panarin's next contract regardless.

That being said, if Panarin comes back to Chicago and we have them both on the roster, Bowman gets credit for ninth dimensional chess grandmaster.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I still stand by the idea that the Saad of 2017 at four years for the Panarin of 2017 at two years was still a fundamentally solid and understandable trade, especially given the impetus behind it to replace Hossa with a mini-Hossa, but no denying that a year and change in it has looked very bad due to Saad regressing massively. We can only hope at this point for some sort of bounceback to make the next two+ years more manageable, especially given the fact that we likely wouldn't be able to afford Panarin's next contract regardless.

That being said, if Panarin comes back to Chicago and we have them both on the roster, Bowman gets credit for ninth dimensional chess grandmaster.

After re-signing Schmaltz, I’d sign Panarin for a year with all our remaining cap space and with no promise of a long term deal to follow. I’d move Murphy, Manning, and maybe Anisimov and dedicate that money, on top of space already available, to a very inflated 1 year deal.

1 year at $12 million? It’s ridiculous money, but you’re not giving him long term certainty.

It can work next year because you’ll have a first liner and two top-4 d-men on ELCs with DeBrincat, Joki, and Boqvist.

Next year is basically your only chance to make a move like that, so I’d swing for the fence as hard as I could.

 

[BK]

No if they resign Panarin it wouldn’t all workout. Reason being is that Chicago lost out on two years of elite production for a small price of 6M and now the price goes up while other players need to be signed, the Hawks missed out on a golden opportunity to maybe do something great this year with Panarin. One more problem is that you still have a hefty 2 years left on Saad’s contract while having to give Panarin minimum 8M next year and signing Shmaltz, cap issues have been magnified if anything...

Except last year this team was not a playoff team so they missed nothing. Panarin doesn’t push last years team into the playoff or make them a contender.

 

[BK]

3 on 3 OT hockey + Power Play unit = FIRE STAN NOW!!!

What are you talking about?

 

[ChiHawks10]

What are you talking about?

Panarin, Cat, and Kane on the ice for the very limited amount of 3 on 3 time in a season, and that being justification to fire Stan. Nevermind not having a D on the ice in 3 on 3 OT. Who needs those guys? Because Panarin makes a 3 on 3 OT line "wicked sick brah".

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Panarin, Cat, and Kane on the ice for the very limited amount of 3 on 3 time in a season, and that being justification to fire Stan. Nevermind not having a D on the ice in 3 on 3 OT. Who needs those guys? Because Panarin makes a 3 on 3 OT line "wicked sick brah".

Ya, that’s where I gave up interacting.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Hawks brass probably thought Cat and Panarin bring a similar skill set and they had no Hossa replacement and Saad played a comparable game

 

[Rolo]

DeBrincat is getting way more than Larkin money. Larkin money is about what Schmaltz will get. DCat is getting at least 7.5M.

No he won't - theres more to hockey then just points and goals. Debrincat is great, probably my favourite Blackhawk to watch, but he doesn't offer much in the D-zone and doesn't kill penalties.

Pastrnak got 6.6M...

 

[RememberTheRoar]

No he won't - theres more to hockey then just points and goals. Debrincat is great, probably my favourite Blackhawk to watch, but he doesn't offer much in the D-zone and doesn't kill penalties.

Pastrnak got 6.6M...

DeBrincat scored more in his first season than Pastrnak did in his first two, so DeBrincat is already trending higher than Pastrnak.

If DeBrincat doesn’t slow down, he could match Pastrnak’s 34 goal, 70 point season this year. Pastrnak didn’t do that until year three of his ELC, so DeBrincat could have an additional year of putting up big numbers, and that obviously means a bigger contract.

I think we’re already almost to the point where Pastrnak’s contract is the floor of what DeBrincat could get.

We could get lucky, and he takes less, but I don’t think we should count on it.

 

[chrispw1]

At the time the trade was made there was the thought that Panarin wouldn't be nearly as good without Kane but that didn't turn out to be the case.